KSP2 EA Grand Discussion Thread.

[Bej Kerman]

22 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

• Buy the game (by the eula you dont own the game, an actual thing then shoved in there that is illegal in the eu, uk and several states)
• make some ships (the vab bugged on me several times)
• launch some ships (some launched some didnt at all 1 just hard crashed)
• fly ship to space (the floopy noodle kracken or the dissassembly kraken shot that horse in the face)
• repete with second ship, and connect some together ( see above dead horse's grey matter)
• and lastly but not least fir it to run at a rate that dosent cause me a migrane ( that flickering cause one that made me wish i was said horse witht he noggin ventelation)

I've had many of these problems before, but not as often as they are made out to be.

22 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

So you tell me, do you think that was too much to ask from a sequal made by a tripple a company charging full tripple a price?

This is a lot for 3 years of dev, and no, before you say it, 9 couples do not make a baby in a month, nor does money speed that process up.

[Chilkoot]

25 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

• Buy the game (by the eula you dont own the game, an actual thing then shoved in there that is illegal in the eu, uk and several states)

A lot of clauses in boilerplate EULAs are not enforceable in many jurisdictions.

[Space Kadet]

23 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I've had many of these problems before, but not as often as they are made out to be.

This is a lot for 3 years of dev, and no, before you say it, 9 couples do not make a baby in a month, nor does money speed that process up.

you lost me on that last one.  the first part, i had all those problems in the first 2/3 hours of playing across 3 pc's. i left the armosphere once! the 2060 and 4070 are my current builds i play games on the 4090 is one i had there for someone else, all ran crap same bugs across all platforms, theres also both windows 10 and 11 in there no difference.

9 couples do make a baby in a month if one couple was 8 months pregnant when they started the timer. a full game and a mod for everything they advertised, mods that are far better in most ways. Thats where they started, with the game already existing. 

 

11 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

A lot of clauses in boilerplate EULAs are not enforceable in many jurisdictions.

true, and in the eu theres precident that if an eula contains something thats illeagal the whole thing is void. 

But it speaks to the company. they arent trying to make a great game and give everyone the same experiennce, they are trying to get as much as possible from as many as possible.

also this boilerplate eula was only updated recently and hadent been changed in years. fromt the other games, so although its 'boilerplate' they changed it with ksp2 specifically in mind

Edited March 7, 2023 by Space Kadet
last scentance

[Bej Kerman]

6 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

9 couples do make a baby in a month if one couple was 8 months pregnant when they started the timer.

And now you're twisting the analogy in a way that doesn't even make sense. Starting development from scratch is not "8 months pregnant", it's 0 months pregnant.

[Space Kadet]

3 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

And now you're twisting the analogy in a way that doesn't even make sense. Starting development from scratch is not "8 months pregnant", it's 0 months pregnant.

they didnt start from scratch there was a full game that they have taken large sections of code from. i know both what they said and what actually happened. they where 8 months pregnant going into this.

thats like saying a new cod game was started from scratch. 

 

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Space Kadet said:

6 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

And now you're twisting the analogy in a way that doesn't even make sense. Starting development from scratch is not "8 months pregnant", it's 0 months pregnant.

they didnt start from scratch there was a full game

Oh. So you're angry because of an unproven conspiracy that's closer to being debunked than confirmed?

[Mutex]

2 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

they didnt start from scratch there was a full game that they have taken large sections of code from. i know both what they said and what actually happened. they where 8 months pregnant going into this.

How do you know what actually happened?

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, Mutex said:

How do you know what actually happened?

They don't, but if I'm not mistaken about this side of the community, they're probably going to open up by completely misquoting something the devs said...

[Space Kadet]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

They don't, but if I'm not mistaken about this side of the community, they're probably going to open up by completely misquoting something the devs said...

i would appreciate of you not make personal attacks like that.

 

4 minutes ago, Mutex said:

How do you know what actually happened?

i dont know what actually happened in the room, i do recognise the specific physics bug thats causing the framerate issue, it was a mods interaction that would cause it .  A specific bug from ksp thats in ksp2 when the new one turned on the same thing that modd did. plus the same memory leak killing saves that was in ksp1......

id bet the farm theres ksp code in there. never mind that if there was actually no code in there it would be the dumbest buisness move ever, why remake whats already there. this is take 2 after all.

[Uuky]

2 minutes ago, Mutex said:

How do you know what actually happened?

Does the dev team knows what actually happened? True question.

 

 

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

10 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

They don't, but if I'm not mistaken about this side of the community, they're probably going to open up by completely misquoting something the devs said...

i would appreciate of you not make personal attacks like that.

Alright. Are you still going to answer the question? 

[Wheehaw Kerman]

1 hour ago, Space Kadet said:

is there gameplay ? seriously? i couldent see it behind when the ships kept falling appart, the repeated crashes, the 15 fps  a corrupt save in the first 20 minutes, vab glitching etc etc....  my favourite one was when the rocket fellappart and landed on its side and the kraken started dragging it all over the place and the game became unresponsive and wouldent quit even when ctrlaltdeling it....

Gameplay?  I’ve currently got a monstrously OP SWERV-powered vessel in orbit of Minmus, about to do this hilariously inefficient 3,400 m/s burn out to Duna just because I can in this game.  I’ve got it painted in blue and orange Gulf livery, because we can paint vessels in this game.  Minmus looks far better than it did in KSP1 as it recedes, and the music suits it perfectly, because they had it done by a top notch professional for this game.  Kerbin is a pale green blue marble in the distance.

Actually playing KSP2 is much more fun than whining at people who’ve already heard it already and (one would think obviously) don’t care.

[Mitokandria]

1 hour ago, Space Kadet said:

not sure if you saw, but [...]

i made a new youtube account [...]

That's all well and good, but are you a game developer? Software/computer engineer? Are you at all in the gaming or computer/ software industry? If not then your perception of the development process is as an outsider regardless of how much Internet research you do.

 

This isn't a preorder. It's EA which is a paid open beta. For an early beta/late alpha this is pretty normal. Is $50 a bit high for a beta? Yes definitely. Was it pushed out a bit too early? Probably. But anyone buying it is presented with a large banner stating this is a beta and not a full game yet. Don't blame the devs if buyers ignore the warning.

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Space Kadet said:

i dont know what actually happened in the room, i do recognise the specific physics bug thats causing the framerate issue, it was a mods interaction that would cause it .  A specific bug from ksp thats in ksp2 when the new one turned on the same thing that modd did. plus the same memory leak killing saves that was in ksp1......

id bet the farm theres ksp code in there. never mind that if there was actually no code in there it would be the dumbest buisness move ever, why remake whats already there. this is take 2 after all.

I won't take you up on your bet. Of course there's KSP1 code in there. There's handling patched conics, calculating quaternions for maneuvers, frame-of-reference transitions. None of that stuff is trivial. Why would you rewrite that from scratch if there's code laying around that has already proven itself? That doesn't mean that they started off with a clone of KSP1. Maybe they did even did. But you can't conclude that because they're some reused code, especially in a game with a fair chunk of complex math involved.

 

[Space Kadet]

17 minutes ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Gameplay?  I’ve currently got a monstrously OP SWERV-powered vessel in orbit of Minmus, about to do this hilariously inefficient 3,400 m/s burn out to Duna just because I can in this game.  I’ve got it painted in blue and orange Gulf livery, because we can paint vessels in this game.  Minmus looks far better than it did in KSP1 as it recedes, and the music suits it perfectly, because they had it done by a top notch professional for this game.  Kerbin is a pale green blue marble in the distance.

Actually playing KSP2 is much more fun than whining at people who’ve already heard it already and (one would think obviously) don’t care.

serious question whats your hardware and fps? and any issues with save and reload?

 

9 minutes ago, Mitokandria said:

That's all well and good, but are you a game developer? Software/computer engineer? Are you at all in the gaming or computer/ software industry? If not then your perception of the development process is as an outsider regardless of how much Internet research you do.

 

This isn't a preorder. It's EA which is a paid open beta. For an early beta/late alpha this is pretty normal. Is $50 a bit high for a beta? Yes definitely. Was it pushed out a bit too early? Probably. But anyone buying it is presented with a large banner stating this is a beta and not a full game yet. Don't blame the devs if buyers ignore the warning.

so if you arent qualified you dont know anything? and again, none of what i mentioned was in any of the warnings!  But to answer the question BSc Hons in computer science with AI from glasgow, cisco and ms certs, worked in industry for over a decade programming and appdev, before i sacked it all in tobe an outdoor instructor and now i drive forest machines, ponsse mammoth being the shiney new one at my place.  Oh and started my qualifications the same year paisley uni in scotland  (down the road from where i was) made the first ever computer games development course in the uk, that every single person failed to get a job in the industry from (2001).

If you noticed my problem isint just what they did or more accuratly havent done, its also that if you understand the problems like some of us do, you can see a major issue with a game in a sorrier state thatn fallout 76 at launch with some serious issues that , again, are core issues that cant easily be fixed at this stage. couple that with what you term 'a bit expensive' an early access game thats over double the price it should be and the bigger picture becomes clearer. 

it litterally says this in the steam early access documentation 

Early Access is a place for games that are in a playable alpha or beta state, are worth the current value of the playable build, and that you plan to continue to develop for release.

Is it worth 50e if they do nothing else to it. No, then it shouldent be that price, and in its current state it shouldent even be on steam. The fact it is shows its a money grab, and with T2 rolling back development on everything, and KSP2 failing at 'launch' the future is bleak. Aside from the youtubers that need ksp for their channel and people here denying the issues, the people i know returned it, because as someone sort of mentioned above why pay 50 for a game that is in such a state that they will have to drop the price and by then it might be decent. 

 

[Space Kadet]

1 minute ago, Kerbart said:

I won't take you up on your bet. Of course there's KSP1 code in there. There's handling patched conics, calculating quaternions for maneuvers, frame-of-reference transitions. None of that stuff is trivial. Why would you rewrite that from scratch if there's code laying around that has already proven itself? That doesn't mean that they started off with a clone of KSP1. Maybe they did even did. But you can't conclude that because they're some reused code, especially in a game with a fair chunk of complex math involved.

 

i didnt say they started off with a clone,  i said they didnt start at zero, which is what above was trying to say with the baby analogy, because thats what the developers kinda claimed, which is nonesence.

And im not saying they started their development with a clone. Im saying all the source code was available from the first game, then the mod code was fingertips away, most of it easily viewable on github or by request because we are all fans and want an epic ksp2.  

But with all those resources, this is what they released in 4+ years.  

[Jacke]

The IG devs may have had access to the KSP1 code.  They may be previously KSP1 devs and/or modders.  But so many of the major bugs are near direct reproductions of or variants on KSP1 bugs it's not funny.  That KSP1 access doesn't seemed to have helped in this case.  Because either the bugs should have been avoided or resolved before now.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

2 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

serious question whats your hardware and fps? and any issues with save and reload?

 

Dell gaming laptop with a higher than recommended CPU and a GPU slightly above minimum: I7 12700 4.7ghz, GTX 3060 6GB.  FPS tend to bottom out around 20fps at KSC with graphics settings maxed, better in space.

First weekend I was running an I5 with a 1050ti - still playable.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Wheehaw Kerman

[S13ontap]

 

7 hours ago, S13ontap said:

This....  

This is what I just did to be able to play KSP2.  I wonder if the Frame rate will get better than the 2080TI let it.

Ah just kidding.  I bought the card, but I'd play KSP without it.  Hoping for an update soon, It's soul crushing to build something over and over just to not be able to launch or glitch out.  

This probably wont help that, but I'll let you guys know what frames I see on the pad.  (truth be told, the game is more fun with the FPS counter turned off)

 

 

Haha zero difference.   Oh well.  Can we at least talk about how much nicer everything is? or will be when it gets ironed out?  OMG the base game is amazing.  The ease of part connects, every click (when they work) is better.  Things are so clean. 

I wasn't around playing KSP1 when it was EA, but I've watched it grow over the last half decade.  The groundwork that is laid here will be built on so amazingly.  I'm glad the haters cant kill this game.  I'd hate it if it went the way of cyberpunk because people cant manage expectations.

Edited March 8, 2023 by S13ontap
misquote

[Ekerci]

On 3/6/2023 at 11:42 AM, Periple said:

I think they're going to be VERY careful about announcing any timelines because if and when they slip, people are going to be even more upset. Expect patches when you see them.

I think they're on a 2-4 week sprint cycle so that'll be more or less the cadence, exact dates depending on how long it'll take for a build to pass QA and whether they'll just hold it back and roll the fixes into the next one if it's really borked.

Since I like guessing, I'll guess that there's a 60% chance of the first patch dropping this week, 30% next week, and 10% after that.

Actually I'm going to be okay if they could give time line as "planned" release for the first road map item in Q3 2023. I believe this is very wide enough. now i dont really know when we can have playable game meaning like colony update is in the game. maybe I'm shooting for 2 years... if I'm going to wait 2 years, I would feel cheated and wasted my money. I wouldn't want to pay for the game like that and support devs.

[Periple]

6 minutes ago, Ekerci said:

Actually I'm going to be okay if they could give time line as "planned" release for the first road map item in Q3 2023. I believe this is very wide enough. now i dont really know when we can have playable game meaning like colony update is in the game. maybe I'm shooting for 2 years... if I'm going to wait 2 years, I would feel cheated and wasted my money. I wouldn't want to pay for the game like that and support devs.

You may be reasonable enough and understand the difference between a plan and a promise, but lots of fans don't. That will make them incredibly antsy about sharing any of their plans, especially with dates attached.

[Uuky]

23 minutes ago, Ekerci said:

Actually I'm going to be okay if they could give time line as "planned" release for the first road map item in Q3 2023.

Bad idea. If they are late, IG offices will be burned to the ground by fans.

Never give time lines to never have to move right the schedule and hire security. 

 

[MarcAbaddon]

The game had their timelines shifted 3-4 years already (yesyes, I know about the switch from ST to Intercept), so there were multiple delays announced without anything being burnt down to the ground. Still, I don't really think it's necessary to give a detailed breakdown of all future steps, but at least one roadmap step ahead would be sort of nice.

[Periple]

9 minutes ago, MarcAbaddon said:

The game had their timelines shifted 3-4 years already (yesyes, I know about the switch from ST to Intercept), so there were multiple delays announced without anything being burnt down to the ground. Still, I don't really think it's necessary to give a detailed breakdown of all future steps, but at least one roadmap step ahead would be sort of nice.

There just aren't any incentives to do that:

1. Announce a date + feature list: woo!
2. Announce that it slipped or features got dropped: RAAAARGH!

or

1. Announce nothing: griping
2. Ship it: YAAAAAY!

The ratio of positive to negative buzz is just so much better in the second option, it makes no sense to go with the first. Because milestones do slip and features do get dropped, for all kinds of reasons.

[Uuky]

1 hour ago, MarcAbaddon said:

The game had their timelines shifted 3-4 years already (yesyes, I know about the switch from ST to Intercept), so there were multiple delays announced without anything being burnt down to the ground. Still, I don't really think it's necessary to give a detailed breakdown of all future steps, but at least one roadmap step ahead would be sort of nice.

Well, they can't lie if they stay mute :p. Everybody wants to avoid the Star Citizen drama.

Video games sales are seasonals. For PC there are some periods like february/march and July/August which seem ideal for a game like KSP from where I sit.  Given each new feature release is sales point, you should expect a 6 months interval for each milestone but I can be wrong. 

My guess: Science mode will be issued in July