DPRK Space Program (NATGB) thread

[steve9728]

I guess it's okay to have a thread for Kim's rocket if we just discuss technology and not politics?

KCNA Report (from DPRK): http://www.kcna.kp/en/article/q/7142df36a42436897659ab36722d0082.kcmsf

Report from their southern friends: N. Korea says spy satellite crashes into sea, to seek 2nd launch in near future

damn I just made wrong to their space agency name, National Aerospace Development Administration (NADA)

Edited September 29, 2023 by steve9728

[Codraroll]

Always a joy to see authoritarian dictatorships fail. Let's hope for a peaceful and democratic reunification of Korea soon, so the country can put a unified effort into a space program. South Korea has the tech, while North Korea has ... uhh ... remote facilities from which to launch, I guess. 

[kerbiloid]

Another mighty entity. (p.5)

http://www.korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/periodic/pictorial/20230429165408.pdf

(from http://www.korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=periodic-pictorial , other issues have the rocket pix, too).

The buildings at p.24 also look similar.

Edited May 31, 2023 by kerbiloid

[steve9728]

1 minute ago, Codraroll said:

South Korea has the tech, while North Korea has ... uhh ... remote facilities from which to launch, I guess. 

tbh, I was slightly confused by the fact that their southern friend's launch site was built on a hill that had to turn a little corner.

But of course, the North's launch something unpeaceful on the airport taxiway wasn't much better.

[kerbiloid]

23 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

Always a joy to see authoritarian dictatorships fail. Let's hope for a peaceful and democratic reunification of Korea soon, so the country can put a unified effort into a space program. South Korea has the tech, while North Korea has ... uhh ... remote facilities from which to launch, I guess. 

NK has the Soviet rocket tech (probably via a post-Soviet republic), SK has the Soviet rocket tech via Angara stage used in its LV.

The U_nitedK will run twice better into space

Spoiler

from its Tonghae sat launching ground and Hwason-20 LV with SK fine chips.

P.S.
What's the native name of the Orion constellation in Korean? (Not /orion/ spelling, but the ancient/medieval/native name? Like, "Space Hunter", "Three Stars", or so, how did they call it in Korean.)

I mean, what would be the Project Orion name of a NK nuke spaceship?

Edited May 31, 2023 by kerbiloid

[steve9728]

9 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

NK has the Soviet rocket tech (probably via a post-Soviet republic), SK has the Soviet rocket tech via Angara stage used in its LV.

The U_nitedK will run twice better into space

  Reveal hidden contents

from its Tonghae sat launching ground and Hwason-20 LV with SK fine chips.

P.S.
What's the native name of the Orion constellation in Korean? (Not /orion/ spelling, but the ancient/medieval/native name? Like, "Space Hunter", "Three Stars", or so, how did they call it in Korean.)

I mean, what would be the Project Orion name of a NK nuke spaceship?

 

 

The fact is both two sides all have experts from Soviet. Not only in the field of rocket science, but also in many different fields. Southern doesn't have something that can "reach Boeing plant in Seattle" but northern has it and successfully launch it many times. But Southern's 7 little toys successfully get into the orbit last few days. So, "they both have their own reasons".

Spoiler

As well, just a few years ago, several northern Chinese poly uni reported that "the mass downloading of papers by DPRK students led to the blocking of the university's online library website".

I can't answer the question in Korean: the only Korean friend - my classmate in high school, is in the PLA and it's not easy to contact him.

The only thing I can understand that "Malligyong" translate to Chinese means the "thousands miles mirrors" and "Chollima" means "fine steed"

Edited May 31, 2023 by steve9728

[SunlitZelkova]

9 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

P.S.
What's the native name of the Orion constellation in Korean? (Not /orion/ spelling, but the ancient/medieval/native name? Like, "Space Hunter", "Three Stars", or so, how did they call it in Korean.)

I mean, what would be the Project Orion name of a NK nuke spaceship?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheonsang_Yeolcha_Bunyajido
 

But can’t find a list of constellations in English. It is possible Orion is split into different constellations as is in Chinese astronomy.

[steve9728]

On 5/31/2023 at 4:38 PM, kerbiloid said:

What's the native name of the Orion constellation in Korean?

14 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheonsang_Yeolcha_Bunyajido
 

But can’t find a list of constellations in English. It is possible Orion is split into different constellations as is in Chinese astronomy.

Without surprise - I don't need any translation app to read the ancient Korean artifact. So, if we assume that they continue to use Chinese astrological nomenclature and that their Orion project wants to have the same nomenclature as their friends across the Pacific - like something 'Polaris'. Then it's called "猎户座", and Mr. Google Translate said it's "오리온" in Korean. Not sure it is pronounced the same way in the north, as there are some differences in vocabulary between the Koreans of the north and the south.

Wait... a correction: the Orion in ancient Chinese name is really complex. This thing is named "参商(shēn shāng)" in short.

Spoiler

Constellation in ancient Chinese was “星宿(xīn xìu)”. The stars were named the constellation names in short, and add “constellation” in short, which is“宿(xìu)”, then add with numbers. So, in long:

• Ori α = 参宿四 (shēn xìu four)
• Ori β=  参宿七 (~ seven)
• Ori γ= 参宿五 (~ five)
• Ori δ= 参宿三 (~ three)
• Ori ε= 参宿二 (~ two)
• Ori ζ= 参宿一 (~ one)
• Ori η= 参宿增三 (~ plus three)
• Ori ι= 伐三 (the third star of another constellation)
• Ori κ= 参宿六 (shēn xìu six)
• Ori λ= 觜宿一 (the first star of another constellation)
• Ori π³= 参宿六 (shēn xìu six)

Edited June 1, 2023 by steve9728

[steve9728]

From KCNA. The background of the second image looks like an advertisement for the origin of some mineral water brand.

[SunlitZelkova]

Oh wow. I was not expecting the fairing to look like that.

Very Long March-ish compared to past SLVs.

[steve9728]

8 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Oh wow. I was not expecting the fairing to look like that.

Very Long March-ish compared to past SLVs.

Attention to the tail flames - most of the CNSA rocket's tail flames diverge in an outward direction, but they were even a little inward.

And there are no fins on the rocket!

Edited June 1, 2023 by steve9728

[SunlitZelkova]

Analysis of the dimensions of the new LV.

Unfortunately they may not provide standard launch warnings on the next attempt. But I hope they succeed. A reconnaissance satellite will contribute to strategic stability and ease paranoia.

[kerbiloid]

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Analysis of the dimensions of the new LV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-16_(missile)

Should be 3/2.4.

(Because they are cosplaying the tech, so should follow the standards.)

[Ultimate Steve]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:41 AM, steve9728 said:

I will say that is a very picturesque launch site, in my mind second only to Mahia. I'm a sucker for islands.

[SunlitZelkova]

https://m-jp.yna.co.kr/view/AJP20230626002400882?site=lang_jp
 

South Korea recovered the satellite. We may get an up close look at North Korean space technology soon.

By the way, to what extent would this rocket be considered ballistic missile technology? Is this vehicle related to Hwasong-17? Or is it R-7 levels of dual use?

And then meanwhile…

 

[steve9728]

11 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

By the way, to what extent would this rocket be considered ballistic missile technology? Is this vehicle related to Hwasong-17? Or is it R-7 levels of dual use?

Generally, there are three different relationships between rockets and missiles:

1. Like CZ-2 and DF-5: they differ only in name and in the paint color of the rocket.
2. Like KZ-1 and DF-31: technically speaking the KZ-1 has a small part of the technology of the DF-31 on it. But in fact, the KZ-1 is independent of the DF-31 - it is literally a completely new model.
3. Like JAXA's rocket: it's not legal for JP to work on ballistic missiles. So, in theory, JAXA's rockets are "the most peaceful" one in Northeast Asia.

While I have some sympathy for the DPRK, I don't think there don't have any connection at all between this rocket and the ballistic missile. I think there is a certain probability that it is the second relationship mentioned above.

[Vanamonde]

As always, please avoid the subject of politics. It just never ends well. 

Some comments removed. 

[SunlitZelkova]

DPRK has notified the Japan Coast Guard they will be attempting to launch a satellite between August 24th and August 31st.

I can’t post the news link because of politics 

Considering their success in developing ICBMs, SRBMs, and MLRS, it will be interesting to see if they can replicate that level of development in space efforts.

[kerbiloid]

As the Coast Guard is patrolling the seas, it will probably be an orbit with underwater periapsis.

[SunlitZelkova]

Launch failed!

https://x.com/armscontrolwonk/status/1694480129752170689?s=46&t=Jd73T2beq0JLNtwTy1uR5A

I wonder if it would be easier to use a modified ICBM instead of a dedicated space launch vehicle. Sputnik (modified R-7) and Explorer 1 (modified Jupiter MRBM) succeeded on their first tries, whereas the first Long March attempt and Vanguard failed.

Maybe not though?

[SunlitZelkova]

Update-

https://x.com/joshjonsmith/status/1694462577735307504?s=46&t=Jd73T2beq0JLNtwTy1uR5A

It wasn’t the same problem as last time, the first and second stages worked fine. There was a problem with the “emergency blasting system” of the third stage.

Investigation is underway and they are going to make a third launch attempt in October.

[SunlitZelkova]

Update 2!-

The “emergency blasting system” is the self destruct. So they accidentally sent a self destruct command during the flight of the third stage, or the self destruct system malfunctioned.

[kerbiloid]

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Launch failed!

That's what DPRK wants you to think.

Coast Guards have seen how it dove to the periapsis, but they weren't looking at the opposite side of the sea, where it surfaced and jumped up to the apoapsis.

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I wonder if it would be easier to use a modified ICBM instead of a dedicated space launch vehicle.

But the LVUnha is a civil version of ICBM Taepodong.

4 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

the first and second stages worked fine.

Because its ICBM part is tested well.

[steve9728]

8 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Because its ICBM part is tested well.

Hopefully, some of their students who were studying abroad in their northern neighbours will notice that they need to change some of the data used for ICBM... At least ask the teachers...

"Comrades, there's a huge difference between launching something up and blowing something up."

But for them, and for this rocket, the failure of the third stage may also be a problem they didn't expect, after all, the previous launches hadn't progressed to this point.

Spoiler

Or they just made a mistake that every KSP player would make: The rocket launch sequence node was put in the wrong order and then the spacebar was pressed...

Edited August 24, 2023 by steve9728

[Codraroll]

8 hours ago, steve9728 said:

"Comrades, there's a huge difference between launching something up and blowing something up."

For North Korea, the outcome is usually the same. They have a history of stuff coming down after going up, usually not where and when it was intended to.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Codraroll