Integrated Kopernicus Editor

[Chibbob]

I have always wanted to create a few ksp planets, but I find that the learning curve of kopernicus prevents me from achieving anything. So an idea would be to have an integrated editor, where the only thing you would have to do manually is creating the textures for the system. There should be an array of options that set the properties of the planet, with a view of the body you are making - similar to the map view in flight. You would also skip the process of constantly opening and closing the game to see the results.

To visualise this, I created an incredibly rough design of what this could look like if implemented:

I'm not suggesting a procedural planet editor like space engine, but instead an understandable UI that visualises the whole process.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Chibbob

[The Aziz]

Well, it ain't gonna be much simpler than it is in Kopernicus. Planets in 2 use the same, though largely updated system for planet building. More on that here: https://youtu.be/wnQP5dhxlKU?t=562

There's a lot more than just a texture and heightmap. There's some procedural generation but most of the larger features are handcrafted.

All in all we got to wait how easy it is to actually mod in planets once the game is out and tools are available.

[Chibbob]

47 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Well, it ain't gonna be much simpler than it is in Kopernicus. Planets in 2 use the same, though largely updated system for planet building. More on that here: https://youtu.be/wnQP5dhxlKU?t=562

There's a lot more than just a texture and heightmap. There's some procedural generation but most of the larger features are handcrafted.

All in all we got to wait how easy it is to actually mod in planets once the game is out and tools are available.

However complicated it ends up being, at least if it was implemented you would be able to see what you were doing. There could be a simplified version for quickly creating a celestial body, but you could also open the config to set specific parameters.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Chibbob

[pandaman]

Do not  under estimate the time, skill and 'vision' needed to create interesting planets (or anything actually), especially on the scale and detail level KSP2  needs.  Even with efficient and 'easy to use' software.

Any worthwhile creative software naturally has its learning curve.  It's only ever 'easy' when you get familiar with how it works.

[Chibbob]

1 hour ago, pandaman said:

 

Do not  under estimate the time, skill and 'vision' needed to create interesting planets (or anything actually), especially on the scale and detail level KSP2  needs.  Even with efficient and 'easy to use' software.

Any worthwhile creative software naturally has its learning curve.  It's only ever 'easy' when you get familiar with how it works.

 

Fine, fine. I guess you would have the whole config on one part of the screen but you will be able to see the object change when you type things in.

[mattinoz]

3 hours ago, pandaman said:

Do not  under estimate the time, skill and 'vision' needed to create interesting planets (or anything actually), especially on the scale and detail level KSP2  needs.  Even with efficient and 'easy to use' software.

Any worthwhile creative software naturally has its learning curve.  It's only ever 'easy' when you get familiar with how it works.

Sure as long as we at the same time don't underestimate the time skill and vision of KSPs community content creators and their willingness to share tip tricks learnings with each other and interested newcomers.

The free publicity alone from foresting the community would sure cover maintenance and improvements of a tool that is used in house anyway.

[Bej Kerman]

7 hours ago, Chibbob said:

Fine, fine. I guess you would have the whole config on one part of the screen but you will be able to see the object change when you type things in.

They're just saying, an easy-to-use UI doesn't at all affect the skill curve you bring up in your post. That much is evident from Portal 2's puzzle designer. Doesn't matter if someone uses the in-game puzzle designer or a level editor like Hammer, they still have to put the same thought into the basic concept they are building their puzzle off. Same will apply for planets.

That being said, I think this would be a good way to bring custom planets to console. Console players are missing out otherwise.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Bej Kerman
bring *custom* planets

[Chibbob]

43 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

They're just saying, an easy-to-use UI doesn't at all affect the skill curve you bring up in your post. That much is evident from Portal 2's puzzle designer. Doesn't matter if someone uses the in-game puzzle designer or a level editor like Hammer, they still have to put the same thought into the basic concept they are building their puzzle off. Same will apply for planets.

That being said, I think this would be a good way to bring custom planets to console. Console players are missing out otherwise.

Maybe better resources to help users understand the system in place will decrease the learning curve involved. Similar to the inbuilt ksp2 tutorials that are meant to actually be good unlike the first game. Maybe it still requires the same skill and thought as normal kopernicus but the efficiency of the process will be an improvement and will possibly lead to better planet packs for ksp2 (kind of like hammer++ that skips the process of waiting for the game to load to see the final result). My original idea was to not allow modders to be lazy, but instead introduce a system that changes something that requires technological skill to something that requires creativity and imagination.

The console idea is something I had never thought of before, but it is a good idea in general.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Chibbob

[Bej Kerman]

8 minutes ago, Chibbob said:

Maybe better resources to help users understand the system in place will decrease the learning curve involved. Similar to the inbuilt ksp2 tutorials that are meant to actually be good unlike the first game. Maybe it still requires the same skill and thought as normal kopernicus but the efficiency of the process will be an improvement and will possibly lead to better planet packs for ksp2 (kind of like hammer++ that skips the process of waiting for the game to load to see the final result). My original idea was to not allow modders to be lazy, but instead introduce a system that changes something that requires technological skill to something that requires creativity and imagination.

The console idea is something I had never thought of before, but it is a good idea in general.

I think a good compromise would just be for the game to reload the planets straight from their associated files when you ask it to. You don't have to sink time into relaunching the game whenever anything changes, which can be annoying even for programs that load quickly (like SpaceEngine). The UI you have on top of all that is just sugarcoating for people who otherwise would be discouraged by configs and editing maps - it doesn't make the learning curve any easier, it just gets them to start climbing and reduces the time they spend thinking about how big the climb is. The sole benefit I can see for an in-game UI editor is the ability to account for projection distortion near the poles of whatever planet you're creating terrain for. And console accessibility, maybe.

[pandaman]

I don't think 'in game' is the right approach.

A self contained dedicated 'planet builder' DLC would be better IMO.  You would also set the 'parent' star/planet/moon etc and the orbital parameters in the builder.

All the game then needs is an integrated importer.

 

[Chibbob]

2 hours ago, pandaman said:

I don't think 'in game' is the right approach.

A self contained dedicated 'planet builder' DLC would be better IMO.

I’m not sure whether you mean paid DLC or just free downloadable content, but I’m assuming you mean the latter (presuming that Ksp2 will stick to their promise of no paid DLC). This would be a good idea as people who don’t want the planet editor can just decide not to download the content.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Chibbob
Whoops…

[Bej Kerman]

9 minutes ago, Chibbob said:

I was imagining the planet editor to be a separate option when opening up the game, the same as space engine.

I don't understand?

SpaceEngine's planet editor is integrated into the game.

[Chibbob]

47 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I don't understand?

SpaceEngine's planet editor is integrated into the game.

Yeah I guess, not sure what I was thinking… 

[shdwlrd]

1 hour ago, Chibbob said:

 (presuming that Ksp2 will stick to their promise of no paid DLC).

This is a very dangerous statement. Free DLC's was never promised. The only promised free downloads are for the current roadmap items and bug fixes/updates. All other DLC we should expect to be paid unless said otherwise.

Free modding tools may come along, but we should expect them to be minimal at best. We can hope that they are full featured and easy to use.

[pandaman]

2 hours ago, Chibbob said:

I’m not sure whether you mean paid DLC or just free downloadable content, but I’m assuming you mean the latter (presuming that Ksp2 will stick to their promise of no paid DLC).

I meant as a self contained DLC, and most likely paid because, as @shdwlrd points out above, no promises of free DLC for KSP2 was ever made.

It should be a completely separate entity from the game itself.  Designing planets that are interesting enough to be worth having would be a time consuming task that is not part of normal gameplay.   Once built they can be imported into the game either by saving to a dedicated folder (similar to Flags or Craft in KSP1) or through an import option on game startup.

[NexustheNinja19]

This would be awesome, But I'd rather it be an external app. I can only really think of Roblox studio rn lol, But thats kinda what I mean. You dont build it ingame but instead in another app.

[Gurkonier]

It seems like, there could be an editor in the game. At least there was a menu point "Create Planets" in the debug menu shown by EJ_SA.