Ex-Annapurna Video-Game Staff to Absorb Former Take-Two Indie Label

[PDCWolf]

From archived Bloomberg

Quote

Their new company, which does not yet have a name, will inherit the games and franchises of Private Division, the label formerly owned by Take-Two Interactive Software Inc., according to people familiar with the deal.

Quote

In recent weeks, according to the people familiar, Haveli struck a deal with the ex-Annapurna staffers to fund the new company and place them in charge of distributing the former Private Division titles, including Tales of the Shire, out March 25, a farming game based on The Lord of the Rings. They will also take over the popular Kerbal Space Program series as well as an unannounced title from Game Freak, the developer and co-owner of the Pokémon franchise.

When Haveli purchased Private Division from Take-Two, it inherited around 20 employees, some of whom will be laid off as part of the new arrangement, said the people familiar, although the specifics have not yet been finalized. The current leadership of Private Division has told employees to explore their options due to the uncertainty surrounding their jobs.

Just to cool heads, there's no mention about going forward with the development of KSP2, but they're the new owners.

Edited Tuesday at 05:03 PM by PDCWolf

[Hydrotass]

I'm excited to see where this goes, if they decide to keep developing KSP2 or decide to sell the IP to another Game Company who wants to continue work on KSP2, anyways we've only got pure speculation right now we just got to see where they take it

[Mr. Kerbin]

Okay… and they don’t have a name? (As a group) Just “Ex-Annapurna Video Game Staff?” Maybe we should just call them the E-AVGS.

Jeez, TT was desperate to get PD off their backs.

And before this turns into a multi-page long rant….

first.

[PDCWolf]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

Okay… and they don’t have a name? (As a group) Just “Ex-Annapurna Video Game Staff?” Maybe we should just call them the E-AVGS.

Jeez, TT was desperate to get PD off their backs.

And before this turns into a multi-page long rant….

first.

Well, at some point our new "Private Division" was "Haveli Investments", as many around here correctly guessed (not the name, just the fact it was no one related to games). Considering it's Haveli striking a deal with these Ex-Annapurnas... Haveli Games?

 

[NexusHelium]

Man there were only 20 people left at PD they really gutted that company, huh.

[Lisias]

At least some good news. These guys did some really impressive work in the past, I still play Journey every Xmas.

[JOHNMKNIGHT]

I wish the new owners of the IP, the very best. I hope they either become or pass the baton to the best custodians for our little green friends. 

Ad Astra! 

[chefsbrian]

49 minutes ago, Lisias said:

At least some good news. These guys did some really impressive work in the past, I still play Journey every Xmas.

Annapurna was only the publisher there, as they were only the publisher on all the titles associated to them. Their only in-house developed game isn't out yet, so we have no idea how their game development talent plays out.

That's not to doom and gloom it, unproven hands are just as likely to be good as bad, only that saying that this new group are the developers that made Journey or Stray is like saying that KSP2 was developed by the same guys who made Red Dead Redemption 2. The best plausible news out of this is that there is now someone in place who can discuss bringing in a new studio to try and finish KSP2, or move onto a new KSP game - I consider both exceedingly unlikely in the immediate future, but its now gone from "Pipe dream" to "questionable but possible decision"

[AlphaMensae]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

Well, at some point our new "Private Division" was "Haveli Investments", as many around here correctly guessed (not the name, just the fact it was no one related to games). Considering it's Haveli striking a deal with these Ex-Annapurnas... Haveli Games?

 

Yep, the prime speculation was that a private equity firm and not a game publisher had bought the PD properties.  Turned out to be correct, and now we have a name.

Don't get too excited, all this team-up of Haveli and the ex-Annapurna staff may do is just distribute the former PD games, but if that keeps KSP alive then that's a plus at least.

[PDCWolf]

27 minutes ago, AlphaMensae said:

but if that keeps KSP alive then that's a plus at least.

This source didn't say anything about further development and... Annapurna has published some great games, and is already making one, and none of those are anywhere near KSP2s budget from what I've seen.

[AlphaMensae]

19 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

This source didn't say anything about further development and... Annapurna has published some great games, and is already making one, and none of those are anywhere near KSP2s budget from what I've seen.

"Alive" as in continuing to exist and be available  

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, chefsbrian said:

Annapurna was only the publisher there, as they were only the publisher on all the titles associated to them. Their only in-house developed game isn't out yet, so we have no idea how their game development talent plays out.

I stand corrected, just checked : the guys that made the game were the thatgamecompany, and they are currently working on Sky Children of the Light. Oh well, at least I found their new game and I'm installing the EA to see what I get.

[Lisias]

20 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Well, at some point our new "Private Division" was "Haveli Investments", as many around here correctly guessed (not the name, just the fact it was no one related to games). Considering it's Haveli striking a deal with these Ex-Annapurnas... Haveli Games?

AFAIK, the company name is Whanau Interests LLC, being also known as Haveli Investments, LP.

LP means Limited Partnership, while LLC means Limited Liability Company. These are two conflicting business structures, so it's time to someone wiser step up and explain the mess. At least on my country, you can't be a LTDA and also a S.A. (the more or less equivants to LP and LLC respectively).

In a way or another, Haveli also bought a Mobile Game Studio called Candivore (from Israel, apparently) last year, and in the previous year, bought a fraction from a Canadian Game Studio called Behaviour Interactive (between many games, Dante's Inferno for PSP - I played this one).

—— Hack, Hack, Slice and Hack again — — 

Humm… I think I found the answer.

In 2022, Whanau received a 500M USD funding from Apollo Global Management Inc, while Haveli Investments LP was funded on 2022. So they probably took the funds to delist Whanau from Stock Exchange after buying all the stock.

Apollo Global Management Inc are headquartered in New York and they are the current owner of Yahoo (I will decline to further comment). These guys are monstrously huge, controlling about 600B USD. They make Tencent look as a tinny little kitten.

Money will not be a problem for these guys (ex-Annapurna devs), but it will not come easily neither. No one keep control of 600B USD in assets by being nice.

Edited 16 hours ago by Lisias
Tyop! Surprised?

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

Money will not be a problem for these guys (ex-Annapurna devs), but it will not come easily neither. No one keep control of 600B USD in assets by being nice.

It will: They have zero experience with projects at the budget-scale KSP2 was placed at. It'd be their most risky play if they even dare ask for money to assemble a team to continue development. And even then, the current state of the game's market is what it is.

They might try other things with the IP... or maybe they just were interested in the GameFreak project. Sadly, until they decide to speak, we're still more or less where we were, we just know some decent people are involved... as part of a not so decent business structure.

[Lisias]

5 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

They might try other things with the IP... or maybe they just were interested in the GameFreak project.

On the bright side, no Pachinkos. But on the other hand, Apollo Global owns some investments in Las Vegas...

[Kerbart]

8 hours ago, Lisias said:

On the bright side, no Pachinkos. But on the other hand, Apollo Global owns some investments in Las Vegas...

What are the chances they care more about Tales of the Shire and less about KSP and look to offload the IP to any willing party (RW?)

On the one hand I'd have thought that by now they would already gave sold it to Rocketwerkz. OTOH, I don't think RW needs the KSP IP to make KSA a success. So they can afford to hold out for a low price.

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, Kerbart said:

On the one hand I'd have thought that by now they would already gave sold it to Rocketwerkz.

And on the one hand, you'd think that someone would have come in here and made an official announcement as to who purchased the studio and such.  But, as has become all too common with this franchise, the community is left in the dark.

[Lisias]

7 hours ago, Kerbart said:

What are the chances they care more about Tales of the Shire and less about KSP and look to offload the IP to any willing party (RW?)

They don't care. At all. They care about the money, how the money will flow is Haveli's problem - it's the reason they buy companies instead of doing things themselves.

If they decide to offload the KSP IP, they will do for the best offer and if the offer is not good enough, they are big enough to just sit over it or try something different leveraging the popularity of the franchise.

We are not talking about a Indie Game Studio anymore. We are talking about some dudes that offered 11B USD to buy Paramount. These guys have money and means to do a whole new movie franchise about Kerbals and hire Keanu Reeves as Jebediah and Sandra Bullock as Valentina if they find it may worth the shot. Heck, they can hire the whole Ghostbusters Afterlife crew as support characters for KSC.

Forget about just games, this is a whole new level of Entertainment/Entrepreneurship. They can just build a fscking Cassino in Las Vegas about Kerbals if someone there thinks this will give them more money than releasing a game. Heck, they can build KSC in full scale and make it a water park if they want.

So if they decide to offload the IP, it's because they could not find a way to make any money from it - and if they didn't found a way to make money from it, this is a serious red flag to anyone willing to try their luck...

 

7 hours ago, Kerbart said:

On the one hand I'd have thought that by now they would already gave sold it to Rocketwerkz. OTOH, I don't think RW needs the KSP IP to make KSA a success. So they can afford to hold out for a low price.

Rocketwerks have about a 8.1M USD/year in revenue. Gross revenue, don't have the slightest idea about net profit.

Oukey, Haveli itself have about 11M USD/year in revenue, so the companies are more or less similar in size. But Haveli is part of a conglomerate that worth about 100B USD themselves and control assets summing up t 650 BILLION DOLLARS. We are talking about 1.52 Elon Musks here.

And this new "Haveli Games" will have access to all that assets if they prove the IP worth a shot.

Right now, I don't think they will even answer RW's calls - they have a lot of homework to do before even considering offloading something.

Edited 8 hours ago by Lisias
Hit "Save" too soon

[PDCWolf]

5 minutes ago, Lisias said:

So if they decide to offload the IP, it's because they could not find a way to make any money from it - and if they didn't found a way of make money with it, this is a serious red flag to anyone willing to try their luck...

In a smaller scale, this statement would apply to Take Two as well... they had a revenue of 1.5B, though thanks to investing 2.0B in GTA VI they've been on the red for a while. Even then their worth sits at 32.2B before the release of GTA VI which everyone knows is gonna break some records.

TakeTwo could've done some amazing-sized attempts at things with the franchise, and just like you say, they didn't find a way to make money with it, they actually lost $. Now, of course, Haveli can go knock on Apollo's door, but for risk-averse, quick buck, infinite growth investors of today, a cold franchise with an EOL product and a second one that failed to get off the ground... is not a good look.

1 hour ago, Kerbart said:

On the one hand I'd have thought that by now they would already gave sold it to Rocketwerkz. OTOH, I don't think RW needs the KSP IP to make KSA a success. So they can afford to hold out for a low price.

Do we have anything outside of these forums that confirms interest from Rocketwerkz in purchasing the franchise at all ?

[Kerbart]

2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

And on the one hand, you'd think that someone would have come in here and made an official announcement as to who purchased the studio and such.  But, as has become all too common with this franchise, the community is left in the dark.

That's my point. So obviously, it hasn't been sold (yet?)

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

Right now, I don't think they will even answer RW's calls - they have a lot of homework to do before even considering offloading something.

I'm not convinced RW is even interested to initiate the sale, and the offer would more go in the other direction, if Haveli wants to offload it.

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

Do we have anything outside of these forums that confirms interest from Rocketwerkz in purchasing the franchise at all ?

From what I've seen so far, I doubt there is any interest. Certainly not for recognition/marketing purposes their "KSA" approach seems to be doing just fine in reaching the target audience. At most it would safeguard them from copyright/trademark lawsuits but:

• Copyright requires RW to copy parts of the game (code or assets) and they are clearly not doing that
• Trademark requires "confusion" by the (potential) buyers of the game. Not only does the ("blink blink") Kitten approach prevent that, given the state of KSP2 it's entirely in RW's interest to be very clear they have nothing to do with the PD product. So they're in the clear on that, too.

So unless they get the chance to buy it for next-to-nothing (less than the cost of a lawsuit × the low probability of it) I doubt they are that eager to get it.

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

In a smaller scale, this statement would apply to Take Two as well... they had a revenue of 1.5B, though thanks to investing 2.0B in GTA VI they've been on the red for a while. Even then their worth sits at 32.2B before the release of GTA VI which everyone knows is gonna break some records.

Different objectives, different mindsets.

TTWO wants the most revenue possible on the lest effort feasible. It's the reason they are betting everything on GTA IV, and ditched P.D. Indie games are a hell of a work, a lot of risk e comparatively low RoI.

On the other hand... Apollo Global bought Yahoo some time ago and... Yahoo is still online. It's a different mindset - they reduce their risk by buying popular/famous trademarks in trouble, sanitize them and them make a profit from the thing on the long run. They call themselves "Apollo Global Management" for a reason - they don't make neither create anything, they buy who does and then manage them.

And as any reasonably competent Manager knows, it's safer to own 100 companies giving you 1M USD revenue each in average than relying on a single company giving you 100M USD. Your chances of survival on the long run dwindle a lot on the later.

Apollo Global will outlive TTWO, make no mistake about.

 

2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

TakeTwo could've done some amazing-sized attempts at things with the franchise, and just like you say, they didn't find a way to make money with it, they actually lost $.

Management. Of lack off...

 

2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Now, of course, Haveli can go knock on Apollo's door, but for risk-averse, quick buck, infinite growth investors of today, a cold franchise with an EOL product and a second one that failed to get off the ground... is not a good look.

It's exactly the other way around. How many popular characters do you know had flown into space? I know two, Snoopy and the other, what could be? Mickey Mouse?

These dudes don't buy anything at their peak. They make money doing exactly the inverse. If whatever they bought managed to get back half of the popularity/profitability it had at its peak, it's already a huge RoI.

Heck, KSP is still strong on China. If they just do a good facelift on KSP 1.12 fixing the bugs (without creating worst ones) and sell it only on China, it's already a huge market with very good chances of profitability.

You are still thinking as a Game Studio professional. Get over this mindset, we are talking about money and long run investments now. They don't care about making the last possible nickel of a single source of revenue, they aim to make the best on average, leveraging their size to minimize risks and maximizes gains.

They don't dig for gold, they sell shovels.

Edited 11 hours ago by Lisias
Hit "Save" too soon

[Linkageless]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

Keanu Reeves as Jebediah

Woa...  dude!  I always imagined Jeb as more of a Ryan Reynolds.  Keanu could be Bill.  No argument about Sandra Bullock's role, but she needs to get a slavic accent right.

Seriously though, I'd love to see RW pick up the glitsy bits of KSP2 and work it into a rebranded KSA, but I think things are too far gone for that to happen now.  I think the best outcome we could hope for now is KSP2 development to resume in the form of some DLCs to deliver what we really were looking forward to, but even that seems like a fantasy.

If we keep plugging away at the mods on both games, then they'll have a reason to keep the community alive.

 

 

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, Linkageless said:

Woa...  dude!  I always imagined Jeb as more of a Ryan Reynolds. 

Burt Reynolds and Scarlett Johansson perhaps?

 

3 hours ago, Linkageless said:

Seriously though, I'd love to see RW pick up the glitsy bits of KSP2 and work it into a rebranded KSA, but I think things are too far gone for that to happen now.  I think the best outcome we could hope for now is KSP2 development to resume in the form of some DLCs to deliver what we really were looking forward to, but even that seems like a fantasy.

I think KSA has a uphill battle ahead. IMHO they best chance of success is KSP2 just dying, not only as a videogame, but as IP.

Anyone managing to get a tiny success on a side rig, like a cartoon or even a B Movie intended to broadcasted on Hallmark on a Sunday's afternoon will took a lot of audience from them.

Most people are betting on KSA because they think KSP is dead, and not because KSA is going to be great (or not).

Any sign of KSP getting back to life will shake (or shackle) things around here.

(I like "my" Kerbals a lot)

Edited 8 hours ago by Lisias
Of cuorse, tyops!

[Linkageless]

6 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Scarlett Johansson

You read my mind

7 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Burt Reynolds

That would be an impressive feat of AI, I think.

 

11 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I think KSA has a uphill battle ahead. IMHO they best chance of success is KSP2 just dying, not only as a videogame, but as IP.

Maybe all they need to do is prove that KSA is a worthy KSP3 and Haveli will buy them too.  I can't say I've thought this through, but the possibilities are endless.

[boolybooly]

This is interesting -

"Annapurna Video-Game Division Imploded Because of Power Struggle".

https://archive.is/TtTDX

Its always the same when you are jumping someone else's train...

Its too early to know how this will pan out, it depends on whether Nathan Gary wants to establish a studio for KSP2, he would not be short of applicants. Previous Annapurna productions do include a lot of adventure puzzle RPG oriented games.

KSP looks like an engineering physics sim and it is but has a lot of puzzling to do and it is beautifully open and self consistent. Then there is the backstory of the Kerbals and the monuments and artifacts, the personality of the kerbals, their faces and expressions which are their great appeal and the astonishing adventure of going from one world to another, where no Kerbal has gone before, possibly.

I wonder if KSP2 would interest him or whether it will need to transmigrate to another development universe to find fulfilment in the Kafkaesque jungle of modern gaming, like the beetle of Coccoon.

Time will tell. Glad I have plenty of other games to play while we wait...