Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[Galane]

I wonder if we will be able to mine kethane from asteroids.

Don't see why not, whenever asteroids get added to the game. Hopefully KSP won't gain a movie style asteroid belt. A collection of space rocks that thick would clump together into one or more large bodies (AKA a planet or dwarf planet) except in certain circumstances where external gravitational forces would keep them apart, such as in "Trojan asteroids" orbiting Lagrange points.

Since KSP physics doesn't do Lagrange points... Would it be possible to simulate them on rails like the planets and moons?

[psyper]

Still not showing up in the gui. Thanks for the suggestion though. I currently looking in the other files for the gui code, but I'm haveing problems reading some of them.

I'm in the process of creating an addon to the kethane mod that uses water as a resource. I've got it all up and running and will be releasing it as a beta soon. I'll also be adding instructions on how to add you own resources. In the meantime the API wiki for kethane might help you out - https://github.com/Majiir/Kethane/wiki/API%20and%20Modules%20Documentation

[Hiromoto]

I'm in the process of creating an addon to the kethane mod that uses water as a resource. I've got it all up and running and will be releasing it as a beta soon. I'll also be adding instructions on how to add you own resources. In the meantime the API wiki for kethane might help you out - https://github.com/Majiir/Kethane/wiki/API%20and%20Modules%20Documentation

Thanks for the link I'll check it out.

[SeventhArchitect]

Can we edit how much kethane a kerman is worth now, as well as change an entire planet into a massive, dense collection of kethane?

[Superfluous J]

Can we edit how much kethane a kerman is worth now, as well as change an entire planet into a massive, dense collection of kethane?

No on the first one (at least, not through the part.cfg file) but it's pretty easy to do the 2nd thing. Just look for Kethane references in your perstistent.sfs file. Back it up first!

[Basilio]

Guys, I've encountered some strange behavior. Never used Kethane before, installed the 0.8.4, constructed a vessel with a large tank and a couple of small drills, landed in on Minmus in a spot that definitely has kethane (scanned by a satellite), when I start drilling, it shows green mist around the vessel, but the kethane tank remains empty. I tried putting the drills right on the tank, on another parts of vessel, tried to use large drills instead of small ones - no luck, there is green mist (as far as I understand that should indicate that kethane is being extracted), but the tank remains empty (oh and I checked, there is enough electricity generated on board). What could possibly be wrong?

[Pikachu8091]

Pretty cool, thanks!

[Rabada]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but if I attach multiple detectors to my kethane scan sat will I be able to run in a higher time warp while scanning?

[Captain_Party]

Is there anyway to raise the terrain grid? I'm playing on RSS and the scaledSpace meshes are strange. Any tips?

[Galane]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but if I attach multiple detectors to my kethane scan sat will I be able to run in a higher time warp while scanning?

Yes, but will still only scan one hex at a time and only when you are flying that ship.

[Rabada]

Yes, but will still only scan one hex at a time and only when you are flying that ship.

Thankyou! I only put one one on my sat, I'll have to try putting more on my sat next time.

[Superfluous J]

Random thought: Is there a way to scale up a single detector so it'll work at 100x, 1000x, etc on its own or is that some sort of game limitation?

In short, is it possible to make 1 scanner scan as often as 100 of them would?

[B787_300]

Random thought: Is there a way to scale up a single detector so it'll work at 100x, 1000x, etc on its own or is that some sort of game limitation?

In short, is it possible to make 1 scanner scan as often as 100 of them would?

Yes there is, edit the config so that scan period is a smaller number, personally i have mine set at a 0 scan period

[Superfluous J]

Yes there is, edit the config so that scan period is a smaller number, personally i have mine set at a 0 scan period

And there's no detriment to it? Seems there's no gameplay reason not to, but is there any frame rate loss or anything due to running it so many more times a second than default?

[psyper]

Guys, I've encountered some strange behavior. Never used Kethane before, installed the 0.8.4, constructed a vessel with a large tank and a couple of small drills, landed in on Minmus in a spot that definitely has kethane (scanned by a satellite), when I start drilling, it shows green mist around the vessel, but the kethane tank remains empty. I tried putting the drills right on the tank, on another parts of vessel, tried to use large drills instead of small ones - no luck, there is green mist (as far as I understand that should indicate that kethane is being extracted), but the tank remains empty (oh and I checked, there is enough electricity generated on board). What could possibly be wrong?

Can you post a screenshot of the miner as its drilling?

[psyper]

*Bump*

I'm doing a water add-on using the kethane API - what changes do I need to make to KethaneResource entry in the resource file for water (do I need a separate file?) in order to have one large deposit across the planet or moon. I'm thinking of applying this to Kerbin, Eeloo & Laythe. Also is it possible to choose where the deposits form on say duna for example so that the poles are covered or mun around some of the craters?

I've created an extra resource file in the resource folder and have populated it with the same values as Kethane at the moment. I know that you can over-ride the default values for each planet and moon (as some of the Kethane entries). So what values do I need to add to Kerbin, Laythe and Eeloo in order to at least have 90% coverage. I don't want one pocket, many small pockets with large values will be perfect. Also, what happens if they overlap?

[magnemoe]

And there's no detriment to it? Seems there's no gameplay reason not to, but is there any frame rate loss or anything due to running it so many more times a second than default?

Sounds like an good idea for the large detector, its so heavy its smart to make it more powerful

[Superfluous J]

Random thought: Is there a way to scale up a single detector so it'll work at 100x, 1000x, etc on its own or is that some sort of game limitation?

In short, is it possible to make 1 scanner scan as often as 100 of them would?

Yes there is, edit the config so that scan period is a smaller number, personally i have mine set at a 0 scan period

And there's no detriment to it? Seems there's no gameplay reason not to, but is there any frame rate loss or anything due to running it so many more times a second than default?

Sounds like an good idea for the large detector, its so heavy its smart to make it more powerful

After asking my question, I went in and toyed with the numbers and I see exactly 0 down side to setting the scan period to 0. And no upside in a non-timewarped game. Therefore, I consider it to be not cheating at all to make this change to BOTH normal scanners and frankly, there's no way I'd use that huge one.

Note: In my experience you can't time warp past 1000x without getting gaps, and if you're orbiting low enough you can see gaps even then with one scanner. Still, 1000x is TONS better than the 50x I had to go with my old one-scanner orbiters.

Just copy this text into a *.cfg file somewhere in your gamedata folder, assuming you have ModuleManager installed.

@PART[kethane_sensor_1m]
{
    @MODULE[KethaneDetector]
    {
        @DetectingPeriod = 0
    }
}

@PART[kethane_highGain]
{
    @MODULE[KethaneDetector]
    {
        @DetectingPeriod = 0
    }
}

Thanks magnemoe for kicking me in the bum to look into this thing that has been bugging me for some time!

[Elthy]

How does the Intake of the Kethane-Engine work? I tried to build a Duna Plane, but it seems like the special intake-resource gets used up like fuel, once its empty i dont get new air. I tested the same plane on Kerbin, the intake worked in the beginning, but it then suddenly it went from full to empty in a single frame. On my way back to the surface, much lower in the atmosphere, "KIntakeAir" went from empty to full in one frame again...

[ABZB]

I saw this error in my logfile. everything seems to be working, though:

[ERR [censored, lol]] Failed to load assembly C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Kethane\Plugins\MMI_Kethane.dll:

System.BadImageFormatException: Format of the executable (.exe) or library (.dll) is invalid.

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImage () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImageFrom (System.IO.Stream stream) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.IO.Stream stream, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.ScanForBadTypeRefs (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadExternalAssembly (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[KhaosCorp]

Note: In my experience you can't time warp past 1000x without getting gaps, and if you're orbiting low enough you can see gaps even then with one scanner. Still, 1000x is TONS better than the 50x I had to go with my old one-scanner orbiters.

Its very possible to scan for Kethane on max time warp with NO loss of per pass resolution (gaps..), its just takes ALOT of scanners to do so.

If your not wanting to build a 70+ ton satellite there are other ways to improve the scaning during high time warps.

One of thing you can do is to stagger the 'ping' of your scanners by putting them into a few different groups.....

Say you have a satellite with 24 large scanners, instead of setting them all off at once divide them into 3 or 4 groups and stagger their start times. This in itself will help alot with timewarp scanning.

[Superfluous J]

Its very possible to scan for Kethane on max time warp with NO loss of per pass resolution (gaps..), its just takes ALOT of scanners to do so.

If your not wanting to build a 70+ ton satellite there are other ways to improve the scaning during high time warps.

One of thing you can do is to stagger the 'ping' of your scanners by putting them into a few different groups.....

Say you have a satellite with 24 large scanners, instead of setting them all off at once divide them into 3 or 4 groups and stagger their start times. This in itself will help alot with timewarp scanning.

We were specifically talking about the best you could do with *one* scanner.

I still don't see why there isn't a way, programatically, to get one scanner to scan as quickly as 100 of them (or 1000 of them) do. There is no in-game benefit to quicker scanning EXCEPT the time warp thing, so it's not like you're cheating.

If there is a way, I'd love to know what it is. I'm not really a coder so don't know what it would take.

Welding 1000 scanners into one scanner, using part clipping, and making each 1/1000th the mass and power requirements?

[Majiir]

The technical limitation is that motion in KSP (and video games in general) is discontinuous. Your ship doesn't move smoothly from one position to another; it jumps in steps. Kethane scanners are coded to only scan a cell once per physics frame. I could change this, but it would be pointless; if more than one scan attempt were made in the same frame, you'd just end up scanning the same cell. It's theoretically possible to look at two on-rails orbital positions and find all the cells along the traversed path, but the mathematics are non-trivial. (Several hours of discussion in #kspmodders yielded only a greater appreciation for the problem.) For the record, if anyone does solve that problem in a complete way, I'd be happy to implement it and remove the logarithmic scaling so detectors work just as fast as expected at warp.

[federicoaa]

Hello Majiir, I would like to give you a couple of suggestions;

First, I think kethane should be tweakable by default. Even if it doesn't make sense to launch a rocket full of kethane it does for a kethane powered plane. Also, it really helps in design to see how the center of mass varies and calculate TWR under full/empy conditions. Besides, as kethane can be mined in kerbin, it's reasonable to assume the guys at KSC can get it and put it into the rocket before launching

Second, the way the integration with the toolbar works now requires two clicks to show/hide the grid and menu window, where the menu window has the option to show/hide the grid. I think it'd be better to show/hide both grid and window at the same time when clicking on the toolbar icon

Besides, I would like to ask you, have you thought on adding extra resources, or do you have something in mind?

[Superfluous J]

The technical limitation is that motion in KSP (and video games in general) is discontinuous. Your ship doesn't move smoothly from one position to another; it jumps in steps. Kethane scanners are coded to only scan a cell once per physics frame. I could change this, but it would be pointless; if more than one scan attempt were made in the same frame, you'd just end up scanning the same cell. It's theoretically possible to look at two on-rails orbital positions and find all the cells along the traversed path, but the mathematics are non-trivial. (Several hours of discussion in #kspmodders yielded only a greater appreciation for the problem.) For the record, if anyone does solve that problem in a complete way, I'd be happy to implement it and remove the logarithmic scaling so detectors work just as fast as expected at warp.

Aha, so I was right at first! I just tested it and found it's true. One Kethane scanner with a delay of 0 *is* as efficient as 1000 scanners (with the default delay) all on the same ship. I should have tested first and not taken what KhaosCorp said at face value. His idea works if you don't change the delay, but is useless if you do.

Now for the final question: What is the purpose of the delay? I see no in-game detriment to it other than keeping time warp down to 50x. With no delay you can usually comfortably cruise along at 1000x which means that instead of having to watch a couple episodes of a TV show, I can instead make coffee or something and have a planet fully scanned.