docking port alignment indicator

[Youpiyatta]

Hello

When we go into docking mode, can you add a tool like the ksp1 docking port alignment mod.

this will facilitate docking. currently in ksp2 there is no indicator that gives relative speed and attitude to target dock

thank you

[The Aziz]

I found the mod super confusing and for me it did the opposite, made docking harder.

Both KSP1 and 2 have general velocity indicators relative to target, target and anti target SAS modes. It is enough to perform docking without much fuss, but there's one more icon on the navball it could have - parallel alignment indicator like here

 

 

[LameLefty]

I adore this mod in KSP1 and docking without is slow, tedious and not nearly as intuitive.  I would love for something like it to become stock in KSP2, or if Navyfish could port it to the new game.

Even more than the fact that it makes aligning docking ports and velocity vectors completely intuitive is the fact that you can target off-axis docking ports (such as radial or zenith/nadir ports) on any module and the process of aligning velocity vectors and managing closure rate is exactly the same. 

 

[Elfmaze]

You can get relative motion to the docking port with a KSP stock nav ball.  But alignment to stay perpendicular has always been a visual thing.  And with rotation missing in ports that's another thing to keep an eye on again.  

 

I liked the docking port alignment mod personally

[LameLefty]

2 minutes ago, Elfmaze said:

You can get relative motion to the docking port with a KSP stock nav ball. 

The problem with this in KSP2 is that in Target mode, relative velocity displayed on the navball is not signed - that is, no positive or negative value with the velocity, so it's not intuitively obvious whether you are closing with the target or increasing separation. The DPAI mod in KSP1 puts that number right smack in the UI of the mod widget window, so you can tell at a glance are you adjust your velocity vector exactly have fast you're closing or separating. The KSP2 Target mode would be more informative if they at least added a sign to the value.
 

But it will never be as intuitive or easy to dock using just the navball (especially now that the thing is parked in the lower left of the UI) as compared to DPAI.

[Elfmaze]

1 minute ago, LameLefty said:

The problem with this in KSP2 is that in Target mode, relative velocity displayed on the navball is not signed - that is, no positive or negative value with the velocity, so it's not intuitively obvious whether you are closing with the target or increasing separation. The DPAI mod in KSP1 puts that number right smack in the UI of the mod widget window, so you can tell at a glance are you adjust your velocity vector exactly have fast you're closing or separating. The KSP2 Target mode would be more informative if they at least added a sign to the value.
 

But it will never be as intuitive or easy to dock using just the navball (especially now that the thing is parked in the lower left of the UI) as compared to DPAI.

True, and the speed doesn't calculate well under 5m/s it seems.  Drops of somewhere around 2ish? 

[The Aziz]

Just now, LameLefty said:

The DPAI mod in KSP1 puts that number right smack in the UI of the mod widget window, so you can tell at a glance are you adjust your velocity vector exactly have fast you're closing or separating.

You can tell at a glance if distance between you and the other craft is increasing or decreasing. And when your Target marker is somewhat aligned with Prograde marker, you know you're closing in.

[LameLefty]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

You can tell at a glance if distance between you and the other craft is increasing or decreasing. And when your Target marker is somewhat aligned with Prograde marker, you know you're closing in.

Not without glancing in multiple places. And since the Target marker in KSP2 is the same color as the attitude indicator, using the navball alone to dock is visually cluttered and unintuitive. I've done a few dozen times in the last 3+ weeks, but I don't like it.

And we get that you're not a fan of Navyfish's DPAI. Great and good for you. But I'm with the OP here. I haven't made a docking without it in KSP1 in many years, and I'd be using it today if it was available for KSP2 or was part of the stock docking system. 

[The Aziz]

Yeah but that's just it, isn't it?

8 minutes ago, LameLefty said:

visually cluttered and unintuitive.

I can say the same about the mod. Opinions, opinions.

[DaveLChgo]

DPAI  from KSP1  Is awesome!!   Would love to have this option or have the mod ported.  Always found that this mod to be critical when performing a dock on instruments or from an internal view.

[LameLefty]

41 minutes ago, DaveLChgo said:

Always found that this mod to be critical when performing a dock on instruments or from an internal view.

My best and most common use for it was to dock to arbitrary docking port locations on large, multi-port stations. I would typically have an orbital refinery/propellant depot station orbiting places like Minmus, Ike, and Vall. Each station would have anywhere from 4 - 8 radial docking ports and two axial ports (one on each end). I would dock things to these stations that may themselves not have their docking ports on the nose - for instance, spaceplanes with those neat little extendible ports that close up under covers. DPAI allows me to abstract away a lot of the confusion and turn docking into a couple of very simple visual steps, no matter which docking port I’m targeting. 

[Hotel26]

On 3/19/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Aziz said:

parallel alignment indicator like here

I second this.  (I also added NavBallTextureChanger with a complementary navball color scheme to make the pink and yellow markers easier to read.)

Navball Docking Alignment Indicator revolutionized my docking strategy and is ultra-simple.  As much as I liked DPAI for the years I used it, I would never go back.

22 hours ago, LameLefty said:

may themselves not have their docking ports on the nose

If I understand this right, Control From Here; SAS Target and then standard use of RCS is how I accomplish same.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Hotel26

[linuxgurugamer]

On 3/19/2023 at 10:18 AM, The Aziz said:

I found the mod super confusing and for me it did the opposite, made docking harder.

Both KSP1 and 2 have general velocity indicators relative to target, target and anti target SAS modes. It is enough to perform docking without much fuss, but there's one more icon on the navball it could have - parallel alignment indicator like here

 

 

LOL   Can't please everybody.  I use this all the time when docking.

[The Aziz]

Of course not

Wait are you referring to the navball mod or the other one..

[HebaruSan]

DPAI was for me like training wheels. Once I got used to it, suddenly it "clicked" for me how to do most of it with the navball.

The alignment indicator is nice, but would be nicer as just an SAS mode.

[LameLefty]

1 hour ago, HebaruSan said:

Once I got used to it, suddenly it "clicked" for me how to do most of it with the navball.

If you do enough navball-only dockings (as we had to do from the time docking ports were added until Navyfish created DPAI), then it will have clicked anyway. It's still much easier and more intuitive to use the mod, especially if you align the roll axis as suggested before starting to align the velocity vector marker with the target. THAT step alone makes the actual closure-and-dock procedure a dead simple matter of just tiny little X/Y axis RCS burns using the keyboard docking mode controls (IJKL) plus H/N as needed to increase or decrease closure rate. If you're patient, you can dock using a ridiculously low amount of monoprop. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by LameLefty

[pandaman]

TBH this is the kind of thing I expected would be included in EA from day 1.  Adding an icon to the Navball doesn't strike me as being a particularly computationally demanding feature either (but I could be wrong of course).

I will be very disappointed if it's not added for v1.0 as it is very much a QoL feature that benefits newer players.

[sir_frost]

the Navball approach is certainly the way to go.

it is simple and does not clutter you screen

i would like to see an addition to the SAS controls to lock to the docking alignment indicator on the Navball. this would free up the brain for translation controls.