Francise scott key bridge. Could it be remade immune to damage?

[farmerben]

You have to have some speed for the rudder to provide control.  8.5 knots is not very fast, though it probably would have been fine at half that speed.  

The ship also has a bow thruster for low speed maneuvering, but that probably failed along with everything else when the power went out.

I'm still not clear on whether they dropped anchors before the collision.  In such a scenario the anchors probably would not have dug in and done much, but it's one more thing to try.

 

 

Edited March 27 by farmerben

[Nuke]

6 hours ago, tater said:

Dunno about those sorts of bumper designs, but you'd think with a sharp point, the bow would then glance off—and the barrier can be at some distance. Have such barriers been built at any other port?

100000 tons. thats a thousand direwolves. say goodbye to the free rasalhauge republic. the bridge pier didn't stand a chance.

[Nuke]

5 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Anti-ship stone posts across the river.

  Reveal hidden contents

The main question is:
Afair, the captain had called 911 or so and reported about the ship, which lost control, and possible bridge ramming.
It would take seconds to call the nearest road police car and tell them to put the car across the road to stop traffic.
I believe, there is a pack of police cars near a big bridge, sitting in bushes and hunting the road rule violators.
And?

Is explained in another thread. The traffic was stopped, the construction crew on the bridge was not warned.

you can see the whole thing from the city cam video. power failures, the clearing of the bridge (in the minutes before traffic was light but consistent). i bet they called it in when they first lost power, i cant imagine 911 dispatch being that fast in baltimore. wonder why the word wasn't passed to the construction crew. judging by the length of the ramps it was likely out of bullhorn range and the crew was probably operating loud machinery wearing hearing protection and not listening to the radio.

[Nuke]

29 minutes ago, farmerben said:

You have to have some speed for the rudder to provide control.  8.5 knots is not very fast, though it probably would have been fine at half that speed.  

The ship also has a bow thruster for low speed maneuvering, but that probably failed along with everything else when the power went out.

I'm still not clear on whether they dropped anchors before the collision.  In such a scenario the anchors probably would not have dug in and done much, but it's one more thing to try.

 

 

wasnt sure about the thrusters on the ship. wikipedia article indicated single prop shaft. but on most designs with omnithrusters or lateral bow thrusters, the motors tend to be electric.

[farmerben]

Quote

Dali is propelled by a single low-speed two-stroke crosshead diesel engine coupled to a fixed-pitch propeller. Its main engine, a 9-cylinder MAN-B&W 9S90ME-C9.2^[11] unit manufactured by Hyundai Heavy Industries under license, is rated 41,480 kW (55,630 hp) at 82.5 rpm.^[2] Its service speed is 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph).^[5] For maneuvering in ports, Dali has a single 3,000 kW (4,000 hp) bow thruster.^[4] Electricity is generated by two 3,840 kW (5,150 hp) and two 4,400 kW (5,900 hp) auxiliary diesel generators.^[4]

[Nuke]

this ship didn't even have a wikipedia article until it hit the bridge, now its full of data. thruster data wasn't there when i read the article this morning.

[StrandedonEarth]

56 minutes ago, Nuke said:

this ship didn't even have a wikipedia article until it hit the bridge, now its full of data. thruster data wasn't there when i read the article this morning.

That'll happen when it becomes infamous...

[tater]

That tiktok guy said the power failed, backup diesel came online, allowing anchor to be dropped. He suggested that helm input before power failure could be effectively cached so that when power recovers (even backup?) helm command then executes (which they'd then have to correct). Assuming I understood him correctly.

[farmerben]

I can understand relying on a generator to power all ship systems.  But critical systems should be on a battery.

[RCgothic]

It's certainly theoretically possible to protect bridge piers from collisions. But in the specifics of cost/obstruction of navigation channel/river bed conditions it may not be practically possible to adequately defend every existing bridge.

If I were a security agency I'd be pretty nervous about deliberate follow up attacks right about now.

[PakledHostage]

Casual Navigation has already done a video on this. He tries to stick to the known facts. (His videos are always of high quality.)

 

Edited March 27 by PakledHostage
Fixed link

[kerbiloid]

A "Jettison cargo" emergency option is needed.

To let the containers slide back and make the ship lighter.

And lower.

[Nuke]

just stick an srb on the bow.

[TheSaint]

The problem with any of these solutions, serious and not serious, is that they cost money. And people are generally unwilling to spend money on said solutions until something happens that makes the need for the solutions glaringly obvious. As happened yesterday. As it is, watch how the "need" for any sort of solution (aside from the obvious ones, such as clearing the wreckage and rebuilding the bridge) becomes less and less apparent as the disaster gets replaced in the news cycle.

[PakledHostage]

I do think you will see the people responsible for infrastructure (like bridge and power line support towers) that are potentially vulnerable to collisions by ships to take a serious look at it. They'll at least do enough to cover their butts in case something happens on their watch... They'll commission an engineering study, write a report, seek government funding for the improvements recommended in the engineering study, they'll be denied the necessary funding, then they'll place the report and funding denial documents in a safe place to be pulled out if there's ever a problem. 

[insert_name]

8 hours ago, Nuke said:

you can see the whole thing from the city cam video. power failures, the clearing of the bridge (in the minutes before traffic was light but consistent). i bet they called it in when they first lost power, i cant imagine 911 dispatch being that fast in baltimore. wonder why the word wasn't passed to the construction crew. judging by the length of the ramps it was likely out of bullhorn range and the crew was probably operating loud machinery wearing hearing protection and not listening to the radio.

Dispatch audio was released, they said that they were blocking traffic with two cars, working on getting a car to get the crew off the bridge when the ship hits

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6349808520112

[TheSaint]

1 hour ago, PakledHostage said:

I do think you will see the people responsible for infrastructure (like bridge and power line support towers) that are potentially vulnerable to collisions by ships to take a serious look at it. They'll at least do enough to cover their butts in case something happens on their watch... They'll commission an engineering study, write a report, seek government funding for the improvements recommended in the engineering study, they'll be denied the necessary funding, then they'll place the report and funding denial documents in a safe place to be pulled out if there's ever a problem. 

I feel so much safer now....

[Superfluous J]

46 minutes ago, TheSaint said:

I feel so much safer now....

If it's any consolation, that means as bad things happen over and over, things get safer over time.

[Nuke]

any safety is an illusion anyway. sure we learn where the gotchas are, sometimes there is something that can be done, but usually theres not, and if it is human ingenuity will inevitably find a new way to screw up. all while everyone involved tries to cya while families of the dead cry out for blood and those in power are more than willing to give it to them.  its the price of progress, otherwise we risk getting eaten by a bear when we leave our cave.

Edited March 28 by Nuke

[kerbiloid]

What's more expensive, the ship or the bridge?

[farmerben]

4 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

What's more expensive, the ship or the bridge?

Lawyers or Insurance companies?

[darthgently]

44 minutes ago, farmerben said:

Lawyers or Insurance companies?

Lloyds of London:  bad day

Lawyers: money party

[kerbiloid]

I just had an idea about a small, twin-torpedo, bridge guarding submarine, which could stop the ship before ramming.

Spoiler

But then  got a doubt: maybe it should be guarding the ship from bridges. As I have no idea of their price.

[Nuke]

3 hours ago, darthgently said:

Lloyds of London:  bad day

Lawyers: money party

oh please, they are both playing with money guns right now.

[farmerben]

Insurance companies can usually borrow the money to pay off claims, then increase rates to cover the loan.  Who benefits?  The other insurance companies who can easily raise rates right now.