Docking madness

[EvelynThe Dragon]

I am playing around practicing docking and am having a bad time. I like to build my space stations a module at a time just like the ISS was put together instead of trying to hurl some monstrosity into orbit in one go... I have played KSP1 for a long time and can execute a docking fairly well, even manually. So I know how to do it.

But, I am having a hell of a time even getting near to the station with a new module. Everything will be going great, I'll be within a reasonable distance, then several problems pop up. The first and most annoying one is that the distance between the target position and the module I am flying jumps, it never gets closer when it does, only further away. I will be say 25 meters away and suddenly, the station is 200 meters away.

The next problem is RCS wigs out when using SAS target  mode, it's using all my monopropellant (I am aware this is a known issue). It's really very annoying. This makes things more difficult overall IMO, in KSP1, I would set the port I am docking with and the one I am docking to as control points on each ship then use the target alignment in SAS to make things a lot easier.

Setting a docking port as a target is difficult, sometimes it works, sometimes I can't figure out how to make it work, even though I think I am doing the same thing each time. So I end up playing tricks with SAS orbital alignment to get a good orientation on the craft I am docking to.

Attitude oscillations, seriously a pain in the butt. Control wheels and RCS both induce such oscillations, especially when rolling the craft to align it to the position you want and so I can reliably translate the craft I am flying.

RCS, especially with regard to translations done perpendicular to the orbital path is really sensitive and hard to control. Cancelling those vectors is super finicky.

Undocking is far more energetic than it ever should be. By the time I can switch to the undocked craft, it's far away and probably has an induced pitch or yaw rotation. Sometimes that doesn't matter, sometimes it really does. If you want to reposition a part, it can get tricky. And yes, I am using the [ and ] keys to cycle from one craft to another. (I currently have docking force at 100%, so I have no idea if reducing it will affect this).

Vessel naming? What [snip] is going on here? Why is there no vessel naming management in  KSP2 like KSP1 had?

Disappearing orbit tracks and craft sprites in map mode after docking... and sometimes I can't get it to ever come back.

Half the time, my station disappears completely, cannot find it in the tracking station when this happens. It's random and it disappears when I switch to the VAB to build another module. And right now, I think my most complex station is roughly 50-60 parts and has 4 modules. I built craft in KSP1 with far bigger part counts, 300 to 400 was workable for me and 10 or more modules docked.

Now I am using Lazy Orbit to skip the tedium boost and rendezvous while I am practicing, I have no idea if that mod is affecting anything.

Edited April 20, 2023 by 18Watt
Edited by moderation team.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

11 hours ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

Undocking is far more energetic than it ever should be. By the time I can switch to the undocked craft, it's far away and probably has an induced pitch or yaw rotation. Sometimes that doesn't matter, sometimes it really does. If you want to reposition a part, it can get tricky

Has the game stopped renaming one of the undocked craft, 'debris', and preventing you from controlling it? 

11 hours ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

Setting a docking port as a target is difficult

I'd say in the previous iteration it was impossible.  At least it never worked for me.  This was something I wanted them to fix but there were so many other problems that I figured they'd never get to it. 

Still I'm glad you bring it up - because between this and losing all rcs before even attempted docking is a PITA. 

[RaBDawG]

16 hours ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

I am playing around practicing docking and am having a bad time. I like to build my space stations a module at a time just like the ISS was put together instead of trying to hurl some monstrosity into orbit in one go... I have played KSP1 for a long time and can execute a docking fairly well, even manually. So I know how to do it.

But, I am having a hell of a time even getting near to the station with a new module. Everything will be going great, I'll be within a reasonable distance, then several problems pop up. The first and most annoying one is that the distance between the target position and the module I am flying jumps, it never gets closer when it does, only further away. I will be say 25 meters away and suddenly, the station is 200 meters away.

The next problem is RCS wigs out when using SAS target  mode, it's using all my monopropellant (I am aware this is a known issue). It's really very annoying. This makes things more difficult overall IMO, in KSP1, I would set the port I am docking with and the one I am docking to as control points on each ship then use the target alignment in SAS to make things a lot easier.

Setting a docking port as a target is difficult, sometimes it works, sometimes I can't figure out how to make it work, even though I think I am doing the same thing each time. So I end up playing tricks with SAS orbital alignment to get a good orientation on the craft I am docking to.

Attitude oscillations, seriously a pain in the butt. Control wheels and RCS both induce such oscillations, especially when rolling the craft to align it to the position you want and so I can reliably translate the craft I am flying.

RCS, especially with regard to translations done perpendicular to the orbital path is really sensitive and hard to control. Cancelling those vectors is super finicky.

Undocking is far more energetic than it ever should be. By the time I can switch to the undocked craft, it's far away and probably has an induced pitch or yaw rotation. Sometimes that doesn't matter, sometimes it really does. If you want to reposition a part, it can get tricky. And yes, I am using the [ and ] keys to cycle from one craft to another. (I currently have docking force at 100%, so I have no idea if reducing it will affect this).

Vessel naming? What the actual F*** is going on here? Why is there no vessel naming management in  KSP2 like KSP1 had?

Disappearing orbit tracks and craft sprites in map mode after docking... and sometimes I can't get it to ever come back.

Half the time, my station disappears completely, cannot find it in the tracking station when this happens. It's random and it disappears when I switch to the VAB to build another module. And right now, I think my most complex station is roughly 50-60 parts and has 4 modules. I built craft in KSP1 with far bigger part counts, 300 to 400 was workable for me and 10 or more modules docked.

Now I am using Lazy Orbit to skip the tedium boost and rendezvous while I am practicing, I have no idea if that mod is affecting anything.

The game is broken bro.  Give it 6 months

[Little 908]

The docking is not the big problem here. The kraken is. Building stations when you don’t have autostrut or eva construction is insanely dumb. I was always building and docking in space in ksp 1. But I basic can’t stand having the kraken rip apart my craft, my 500+ part stations. The only current fixes are to 1. Deal with it 2. Go inside the games code or 3. Launch the entire station together. Just no.

 

Oh yeah and you right click on the docking port to set it as the target… like why do you have to open the laggy parts manager, instead of just double clicking

Edited April 19, 2023 by Little 908

[EvelynThe Dragon]

3 hours ago, RaBDawG said:

The game is broken bro.  Give it 6 months

I am not a dude, do not call me bro. And the point of the post seems to be utterly missed on you. So if you have nothing helpful to contribute, just don't.

2 hours ago, Little 908 said:

Oh yeah and you right click on the docking port to set it as the target… like why do you have to open the laggy parts manager, instead of just double clicking

I hate the way it's done now, I want the old right-click mechanic back, with the ability (where appropriate) to type numeric values in.

8 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Has the game stopped renaming one of the undocked craft, 'debris', and preventing you from controlling it? 

I'd say in the previous iteration it was impossible.  At least it never worked for me.  This was something I wanted them to fix but there were so many other problems that I figured they'd never get to it. 

Still I'm glad you bring it up - because between this and losing all rcs before even attempted docking is a PITA. 

Oh, it definitely renames crap, but no longer to "debris" but I am unsure if that is any sort of improvement.

I never had a problem selecting a docking port in KSP1 because I could focus the camera on the craft I was docking to and zoom in to select it. I don't even know if it is even possible to set the camera view to anything but default in KSP2. 

[EvelynThe Dragon]

I had a private discussion with someone else, it seems the jumping I am experiencing is a result of using the Lazy Orbit mod. Which sucks, because I am just trying to practice  docking. 

And now SAS isn't working on my assembled station. It just tumbles. Yes, I know this is early access and things aren't reliable, but this is just ridiculous.

[Kim Hanson]

20 hours ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

Attitude oscillations, seriously a pain in the butt. Control wheels and RCS both induce such oscillations, especially when rolling the craft to align it to the position you want and so I can reliably translate the craft I am flying.

I've found the best workaround for the oscillations is to disable rotations in RCS.  Use only reaction wheels for rotations and only use the RCS for translations.  This smooths things out tremendously but by no means is it perfect.  Also saves on monopropellant.

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

And now SAS isn't working on my assembled station. It just tumbles. Yes, I know this is early access and things aren't reliable, but this is just ridiculous.

It's just very early access, for special perv... fans! This is far from the only bug due to which any desire to launch the game disappears.

[EvelynThe Dragon]

18 minutes ago, Kim Hanson said:

I've found the best workaround for the oscillations is to disable rotations in RCS.  Use only reaction wheels for rotations and only use the RCS for translations.  This smooths things out tremendously but by no means is it perfect.  Also saves on monopropellant.

It still happens with just reaction wheels, it should have much better damping IMO

1 minute ago, Alexoff said:

It's just very early access, for special perv... fans! This is far from the only bug due to which any desire to launch the game disappears.

Yes, I UNDERSTAND IT IS EARLY ACCESS. But unless people identify these issues, they won't get fixed. Your comment is really pointless.

[Kim Hanson]

1 minute ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

It still happens with just reaction wheels, it should have much better damping IMO

Oh, I agree!  If this was a RL part I would say the feedback system is flawed or still experimental.  What I have found is that if your reaction wheel is over powered, it will steady down almost immediately; if it is under powered, it will take a ridiculously long time to stabilize.

[EvelynThe Dragon]

1 minute ago, Kim Hanson said:

Oh, I agree!  If this was a RL part I would say the feedback system is flawed or still experimental.  What I have found is that if your reaction wheel is over powered, it will steady down almost immediately; if it is under powered, it will take a ridiculously long time to stabilize.

Yeah, I am pretty familiar with how  real feedback mechanisms work and how to control damping and other unwanted responses. It's part of what I do for a living.

[Dantheollie]

I always do a little ritual-dance before embarking on any missions in KSP2. I sacrifice Jeb to the Kraken and I chant ancient Kerbal songs to my cat.

Maybe this will help with your problem?

Mind you, even with the dancing, it's always 50/50 whether things will better or not

[Alexoff]

16 minutes ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

But unless people identify these issues, they won't get fixed.

It seems that the forum has a special section where you can report bugs.

17 minutes ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

Your comment is really pointless.

Well, in KSP2 (and KSP1), space stations are mostly pointless too...

[EvelynThe Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Dantheollie said:

I always do a little ritual-dance before embarking on any missions in KSP2. I sacrifice Jeb to the Kraken and I chant ancient Kerbal songs to my cat.

Maybe this will help with your problem?

Mind you, even with the dancing, it's always 50/50 whether things will better or not

My knees hate me (I'm old), my cats just want to step on my keyboard and beg treats, and I can't sing... 

[Dantheollie]

33 minutes ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

My knees hate me (I'm old), my cats just want to step on my keyboard and beg treats, and I can't sing... 

Don't worry about those things. It's the spirit that counts

[Racescort666]

38 minutes ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

Yeah, I am pretty familiar with how  real feedback mechanisms work and how to control damping and other unwanted responses. It's part of what I do for a living.

I remember people asking for the option to change PID values in my KSP1 days, did a mod for that ever come up?

I think part of the problem is still wobbly rockets. This caused all kinds of problems for me until I just strutted the bajeezus out of everything. Part count gets big fast but at least things are rigid. Something else to note, fine control (default bound to Caps Lock) does not balance RCS. This was one of the first things I tested in KSP2 and I exhaustively tested it in KSP1 (at least as far as whatever version I left off at, 1.2 or 3 maybe)

[EvelynThe Dragon]

1 hour ago, Kim Hanson said:

I've found the best workaround for the oscillations is to disable rotations in RCS.  Use only reaction wheels for rotations and only use the RCS for translations.  This smooths things out tremendously but by no means is it perfect.  Also saves on monopropellant.

So by limiting RCS to just translations, it has smoothed things out a lot. Good idea there. This makes it a lot less fussy when I just want to adjust pointing (pitch, yaw. roll) and not have to deal with turning RCS on and off. 

Just now, Racescort666 said:

I remember people asking for the option to change PID values in my KSP1 days, did a mod for that ever come up?

I think part of the problem is still wobbly rockets. This caused all kinds of problems for me until I just strutted the bajeezus out of everything. Part count gets big fast but at least things are rigid. Something else to note, fine control (default bound to Caps Lock) does not balance RCS. This was one of the first things I tested in KSP2 and I exhaustively tested it in KSP1 (at least as far as whatever version I left off at, 1.2 or 3 maybe)

Being able to tune PID values would be fantastic. I think MechJeb lets you do that a bit.

Yeah, wobbly rockets is one of my huge complaints.

OK, hmm, I was unaware of fine control, I will go play with it... OK, that was interesting. When I have RCS enabled and fine control on, the RCS thrusters won't even fire.

[Buzz313th]

7 hours ago, EvelynThe Dragon said:

11 hours ago, RaBDawG said:

The game is broken bro.  Give it 6 months

I am not a dude, do not call me bro. And the point of the post seems to be utterly missed on you. So if you have nothing helpful to contribute, just don't.

Perfect!