Week One Adventures

[TheArturro]

Just now, BmB said:

Sure it has.

Please provide an example then.

[BmB]

I did.

[TheArturro]

1 minute ago, BmB said:

I did.

Provide an example of a situation in which rushing devs DID help. Not your ideas of KSP development.

Though I sympathize with your thinking, software development is illogical to people not involved with it.

[svistuilkin]

Hello everyone!

I understand that the game has more important problems that need to be solved, but I have one question that worries me very much: will the game support the 21:9 format, like the first part? It's just that I have a widescreen monitor and playing at 16:9 is just hell for me.

[thewhitemetroid]

It would be a good exercise right now to drop all preconceived notions about this situation and take a moment to look at this from the dev point of view. Or better yet lets say Nate Simpson's. Pretend that he has absolute control over when and how the patch is released (he doesn't but pretend). His reputation and career (not pretend) are on the chopping block here. If this goes south on him, his professional career could be in serious jeopardy even ruined by this. It is in his best interest to do what is the absolute best thing for this game which absolutely does not include a "Mwuhahahahahaha...I'll show those stupid gamers, I'm gonna promise them the world but give them a steaming pile of....Mwuhahahahahaha"! Now pull the curtain back and apply that across the entire team. Everyone has skin in this game and their reputations are on the line, T2's included. Why do you think they just went through a round of layoffs, underperformance naturally. There is no doubt in my mind having spent my life in the world of large projects in the engineering industry that from the day of EA till today, there has been people in conference rooms DAILY arguing over this very issue trying to figure out what the best options are. At the end of the day it is just a game.

[MechBFP]

50 minutes ago, BmB said:

Releasing patches isn't going to make the game worse, where do you shills get this stuff from?

Yes, it may introduce some new bugs, emphasis on MAY, that is still better than leaving bugs this bad unfixed for weeks, and those new bugs can themselves be fixed. It's something you only worry about when the game is already stable and you don't want to accidentally make it unstable. But that's not the case right now, the case is they have fixes and they are withholding them for no reason.

The game is stable though, I haven't experienced a single crash.

Or is your definition of stable "it works the way I personally want it to work"?

[Delay]

30 minutes ago, BmB said:

If they release fixes promptly that is the only thing that will save that. If, and that's only IF they accidentally make something else broken, they apply the same principle and fix it promptly OR ROLL BACK a version.

I'm sorry, what?

You're complaining about the current state of the game while acknowledging that rushed fixes could force the devs to go back to an earlier version? That is, go back to this current one if it messes the game up too badly because it wasn't tested?
Why not save everyone from that disaster, the devs and us as the players (and potentially the project itself!), by thoroughly testing the candidate version so that a rollback is not necessary?

In general, I find your arguments quite funny: The worse the quality of the current build is, the earlier you want the next update. I don't think this has very high potential to dramatically increase the game's quality. I'd rather wait three weeks and get a ton of tried and tested fixes, than wait one day and have the patch notes read "By the way, there's a slight possibility this update is even more broken than the previous one". Fixes should never come with a "use at your own risk" kind of warning attached.

[BmB]

You keep acting as if it's guaranteed to blow up the game rather than a small risk, a risk that is insignificant next to how broken the game is right now. The worst that can happen is it's broken in a slightly different way. If they don't release anything the worst that can happen is it stays this broken, which I might remind you is very bad.

14 minutes ago, thewhitemetroid said:

It would be a good exercise right now to drop all preconceived notions about this situation and take a moment to look at this from the dev point of view. Or better yet lets say Nate Simpson's.

Not my job to care, it's his job to fix his product. They're not your friends, just because he makes a puppy face on camera doesn't earn him anything. Maybe if he isn't capable of getting this under control he should be axed.

Edited March 9, 2023 by BmB

[KrakenBait]

I've encountered plenty of bugs and the occasional crash. That being said I wouldn't call the game broken beyond the point where it can't be any worse.
Despite all the issues I've managed to do several missions already, and it seems plenty of others have as well.
Although I'd like all the bugs to be fixed as soon as possible as well, we've waited several years already so waiting a week or two for the fixes to be tested shouldn't be a big deal.

There always KSP 1 to go back to in the mean time.

[Delay]

28 minutes ago, BmB said:

Not my job to care, it's his job to fix his product.

Then maybe, just maybe, let him do his job.

[BmB]

We didn't pay for it years ago, we paid for it now. That leaves an obligation on the part of the developer.

Cyberpunk 2077 was recalled, this is honestly no better. They need to release fixes ASAP.

[Delay]

1 minute ago, BmB said:

They need to release fixes ASAP.

...After testing them and making sure that they actually improve the quality of the game instead of making the game divide by zero all the time.

They should release fixes as soon as possible, but no sooner.

[thewhitemetroid]

YOU choose to buy an invitation to an unfinished product which was clearly stated. Cyberpunk was released as finished, Not comparable.

[BmB]

They can only improve the game, it's that bad. If they have the fixes listed in the OP, then they can be released.

As we've already discussed over and over, EA is not an excuse, there are guidelines and rules for the quality that an EA product should meet, it is still a finished release.

[Delay]

4 minutes ago, BmB said:

They can only improve the game, it's that bad.

Here's something quite essential that could be broken: As of right now, the game launches.

4 minutes ago, BmB said:

As we've already discussed over and over, EA is not an excuse, there are guidelines and rules for the quality that an EA product should meet, it is still a finished release.

What you want here actually is at odds with Steam's guidelines for what qualifies as Early Access: EA is not for finished releases, but for games still in active development:

Quote

Early Access is not a pre-purchase
Early Access is not meant to be a form of pre-purchase, but a tool to get your game in front of Steam users and gather feedback while finishing your game.

Early Access titles must deliver a playable game or usable software to the customer at the time of purchase, while pre-purchase games are delivered at a future date. Read more about Pre-Purchasing on Steam.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Delay

[BmB]

Exactly, I didn't pre-purchase fixes in 2 weeks, I purchased the game now, the game must work now. Fixes HAVE to be released now. [snip]

Edited March 9, 2023 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[Delay]

4 hours ago, BmB said:

Exactly, I didn't pre-purchase fixes in 2 weeks, I purchased the game now, the game must work now.

The game launches, the VAB works, you can go to orbit, you can reach all planets in the Kerbol system.

I'd say the game works.

[snip]

Edited March 9, 2023 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[BmB]

The VAB does not work, it often breaks. Many times your flights will be destroyed by bugs, sometimes you can't launch, sometimes you can't save or load. And yes, there are crashes. The game is basically non-functional.

[Fluke]

9 minutes ago, Delay said:

Here's something quite essential that could be broken: As of right now, the game launches.

It's okay, sounds like someone else here thinks Ctrl-Z is a good way to make things work again when you "fix" them really fast. One step forward, two steps back, but hey, I'm moving! 

[Delay]

Just now, BmB said:

The game is basically non-functional

You just described that the game is functional, just not as ready as you may wish it to be.

[Periple]

@BmB If you're that upset about the state of the EA but are past the Steam refund window and Steam refuses to refund, have you considered contacting PD/Intercept directly? 

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, BmB said:

You keep acting as if it's guaranteed to blow up the game rather than a small risk, a risk that is insignificant next to how broken the game is right now.

Of course he's acting like that, because that is the reality. No one, no one, is insane enough to push out a patch that touched many parts of the code base untested. You don't even test to find out what breaks at that point -- you test to see what it is that breaks. And it's not because of sloppiness, it's because things are complex, and one innocuous change in one spot can have an unexpected result somewhere else.

1 hour ago, BmB said:

Not my job to care, it's his job to fix his product. They're not your friends, just because he makes a puppy face on camera doesn't earn him anything. Maybe if he isn't capable of getting this under control he should be axed.

But you are telling him how to do his job. But yeah. Let's fire him. Right now. Fire all the devs right now too. When will your patch be released, do you think, if they do that?

[BmB]

Yet good companies do push out hotfixes for critical issues within sometimes a few hours or days.

[Delay]

9 minutes ago, BmB said:

Yet good companies do push out hotfixes

Not sure that's the best criterion.

Sure, some are capable of this and possibly had the fix in the pipeline for a while at the time of release, but you're implying all companies that don't do that are not good, which is absurd.

[Rits]

2 hours ago, BmB said:

We didn't pay for it years ago, we paid for it now. That leaves an obligation on the part of the developer.

Cyberpunk 2077 was recalled, this is honestly no better. They need to release fixes ASAP.

CP2077 was not recalled, no platform besides play station stopped selling the game due to its un-playability. Not even steam