Mission: Under Pressure (land 10 Kerbals on Eve and return them to Kerbin) comes way too soon.

[jclovis3]

I'm only in the 2nd tier of the research tree and just sent a probe to Eve's SOI. Then I get this contract, "Under Pressure" which is to land ten kerbals on Eve and return them to Kerbin.

Are you Nuts?

The landing and return from Eve with just 1 to 3 Kerbals has been the most difficult challenge in KSP1. What makes you think players are going to be ready for this in KSP2 so early in the tech tree? And for only 8000 science? This is like the ultimate contract and when we're doing this for funds, it should be worth a lot. KSP1 always failed to pay out correctly for the cost of doing any surface tours so I had to change these values in the files.

I'm just saying. Landing on Eve and returning is something we should only do when we maybe have engines that can consume Eve's atmosphere like they breathe on Kerbin.

[18Watt]

Moved to KSP Suggestions.

[kdaviper]

Missions don't have to be completed in any sort of time frame, so why not just wait til you have the tech unlocked?

[Weebus]

54 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

Missions don't have to be completed in any sort of time frame, so why not just wait til you have the tech unlocked?

A round-trip to and from Eve with 10 kerbals is incredibly difficult even in sandbox mode (in both KSP1 and KSP2.) Besides a grand tour, a large-scale Eve landing and return is one of the hardest things you can do in vanilla KSP, so a mission like this should be unlocked later on OR made into a one-way-trip, like setting up an outpost.

[MechBFP]

I appreciate the challenge but I think these missions need a difficulty rating associated with them so new players have some warning as to the impossibility of that contract before you have very advanced tech. 

[Scarecrow71]

Yeah, this ranks up there in ridiculousness with landing 200 tons on Minmus for 35 science.

[jclovis3]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Yeah, this ranks up there in ridiculousness with landing 200 tons on Minmus for 35 science.

I'm working on the "Big 'n Husky" mission now which is to land on Duna with a 300 ton ship. I managed to get a massive ship in orbit of Kerbin with nearly empty tanks so I've just been making many trips from the KSC with fuel to fill it up using smaller tankers that can get into orbit with some of that fuel. Almost full, and then I'll build a hydrogen pusher to deliver it to Duna Orbit so I don't spend any of that heavier liquid fuel getting their. Should be over 600 tons by the time it's full so I have room to spare when deorbiting Duna.

I've built ships that can land and take off from Eve in KSP1 with up to 3 tourists and 1 pilot, but they all used a refueling platform that they carried attached so that I could adjust the landing legs to level it out before takeoff. We don't even have refueling yet in KSP2. Eventually I learned that struts having springs are bad when you intend to decouple the rig when you take off so I just used structures with rubber grip pads for feet. Pistons were all too weak in that gravity to level it out properly.

Not having tried Eve yet in KSP2, I wonder if they made it easier and gave us this contract early because of it. I'll get to it eventually to find out.

[kennyc222]

yeah I think this mission is nut, my PC and my brain cells will be very stressed about this mission too! It will have tons of lag of the gameplay! 

[The Wernher Von Kerman]

just the fact that you need ATLEAST 8000 m/s of deltaV to get into eve orbit is crazy, and that with maybe just a probe is almost impossible now imagine with 10 kerbals. If anyone can do this, please send a picture of the lander you used.

[Mikki]

I am doing it now, i have most of second tier and a third of the third parts by now. This will take some time but who knows, maybe its doable.

Great challenge in my opinion, absurdly hard.

12 hours ago, The Wernher Von Kerman said:

just the fact that you need ATLEAST 8000 m/s of deltaV to get into eve orbit is crazy, and that with maybe just a probe is almost impossible now imagine with 10 kerbals. If anyone can do this, please send a picture of the lander you used.

For sure i`ll post this apocalypse...

[lBoBl]

This and the 200t on minmus and others are challenge missions, you can do them if you enjoy the difficulty but they are all secondaries and trust me you don't need to do any of them to progress in the tech tree. The science is just a little bonus, the true reward is bragging rights. Getting 35 science points for minmus isn't much neither is 8000 for an Eve return mission,  you'll get more from your science experiments during the mission.

[negativeIQ]

300 tonne to Duna is kid's stuff compared to landing 10 kerbals on Eve. I don't even know where to begin with this one! I think maybe sticking ten command seats inside a cargo bay is the way to go here, but even still you need an absolute monster to get back into orbit of eve after landing, one much bigger than a trip to orbit from kerbin right? I've never actually landed on Eve yet. A Mainsail engine stuck to the medium 64 fuel tank and a quartet of kickbacks won't even get itself off the ground at sea level, and that's without any other parts! 

[Kerbart]

Does the mission state they all need to go at once? Or is it just bringing ten Kerbals to the surface of Eve and returning them to Kerbin? Like 5 missions in pairs?

[negativeIQ]

It says land on Eve in a vessel with 10 kerbals. You might be able to to bring them separately I suppose, as long as at some point they are all in the same ship on Eve's surface. That has given me an idea though, you probably send them back into Eve orbit in pairs, that would probably make it more manageable. I'm guess it's just a case of getting all 10 together for the descent through Kerbin's atmosphere, but that's the easy bit.

[Jeq]

6 hours ago, negativeIQ said:

300 tonne to Duna is kid's stuff compared to landing 10 kerbals on Eve. I don't even know where to begin with this one! I think maybe sticking ten command seats inside a cargo bay is the way to go here, but even still you need an absolute monster to get back into orbit of eve after landing, one much bigger than a trip to orbit from kerbin right? I've never actually landed on Eve yet. A Mainsail engine stuck to the medium 64 fuel tank and a quartet of kickbacks won't even get itself off the ground at sea level, and that's without any other parts! 

Dart engines ar eves surface are only way to do it. But i rather wait until upper atmosphere heating bug is solved, there is no way to get anything into surface currently, even engines burns like paper at 85km altitude.

[negativeIQ]

I thought it was bugged. I did a test (cheat) with a real shallow entry, 92km/88km, and the heat shield exploded on the first pass. It seems the only way to enter is to kill your speed before you enter the atmosphere, and it's still dicey even then. Maybe the mission is possible with a large enough craft, but I despair for my CPU trying to leave Kerbin with such a craft! 

[Jeq]

It doesn't seem possible to do that mission currently.

This was my best try, everything covered. I don't even know for sure if that is enought to get off eve but i can't get into surface,  it seems to be hardest part.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963919541/screenshot/2309848621088720064/

Used cheats to test eve encounter, if i would manage to get that into surface somehow, i would need to figure how to get that out of kerbins atmosphere

 

Edited January 1 by Jeq

[AbnormalVenegrade]

I think that using external command seats would be the easiest (and maybe only) way to do this mission any time close to when you get it. A service bay filled with 9 seats plus one Kerbal in a pod to control and extra aerodynamics might be feasible. Even so, fuel lines seem bugged at the moment, along with crossfeed, so asparagus staging is out of the mix. I honestly have no clue from there how tom design an Eve ascent vehicle like that, it'd be huge without special types of staging and might even need refueled on the surface to properly land.

[Jeq]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:57 AM, AbnormalVenegrade said:

I think that using external command seats would be the easiest (and maybe only) way to do this mission any time close to when you get it. A service bay filled with 9 seats plus one Kerbal in a pod to control and extra aerodynamics might be feasible. Even so, fuel lines seem bugged at the moment, along with crossfeed, so asparagus staging is out of the mix. I honestly have no clue from there how tom design an Eve ascent vehicle like that, it'd be huge without special types of staging and might even need refueled on the surface to properly land.

For me it seems that fuel lines works but not as they used to. Flow priority using numbers doesn't exists anymore and fuel lines are used to determine priority instead. You still need to have fuel crossfeed enabled at decouplers, fuel lines doesn't do anything else than set priority.

Edited January 3 by Jeq
typo

[negativeIQ]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:27 PM, Jeq said:

It doesn't seem possible to do that mission currently.

This was my best try, everything covered. I don't even know for sure if that is enought to get off eve but i can't get into surface,  it seems to be hardest part.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963919541/screenshot/2309848621088720064/

Used cheats to test eve encounter, if i would manage to get that into surface somehow, i would need to figure how to get that out of kerbins atmosphere

 

I think heat shields are a lost cause for this encounter! I reckon it takes 5000 m/s of dv from a bunch of chemical rockets, like the 300 tonne to Duna mission, only far more grotesque. Will probably want them in a line rather than radial as to protect the return to orbit craft. Will give this a go tomorrow, since it seems I've finished all other missions. 

[MechBFP]

If you take a normal sea level Eve lander (1 Kerbal in a MK1 command pod), use a probe core, and stick 10 kerbals in command chairs inside a cargo bay, you can likely do it with relatively the same difficultly as in KSP1. That is as long as they don’t need to touch the surface with their feet. 
 

The biggest problem  is fitting them in a cargo bay in a way that doesn’t make the lander too wide or too tall compared to a single command pod. 

Drag is absolutely the biggest design factor for an Eve lander in KSP1, with dV being the second factor, assuming you can get the thing to the surface in the first place. 

Edited January 3 by MechBFP

[Jeq]

13 hours ago, negativeIQ said:

I think heat shields are a lost cause for this encounter! I reckon it takes 5000 m/s of dv from a bunch of chemical rockets, like the 300 tonne to Duna mission, only far more grotesque. Will probably want them in a line rather than radial as to protect the return to orbit craft. Will give this a go tomorrow, since it seems I've finished all other missions. 

Heatshields can take it, but they seems to let some temperature trought and causes fuel tanks to explode and vessel turn around too. So far i managed to drop this to 55km from surface but still lot to go, thats the point where speed starts to slow down very fast but wings and tanks get burnd.

By the way it seems that game has some ablator check at top of atmosphere, if there is no heatshields at all then parts are destroyed when entering edge of atmosphere

Edited January 3 by Jeq

[jclovis3]

Back when I played KSP1 a lot more, I was running a major tourism operation. You might briefly see my spreadsheet in this video. I had a craft that seats up to four with a two stage launch from Eve's surface. I made use of the refueling tech to allow me to burn retrograde entering the atmosphere so I could top off my tanks after landing. Upon launch from the surface, of course I left the refueling rig behind. The rest of the tourists on this trip were in orbit of Gilly so that craft would head to Eve Low Orbit to rendezvous with the lander after it returned to orbit.

The KSP2 missions says the Kerbals have to return, but I don't know if they have to return on the same ship that carried them to the surface. In either case, I would recon I would have to use a transport ship to carry the lander back to Kerbin. Without having fuel refineries yet, this contract is going to be a headache. I might have to go back to the old onion peel approach.

 

[Jeq]

KSP 2 definetly needs paintable ablators.

[ww1612]

Finally, get this mission done.

 

However, the mission tracker might have some bugs...