Instead of Elon Musk (horrible idea) How about Dean Hall?

[RayneCloud]

So, just putting this out there..

This is Dean, saying that Rocketwerkz has been working on a "Space Program Game" and actively reaching out to former IG peeps. (I think you all should reach out to him, former IG peeps.) Dean has also stated before, (if someone else can find it, I'm having trouble finding it, heard it was on reddit) that Rocketwerkz tried to get the contract for KSP2. Not that I am saying that T2 would sell the franchise off to Rocketwerkz, I doubt they'll do anything other than sit on the franchise and let it rot... but with Juno in really good shape, KSp1 doing really well with mods and well even KSp2 as it is right now being a somewhat playable-ish, game, something else coming out from Rocketwerkz could really give this community a new home to look forward to.

Thoughts Kerbal Fam?
 

Oh, https://rocketwerkz.com/ - their website if you don't yet know who dean hall and RocketWerkz is (Stationeers, Icarus, Art Of the Real, etc)

Edited May 4 by RayneCloud

[Fizzlebop Smith]

KSP has an element of Quirk that's.. just right.

It's very difficult to quantity, but that was one of my complaints regarding the sequel... the campiness was taken a bit too far.

I did not like the suggestion that hands set up the discoverables, It had been taken a bit over the top for me.

That aside, it is what drew me so wholely to the franchise. I have said a few times, that the courage / stupidity metrics had me sold instantly.

Summarizes how the Kerbals were able to conquer the Cosmos with toaster ovens and washing machines.

I always imagine the evolutionary progression of the Doozers from Fraggle Rock. I would like some spiritual successor to maintain that perfect level of cheese that KSP1 community / OG dev team nailed so well. 

I still have my dream of a Lego version that does something like levels of physics as different options.

If you do stumble across the next game that*screams* KSP vibes.. please for love of all that is good and holy.. shoot me a DM.

[RayneCloud]

5 minutes ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

KSP has an element of Quirk that's.. just right.

It's very difficult to quantity, but that was one of my complaints regarding the sequel... the campiness was taken a bit too far.

I did not like the suggestion that hands set up the discoverables, It had been taken a bit over the top for me.

That aside, it is what drew me so wholely to the franchise. I have said a few times, that the courage / stupidity metrics had me sold instantly.

Summarizes how the Kerbals were able to conquer the Cosmos with toaster ovens and washing machines.

I always imagine the evolutionary progression of the Doozers from Fraggle Rock. I would like some spiritual successor to maintain that perfect level of cheese that KSP1 community / OG dev team nailed so well. 

I still have my dream of a Lego version that does something like levels of physics as different options.

If you do stumble across the next game that*screams* KSP vibes.. please for love of all that is good and holy.. shoot me a DM.

I would really suggest giving Juno New Origins a try, but outside that, I have a KSP1 mod list I could share if you want any advice on a mod build?

[Fizzlebop Smith]

1 minute ago, RayneCloud said:

I would really suggest giving Juno New Origins a try, but outside that, I have a KSP1 mod list I could share if you want any advice on a mod build?

I have juno and am enjoying it. But the mission dynamic is more contract centric and less on the exploration. I do like the ease to DL craft & having logic as a core game feature.

Rocket Science is *looking* interesting.. it's about to drop an "agency" DLC.

the only thing that kinda sucks about rocketwerkz is the stacked on charges for DLC. I understand the need to monetize and think thats a million times better than MTX,  just gets pricey. Really does allow for an elevated quality of content.

Yes, I would absolutely love a new modlist to compare notes. Have a Vanilla install sitting in a folder waiting for just such an occasion

[RayneCloud]

1 minute ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I have juno and am enjoying it. But the mission dynamic is more contract centric and less on the exploration. I do like the ease to DL craft & having logic as a core game feature.

Rocket Science is *looking* interesting.. it's about to drop an "agency" DLC.

the only thing that kinda sucks about rocketwerkz is the stacked on charges for DLC. I understand the need to monetize and think thats a million times better than MTX,  just gets pricey. Really does allow for an elevated quality of content.

Yes, I would absolutely love a new modlist to compare notes. Have a Vanilla install sitting in a folder waiting for just such an occasion

I'll toss it at ya some time this weekend.

[cocoscacao]

30 minutes ago, RayneCloud said:

I have a KSP1 mod list I could share if you want any advice on a mod build?

Put it here, or DM me as well please. I have an itch to scratch now... 

Edited May 4 by cocoscacao
Added politeness

[RayneCloud]

3 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Put it here, or DM me as well please. I have an itch to scratch now... 

Fair play! I'll toss up a full post with my load order.

 

[Cryptobux]

I don't agree with everything you post, but this is 100% on target!

A proper spaceflight game that takes inspiration from the old franchise without being constrained by the lore would be something I would totally support. I actually think it's quietly happening already, and the demise of KSP2 just increases the potential for such a proposition.

[FleshJeb]

I think it’s considered polite to let the body cool before engaging in necromancy.

I’m just teasing, I know you’re doing it out of love, but I’d have been OK if the franchise died after 1.3.  It peaked there or in 0.25. People would have kept playing and modding, and we would have had a better end product.

Maybe the future of space sims (preferably whimsical!) is better served by a different IP with less baggage?

I’m fairly sour on the games industry as a whole. I can’t see myself buying anything for the next 3-5 years. My back catalog can easily sustain that, and I started reading for pleasure again. I killed 6 novels in one week, and it was fantastic.

[Cryptobux]

To see the IP go to a company who would construct a bespoke engine is encouraging. I'm no software engineer and I have no idea what obstacles that presents to a project like this, but it can only be a better platform than Unity.

[RayneCloud]

Thanks for the kind words @FleshJeb and @Cryptobux, glad you agree. Also, yeah, the body is "still warm" so to speak... but this might have some real "Hope" to it... yeah?

Also as promised - 

For @cocoscacao and @Fizzlebop Smith here ya go.

[C3ndre]

Rocketwerkz did a great job with Stationeers. They even tried to do a space program. 
So, why not. At least they have a "science" oriented mentality. And it's a great thing. 

Edited May 4 by C3ndre

[Skorj]

I don't think I've liked a single game he's made, but I'd still likely give a proper space sim a try.

3 hours ago, Cryptobux said:

To see the IP go to a company who would construct a bespoke engine is encouraging. I'm no software engineer and I have no idea what obstacles that presents to a project like this, but it can only be a better platform than Unity.

If they're really constructing a full engine from scratch, the project has already failed (I think in the past 20 years only Factorio has managed both an engine and a good game)..  But more likely they're building a physics engine for orbits on top of an existing game engine, which is the obvious way to go. 

 

[Flush Foot]

2 hours ago, Skorj said:

If they're really constructing a full engine from scratch, the project has already failed (I think in the past 20 years only Factorio has managed both an engine and a good game

Maybe it took an update or two to get there, but wasn’t “The Division” a reasonably good game, on a brand-new engine? (SnowDrop or something)

[LameLefty]

2 hours ago, Skorj said:

but I'd still likely give a proper space sim a try.

It’s totally unlike KSP but is, in fact, a REAL SPACE sim, but I give you RE-ENTRY:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/882140/Reentry__An_Orbital_Simulator/

If instead you want a quirky SF-themed exploration/science’y sort of game (and it’s even coded with a full dose of Unity-jank!) I high, highly recommend THE PLANET CRAFTER (and it’s got an amazingly evocative soundtrack to boot):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1284190/The_Planet_Crafter/

And if you want to see what a skeleton crew of developers can build if they refuse to sell out to a big name publisher, stick to what they’re REALLY good at, and adhere to their vision like glue, I give you FACTORIO. If you’re the slightest bit OCD you will love it, or hate it, and quite possibly both.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/

Edited May 4 by LameLefty

[RayneCloud]

3 hours ago, LameLefty said:

It’s totally unlike KSP but is, in fact, a REAL SPACE sim, but I give you RE-ENTRY:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/882140/Reentry__An_Orbital_Simulator/

If instead you want a quirky SF-themed exploration/science’y sort of game (and it’s even coded with a full dose of Unity-jank!) I high, highly recommend THE PLANET CRAFTER (and it’s got an amazingly evocative soundtrack to boot):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1284190/The_Planet_Crafter/

And if you want to see what a skeleton crew of developers can build if they refuse to sell out to a big name publisher, stick to what they’re REALLY good at, and adhere to their vision like glue, I give you FACTORIO. If you’re the slightest bit OCD you will love it, or hate it, and quite possibly both.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/

I'd also throw out this one - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1069190/Flight_Of_Nova/

[Jacke]

@RayneCloud, this is a wonderful idea, one of your many wonderful ideas.  I'll have to look at RocketWerkz games more closely and follow the company to see what they put out.

 

6 hours ago, Skorj said:

If they're really constructing a full engine from scratch, the project has already failed (I think in the past 20 years only Factorio has managed both an engine and a good game)..  But more likely they're building a physics engine for orbits on top of an existing game engine, which is the obvious way to go.

I think also Dwarf Fortress has a custom game engine and it's an amazing success.  That engine was also built over ~20 years as well.

As it's been described to me, having a game engine that does what KSP does/should do, go from sub-metre-sized components to interstellar distances is rather challenging in ways that most game engines just don't really tackle as a standard.  And it's not easy to add that in either.  Games like Elite: Dangerous and similar ones need that.  It comes down to either massive addons and modifications of existing engines or building their own.  In either case, keeping either massive customizations or a full blown engine patched and under development and improvement is rather challenging.

It would actually be really good if such a Large-Scale-Range Space-Game engine was established as a free/open software project.  It would need a core group of developers of high skill and dedication to marshal it and keep it going, but if it was there and game studios who wanted to build Space games that need such an engine could use it as a base with then fewer and smaller customizations.

[Stevie_D]

I can understand why emotions are high and folk are looking for help from anywhere... but I don't know why people are desperately throwing crackpot ideas around of asking  space industry experts to save a video game... it's a wishful fantasy.

Business people who are not in a certain industry rarely move into that industry. I'm not saying it's unheard of, but the vast majority of business people who are in an industry and know it inside out are the ones that are most likely to invest in that same industry.

So you're better off throwing out proposals to publishers and game studios with a history of producing space or scifi games.

But the biggest problem of all is that they'd have to negotiate with Take 2 for the rights to KSP. And, to put it frankly, despite the lay offs, Take 2 don't *need* to sell and KSP doesnt represent a big enough franchise that would recoup them a lot of money. If they did, they would've already. That means they can ask any ridiculous price they want and be as annoying as they want in any negotiations. Take 2 aren't known for playing friendly and, like Disney, can just let an IP sit on their back catalogue dead for years... just to be safe that no competitor made a better product with the IP and make the money they should have done.

 

[Jacke]

18 minutes ago, Stevie_D said:

I can understand why emotions are high and folk are looking for help from anywhere... but I don't know why people are desperately throwing crackpot ideas around of asking  space industry experts to save a video game... it's a wishful fantasy.
....
But the biggest problem of all is that they'd have to negotiate with Take 2 for the rights to KSP. And, to put it frankly, despite the lay offs, Take 2 don't *need* to sell and KSP doesnt represent a big enough franchise that would recoup them a lot of money. If they did, they would've already.  ....

Musk is no "space industry expert"; SpaceX where it's done well is despite Musk.  Musk is no saviour either.  The less said about Musk the better.

But you're very right about Take Two and KSP.  Unless they can get a lot of dosh for selling it and they really need that dosh, they will not sell KSP.  For at least the fear that someone could do a great job with KSP and make their decision to sell look very bad.  And even moreso take gamers money in KSP sales that Take Two wants for themselves.  Because the AAA Gaming Corporations WANT ALL THE MONEY.

[mattihase]

I can imagine the community here being just as angry with rocketwerkz's development speed and bugfix records as they have been with IG.

 

Then again the community would probably get mad at any studio that don't have game development god beams.

[Skorj]

10 hours ago, Jacke said:

As it's been described to me, having a game engine that does what KSP does/should do, go from sub-metre-sized components to interstellar distances is rather challenging in ways that most game engines just don't really tackle as a standard.  And it's not easy to add that in either.  Games like Elite: Dangerous and similar ones need that.  It comes down to either massive addons and modifications of existing engines or building their own.  In either case, keeping either massive customizations or a full blown engine patched and under development and improvement is rather challenging.

You just need to add your own game-appropriate physics engine to Unreal (or whatever) for orbits.  Doing that entirely from scratch would indeed be hard.  Fortunately, real people have solved those problems for real spaceflight, and much of the work is published and easily available,  Want to simulate orbits in a way that is accurate to double-precision floating point, and takes only a few nanoseconds to compute?  Not only is there a paper telling you how, there are multiple competing papers trying to one-up each other and optimize even further.

It's not easy in the sens of "I could do it in a week", but it's easy in the sense of "a small team could do it in 6 months".  So, too big for Felipe working by himself evenings and weekends while working full time for a marketing company called Squad, but it shouldn't have been an obstacle for a well-funded team.

Edited May 5 by Skorj

[RayneCloud]

So, if you are all interested in a lot of the back end systems in KSP (scaled space vs local space, PQS, floating origin, floating velocity reference frame, quaternion3d and vector3d doubles,. etc...) I would like to point you to Harv and Mu's Unite talk that took place 10 years ago on Sep 20th of 2013.

KSP 1 was not, easy. It took years. KSP 2, would have also taken years, and Juno New Origins has taken years, so has every other major space flight game with any level of simulation. Turns out that not on is "space hard" but making space... is also hard.

[Skorj]

Very cool link, thanks!  Perhaps we have a different baseline for "hard", when it comes to software.  For sure, I've done more with less, but that's professional software guys and not game devs, so maybe you've the better baseline. 

[mattihase]

When I was in Uni I worked on a project that had similar game world ( or rather game solar system) environment needs to KSP, and that video as well as harvesteR's old tumblr helped me a great deal in sorting out my own code, but I can definitely say for sure that a lot of the tech involved is very awkward and has a lot of edge cases you have to deal with, especially when integrating it with an existing engine's physics system. That's where things especially have the habit of going wrong. And that was for a fraction of the systems involved in ksp.

Because I have direct personal experience with this sort of stuff I can say I absolutely say I have sympathy and respect for anyone taking that sort of thing on even in a team. It's a flipping menace to work on.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

On 5/5/2024 at 3:21 AM, mattihase said:

I can imagine the community here being just as angry with rocketwerkz's development speed and bugfix records as they have been with IG.

 

Then again the community would probably get mad at any studio that don't have game development god beams.

That’s assuming RW would work as slow and as bad as IG. 

Why would they? RW actually has some successful releases under their belt.