[1.12.5] Gradual Progression Tech Tree - A mod-focused, slower early game tech tree (0.2.4)

[AlphaMensae]

30 minutes ago, Yaroslav said:

 

Yep, I saw that image earlier, and that's my plan.  There's still space for my nodes  

[loki130]

I'd personally rather not clutter up the center of the tree like that, and I'm also not inclined to charge extra science for parts that don't strictly have any necessary gameplay function

[The Dressian Exploder]

Has anyone else had a bug where starting tech parts are impossible to unlock because the entry costs can't be paid (either through a faulty button or it showing up in Science mode)

On an unrelated note, how did you manage the conversion of a YongeTech tech tree to a stock tech tree? I'd be interested in making some configs for this tree using ksp-techtree-edit.

[loki130]

Version 0.2.2

github

- Switched the id of starting node back to 'start' to fix issues with part unlocking and adjusted stock nodes patch accordingly

4 hours ago, The Dressian Exploder said:

Has anyone else had a bug where starting tech parts are impossible to unlock because the entry costs can't be paid (either through a faulty button or it showing up in Science mode)

On an unrelated note, how did you manage the conversion of a YongeTech tech tree to a stock tech tree? I'd be interested in making some configs for this tree using ksp-techtree-edit.

Pretty sure that issue should be fixed

To do the conversion, I save the tree as both a yongetech tree and a stock tree, then use a little python script to pull all the part unlocks from the yongetech tree and turn them into a modulemanager patch, and the stock tree and patch are what actually go into the mod. You can find the yongetech tree and python script on the github. Trouble is of course that this means that most parts are added in one big patch (though any parts instantiated by modulemanager patches don't appear in the editor, so I have to track those down and write out dedicated patches for them, which is most of what's in the additional patches folder), so if multiple people are working on additions that way it might get a bit tricky to consolidate them together.

[Dash1310]

Never mind I misunderstood a mechanic

Edited November 23 by Dash1310
I figured out the issue I was having.

[Mitokandria]

Oh wow! I might finally be able to use BDB!

Would you consider adding support for:

Smart Parts
Radial Heat Shields
Pathfinder

[Steakthedog]

So, I'm attempting a game of this with an assortment of mods, including Kerbal Construction Time, and for some reason attempting to research anything in this tech tree bricks the KCT menu completely, making it impossible to do anything. This is occurring in the current most recent version. If you can see what might be causing this that would be great.

[loki130]

5 hours ago, Steakthedog said:

So, I'm attempting a game of this with an assortment of mods, including Kerbal Construction Time, and for some reason attempting to research anything in this tech tree bricks the KCT menu completely, making it impossible to do anything. This is occurring in the current most recent version. If you can see what might be causing this that would be great.

I've seen it before but never quite tracked down the exact cause, it seems to relate somehow to how KCT determines tech prerequisites and I thought I was rid of it but I think messing around more with the stock nodes to get the lost and found tech has brought it back, lemme try a few things.

[loki130]

Version 0.2.3

github

Changelog:

- Added mod support:
    - Boring Crew Services: airbag placed in advanced parachutes for now, will need to consider a more general approach for balloons and inflatables eventually
    - TAC Life Support first pass: parts added, not sure how the overall balance plays yet
- Attempted to get unsupported parts upgrades to go in Lost and Found, not sure it works great so far.
- Adjusted patch ordering to get it to play nice with KCT, you still get some logspam the first time you research a tech in a new save, but it clears with the next scene change.

 

For TAC-LS, I placed Air filters, water splitter, and all the container parts in Orbital Modules, sabatiers and water purifiers in Orbital Habitation, and carbon extractors in Integrated Life Support, let me know if that seems to work okay. I'll still need to track down parts for TAC-LS added by other mods like planetary bases.

 

[Steakthedog]

Can confirm the KCT fix works, thanks! I do really think this is an interesting Tech Tree, and hope you can make even more mods work with it.

[Yaroslav]

On 11/24/2024 at 8:41 PM, loki130 said:

 

@ локи130 Извините, но можно ли добавить поддержку следующих способов?
1.CryoEngines_Extensions
2.Internal_RCS
3.RestockPlus-(Restock+)
4.B9 Аэрокосмический пакет
5.Kerbal NRAP
6.Конструктор Artemis

Many details are simply located here..

Edited November 27 by Yaroslav

[Engineer Gaming]

yeah, I agree with the post above. Support for Artemis construction kit would be nice as well as Cryo Extensions. Also is there support for the USI Malemute rovers?  (Great mod btw can't wait to try it on a new save :D)

[loki130]

18 hours ago, Yaroslav said:

@ локи130 Извините, но можно ли добавить поддержку следующих способов?
1.CryoEngines_Extensions
2.Internal_RCS
3.RestockPlus-(Restock+)
4.B9 Аэрокосмический пакет
5.Kerbal NRAP
6.Конструктор Artemis

Many details are simply located here..

Restock plus should already be supported, the rest I could look into though I may need to spend some time thinking about what exactly to do with b9 (I'd also like to add OPT at some point incidentally but the latest beta has some dependency issues)

12 hours ago, Engineer Gaming said:

yeah, I agree with the post above. Support for Artemis construction kit would be nice as well as Cryo Extensions. Also is there support for the USI Malemute rovers?  (Great mod btw can't wait to try it on a new save :D)

Malemute is supported

[Engineer Gaming]

When I started a new save the "lost and found" branch was there, am i supposed to see that? also could you maybe look into support for Stockalike mining extention? since it would fit quite well in the later game with all the different mining and resource gathering parts and IRSUs

[loki130]

Version 0.2.4

github

Changelog:

- Added mod support:
    - Artemis Construction Kit
    - Blushift: First to use the FTL tech
    - CryoEngines Extension: crowds the end cryogenic engines techs a bit, but they fit well enough
    - Internal RCS
    - NRAP
    - Radial Heat Shields: all just go in the heat shield tech
    - Smart Parts Continued: mostly distributed in avionics
- Fixes:
    - Tracked down a lot of dual-mod compatibility parts (DMagic, US2, KPBS, KIS, KAS, TAC-LS)
    - Tidied up node spacing a bit because the LFO line was bothering me
    - Added patch for the WBI sas upgrades
    - Moved the misplaced TS-37 separator

9 hours ago, Engineer Gaming said:

When I started a new save the "lost and found" branch was there, am i supposed to see that? also could you maybe look into support for Stockalike mining extention? since it would fit quite well in the later game with all the different mining and resource gathering parts and IRSUs

Does stockalike mining work with system heat? I think that's why I stopped using it, but at any rate the parts would be easy enough to add

Lost and Found contains any parts from unsupported mods, though I forgot to turn on the hideEmpty flag before this update so you may have still seen it even if you didn't have any

[Yaroslav]

20 hours ago, loki130 said:

Версия 0.2.4

Github

Список изменений:

- Добавлена поддержка модов:
- Artemis Construction Kit
- Blushift: первый использует технологию
FTL - Расширение CryoEngines: немного теснит конечные технологии криогенных двигателей, но они достаточно
хорошо подходят - Внутренняя RCS
- NRAP
- Радиальные тепловые экраны: все просто входят в технологию
теплозащитного экрана - Smart Parts Continue: в основном распространяется в авионике
- Исправления:
- Отследил множество деталей, совместимых с двумя модами (DMagic, US2, KPBS, KIS, KAS, TAC-LS)
- Немного подчистил расстояние между узлами, потому что линия LFO меня
беспокоила - Добавлен патч для обновлений
WBI sas - Перемещен неправильно расположенный разделитель TS-37

Работает ли майнинг stockalike с системным теплом? Думаю, именно поэтому я перестал им пользоваться, но в любом случае детали было бы достаточно легко добавить

Lost and Found содержит все детали из неподдерживаемых модов, хотя я забыл включить флаг hideEmpty перед этим обновлением, поэтому вы, возможно, все еще видели его, даже если у вас их не было

Ok, you can also add support for mods from the MKS mod extension

Namely:
Konstruction
USI Exploration Pack
Throttle Controlled Avionics-Its parts are an extension of the work that go as details during research

Also.. I think that some parts like batteries from the mod
Near Future Launch Vehicles there are battery blocks of 5 and 7 sizes, I think that it is worth changing their placement, but definitely not at the beginning of the game.

Edited November 30 by Yaroslav

[Yaroslav]

I think here you can add another menu of the electricity block, where you can shove batteries of a better stage of the game than all at once.. For example, from the mod:  
Near Future Solar

[loki130]

2 hours ago, Yaroslav said:

Ok, you can also add support for mods from the MKS mod extension

Namely:
Konstruction
USI Exploration Pack
Throttle Controlled Avionics-Its parts are an extension of the work that go as details during research

Also.. I think that some parts like batteries from the mod
Near Future Launch Vehicles there are battery blocks of 5 and 7 sizes, I think that it is worth changing their placement, but definitely not at the beginning of the game.

I think Konstruction should already be there, I can look at the other USI mods, I didn't know TCA even had parts.

I don't see much point separating the batteries like that, I don't think the energy density is that different so it's essentially just convenience to be able to have one part in a stack that large rather than having to find some way to fit in multiple smaller batteries, and by the point you need batteries that large you're probably in the ate midgame studying 1000+ techs, so like any separate big batteries node would have to either have a cost in proportion to that tiny extra convenience, in which case it'll probably be negligible by that point and so just be pointless clutter on the tree, or have a cost wildly out of proportion to actually present a significant barrier at that point in the game, in which case it's just not worth it to actually unlock.

[The Dressian Exploder]

I think editor clutter is something to consider here -a giant 5m battery isn't going to be needed during the point in a run where your largest tanks are 1.5m. And still, there are technical challenges with building a battery that big. As far as I'm aware all the LFO tanks have similar fuel densities, and it takes several techs to reach the bigger sizes, so surely larger batteries would have their own technological challenges too?

[loki130]

9 hours ago, The Dressian Exploder said:

I think editor clutter is something to consider here -a giant 5m battery isn't going to be needed during the point in a run where your largest tanks are 1.5m. And still, there are technical challenges with building a battery that big. As far as I'm aware all the LFO tanks have similar fuel densities, and it takes several techs to reach the bigger sizes, so surely larger batteries would have their own technological challenges too?

Once you get BDB you're going to have to find a way to deal with editor clutter regardless, I suggest filter extensions and getting in the habit of sorting by mass or size.

Fuel tanks are a more essential part, they basically set the size of the stack, so available diameter is a more substantial barrier; you can always cheat your way to a wider rocket by bolting multiple small stacks together, but it's generally not as effective or easy as having a single large stack; so locking larger tanks behind techs has a significant enough impact on rocket design to create an interesting challenge and tradeoff in research prioties, but the science cost is still kept fairly low so that the investment feels worth it compared to the alternative of just multi-stacking (tank length on the other hand has much less impact, because there's very little functional difference between 2 short tanks in a row vs 1 long tank, hence why I mostly just group all tanks by diameter).

Large batteries are just much less important; you're not going to be building a 5 m rocket from battery parts alone, and if you're building a 5 m rocket the lack of an available 5 m battery isn't going to substantially impact your design, so I don't really see a scenario where you research a large battery tech other than as a "might as well" once the cost is low compared to your science income (or if it's an intermediary to better techs, but then it's not really worth it itself and so effectively just extra cost to that next tech). Maybe if it was 2.5+ m battery parts that would be a bit more substantial, but even then it feels like annoying the player into buying a tech for the convenience rather than creating an interesting challenge before it's unlocked and then feeling like a worthy reward for the science investment.

[Engineer Gaming]

Been playing the mod for a few days and I'm really enjoying it! Thanks for adding suppory for Artemis! Is the Habtech station parts supported? Also could you look into support for Missing history pls? Thx! 

 

[Engineer Gaming]

On 11/30/2024 at 12:39 AM, loki130 said:

On 11/29/2024 at 3:26 PM, Engineer Gaming said:

 

Does stockalike mining work with system heat? I think that's why I stopped using it, but at any rate the parts would be easy enough to add

So does that mean you have plans to maybe add support? also from what i found it mentioned coreheat (im assuming in reference to the old mod) and since system heat is a replacement it might work off the bat or with some tweaking. I might try it in a sandbox save so see if it does and i'll let you know the results when I find out. Thx again for the good mod!

[loki130]

13 minutes ago, Engineer Gaming said:

Been playing the mod for a few days and I'm really enjoying it! Thanks for adding suppory for Artemis! Is the Habtech station parts supported? Also could you look into support for Missing history pls? Thx! 

 

Someone told me they were working on compatibility for habtech2 and a few other mods, but haven't heard back in a while so may look into it if I don't. Trouble is it doesn't have great life support compatibility so there's not much for placing the hab parts (which may also make them a bit pointless in-game), but it does actually look like there may be a lot more in there worth getting regardless. Missing history I can add to the list as well.

Core heat is the stock heat system, I think system heat has to be specifically patched over.

[Engineer Gaming]

10 minutes ago, loki130 said:

Someone told me they were working on compatibility for habtech2 and a few other mods, but haven't heard back in a while so may look into it if I don't. Trouble is it doesn't have great life support compatibility so there's not much for placing the hab parts (which may also make them a bit pointless in-game), but it does actually look like there may be a lot more in there worth getting regardless. Missing history I can add to the list as well.

Core heat is the stock heat system, I think system heat has to be specifically patched over.

I think the habtech station parts make sense to come before the SSPXr parts because they are current and sspxr is more potential in the future also maybe i might try my hand at patching system heat based on how system heat patches stock mining

[loki130]

48 minutes ago, Engineer Gaming said:

I think the habtech station parts make sense to come before the SSPXr parts because they are current and sspxr is more potential in the future also maybe i might try my hand at patching system heat based on how system heat patches stock mining

Generally I want all parts to be placed based on actual gameplay functionality rather than just aesthetic or conceptual qualities, though admittedly some of the adapters and tubes are classified as hab rather than structural parts based largely on aesthetics (unless you have CLS maybe).

Stockalike mining has been wanting for some good patches for a while now, but do test it first to see how the parts are working, I vaguely remember trying to use some of the big drills a while back and they didn't work at all (but that was with mks as well so who knows where the issue came from)