[1.0.5] FASA 5.44

[Kerbal01]

How many other mods do you have installed? It's likely running up against the memory limit.

Just FASA and JSI, definitely a memory issue.

took a Gemini on a lunar orbit mission on a Titan IIIC, preformed lovely.

[darqen27]

I know this isn't a FASA issue but since I'm using a FASA rocket (FASA Pioneer Delta) I was hoping I could get some advice. When I launch the rocket, everything seems to run smoothly for the first part of the flight. But shortly after SRB sep, at around 10km, the rocket flips over. I can sometimes resolve it if I make sure the fuel pulls from the lowest part of the rocket first by manually transfering fuel between the three tanks that make up the first stage, but I don't really want to do that. My Acent profile is set to start my gravity turn at 100m/s, turn end at 90km, 0 final angle and 40% turn shape. I've even checked the center of mass in the VAB with various amounts of fuel and the indicator is always well below the center of the rocket. Any ideas what the issue might be?

Turn off corrective steering and limit AoA to 3 - 5 Degrees

[chrisl]

Turn off corrective steering and limit AoA to 3 - 5 Degrees

Corrective steering is already off but I'll try and AoA limit. Normally I fly with it set to 10 but I'll try the lower amount and see. THanks.

[frizzank]

As for Apollo take the floats off the bottom, they may be clipping into the decoupler.

Launching the Saturn V is much harder now. I recommend Kerbal Joint Reinforcement it will help. Also slow down your launch. Stay under 250m/s until you get to about 15km then you can go to 450 until 28km. If you still need extra stability use the vainer thrusters.

[Rhedd]

This is my all-time favorite mod, but I don't understand what's going on with the landing legs. I was running the first version of FASA for 1.0, and I couldn't select the Gemini lander legs (either part) in the VAB. Clicking on the icon did nothing. Now, after upgrading to the newest version of FASA, which said it fixed a problem with landing legs, I still can't select the Gemini lander legs, NOR can I select the Gemini pod legs at all.

I used to use those mini lander legs ALL the time, so I really need a solution to this. I've tried it with no mods but FASA installed and it behaves exactly the same way. What's up?

- - - Updated - - -

A note on flying the Saturn V: You may not know, since I only learned this the other day, that at a certain altitude the real Saturn V shuts down its center S1 engine, and then does the same thing with the center S2. This is to keep the speed down as the TWR goes up. I intend to try the same thing, and I suspect it'll solve a lot of problems with flipping at mid-altitude.

[chrisl]

As for Apollo take the floats off the bottom, they may be clipping into the decoupler.

I'm doing a career mode so I can't use all of the ship files that come with FASA yet. All I've been doing with the CSM so far is with the parts that I have available which means I built it myself. Haven't purchased the tech with the floats yet so those can't be a factor. it's just the CM, heatshield, decoupler and SM, setup in that order.

On another note, I'm still having issues with the Atlas engines even after the latest release. The Atlas-Agena setup will fly (just) but the Atlas-Centaur doesn't have enough TWR at sea level to get off the ground with a 1t payload. So FASA has the ability to recreate the Centaur upper stage but there isn't a rocket (other then Saturn which was never actually used with the Centaur) that it can be used with. Supposedly, IRL, the LV-3A and LV-3C both used the same sustainer engine (LR-105-5) and basically the same boosters (LR-89-5, though the 3C really had about 8% more thrust and 3% better ISP), but the current engines just don't have the thrust. Considering the real LR-89 engine (between it's two thrust chambers) produced nearly four times as much thrust as the LR-105, I have to guess the issue main I'm having is with the Atlas Booster Engine which (between it's two "thrust chambers") only produces the same thrust as the sustainer. But I don't think simply uprating the boosters is the answer. More likely, the sustainer needs to be reduced as well. I know FASA isn't trying for 100% realism, which is fine by me. I'd just like to be able to fly the Atlas-Centaur and the current engines just don't seem to be enough.

[MrWolf83]

Hi, guys

I'm a recent purchaser of KSP and have been playing for a about 2 months I think and have just come across this MOD and am having issues with getting the pre-assembled ships to load with it saying along the lines of "this contains locked items" or something like that. But I've added the Mod to the folder according to instructions, but feel like since this is my first time dealing with a PC game that I can Mod this way that I am doing something wrong or adding something into the wrong folder. Is there anyway I can get a screen shot of one of ya'lls folders showing where I need to put everything in the Mod to get it to work properly?

Appreciate it.

Nick

[chrisl]

Hi, guys

I'm a recent purchaser of KSP and have been playing for a about 2 months I think and have just come across this MOD and am having issues with getting the pre-assembled ships to load with it saying along the lines of "this contains locked items" or something like that. But I've added the Mod to the folder according to instructions, but feel like since this is my first time dealing with a PC game that I can Mod this way that I am doing something wrong or adding something into the wrong folder. Is there anyway I can get a screen shot of one of ya'lls folders showing where I need to put everything in the Mod to get it to work properly?

Appreciate it.

Nick

Are you playing in Career or Sandbox mode? If you're in Career mode, it likely means you haven't unlocked all the tech nodes you need for the vessel.

[MrWolf83]

Are you playing in Career or Sandbox mode? If you're in Career mode, it likely means you haven't unlocked all the tech nodes you need for the vessel.

Sandbox

[Rhedd]

Sandbox

Start up the "FASA sandbox" saved game that FASA comes with (after putting it in the proper saves directory), and make sure you can load the ships there. You really shouldn't be having any problems like that in a sandbox game.

And really, am I the ONLY person that can't select the Gemini lander landing gear from the menu?? Nobody else has that problem?

[Kerbal01]

Got my Saturn v working like a beut, just needed a more powerful computer.

[chrisl]

Start up the "FASA sandbox" saved game that FASA comes with (after putting it in the proper saves directory), and make sure you can load the ships there. You really shouldn't be having any problems like that in a sandbox game.

And really, am I the ONLY person that can't select the Gemini lander landing gear from the menu?? Nobody else has that problem?

I can't either but since I hadn't tried using them yet, I really haven't looked into what the issue might be.

[MrWolf83]

Start up the "FASA sandbox" saved game that FASA comes with (after putting it in the proper saves directory), and make sure you can load the ships there. You really shouldn't be having any problems like that in a sandbox game.

And really, am I the ONLY person that can't select the Gemini lander landing gear from the menu?? Nobody else has that problem?

Are you refering to the persistent.sfs file in the FASA5.22.zip>saves>FASA Sandbox folder?

[Rhedd]

Are you refering to the persistent.sfs file in the FASA5.22.zip>saves>FASA Sandbox folder?

Take the entire "FASA Sandbox" folder and drop it in your "Kerbal Space Program/saves" folder, then start the game, choose continue, and pick the FASA Sandbox save. Play around in there to make sure everything is installed correctly.

[MrWolf83]

Take the entire "FASA Sandbox" folder and drop it in your "Kerbal Space Program/saves" folder, then start the game, choose continue, and pick the FASA Sandbox save. Play around in there to make sure everything is installed correctly.

Got it thanks, will attempt this tonight.

[MrWolf83]

Got it thanks, will attempt this tonight.

Thanks Rhedd, everything worked great, minus my ability to dock, and the fact that anytime or speed I launch the Voyager, right at 2,000m the top half flops Southward and points ship back to Kerbin. Also, when launching with rocket that utilizes a launch tower, 90% of the time the tower will all of a sudden be floating with me space and part of it still showing up in staging.

[Voidwolf]

There seems to be a missing Node from the bottom of the Apollo CSM Engine, anyone else have this?

De-couplers will attach to the top of the engine, but will not decouple properly leaving everything still attached.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Voidwolf

[M3Man03]

Shouldn't the Apollo CM have the detailed interior from RPM? My Apollo only has a very small number of switches/dials.

[Demigod]

I have just the launch towers installed due to memory constraints, and it seems like when I launch using any of them, they immediately teleport back to my ship once they reach the max physical distance, resulting in a tagalong launch clamp constantly warping to within a few meters of my ship. Any ideas?

I have this as well it is very odd. It seems to be using the launch clamps as the debris falling from the launching ship?

[wasmic]

There seems to be a missing Node from the bottom of the Apollo CSM Engine, anyone else have this?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/richwebster/apolloCSMengine.jpg

De-couplers will attach to the top of the engine, but will not decouple properly leaving everything still attached.

You're supposed to use the SLA to adapt from the rocket to the Apollo spacecraft. This will leave quite a bit of empty space under the Apollo, but that's how it was done IRL too (on Saturn V there was a lunar lander in the empty space, and on Saturn IB it was either emtpy, or there was a docking adapter for the ASTP).

[frizzank]

The landing legs are still using the old "name = ModuleLandingGear" module in the .cfg. they need to be updated to the new "name = ModuleLandingLeg"

Changing that fixed it. Or you can wait till tonight and I will upload another fix.

example for the lander leg part

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleLandingLeg
	animationName = Gemini_Lander_Leg_Part
	deploySpeed = 0.75
	retractSpeed = -0.75
	randomSpeedFactor = 0.1
}

The Apollo CSM engine Is designed to be used with the SLS plate and fairings. The bottom node is at the top because if it was at the bottom of the engine it would be impossible to place the LEM or any other payload under it without it snapping to the engine bell.

As for the missing craft files I am going to do another clean install of my own mod on a separate machine and see what happens.

I tweaked the Mercury Atlas engines for 5.33, I have no problems getting Agena or any other similar payload to a 120k orbit with just the Atlas engines boosters and fuel tanks. Other setups will require you to adjust your weight booster engines or payload.

Hints for launching FASA craft.

You can no longer do max thrust from launch to orbit.

Keep your speed under 240m/s until you get to the second half of the atmosphere and speed up slowly.

Start your gravity turn later and gradually after you get to 18,000km.

Make sure you drop the boosters as soon as the Atlas main engine can sustain your velocity. This is dependent on the weight of your craft and your speed.

Edited May 7, 2015 by frizzank

[chrisl]

Historically, the Atlas - Agena (LV-3A + Agena A) could put around 800kg into GTO. The "FASA Gemini Agena Atlas" craft that comes with FASA, midified to lift a basic Pioneer probe (using stock AE-FF1 fairing and TR-2V decoupler) can manage that just fine. It still has an SLT of 1.24 and plenty of dV for the launch and maneuvers. I can even add on most of the scientific gear, extra power and some extra RCS fuel and still have a 1.2 SLT.

The problem is if I try to build an Atlas - Centaur (LV-3C + Centaur C) which used basically the same engines (looks like maybe 8% more thrust and 3% more isp but that could be simple inaccuracies in the wiki's I'm using). If I remove the "Atlas Adapter Liquid Fuel Tank Tall" and replace it with a "Gemini Short 2.5m Liquid Fuel Tank" (so there's the same amount of fuel), and replace the Agena with an approximation of the Centaur (probe brain, Gemini Medium Silver Liquid Fuel tank, Gemini Centaur Engine Plate and 2x Apollo Centaur RL-10 Engines), the Atlas engines now only manage an SLT of 0.95. That's without any payload. It drops to 0.92 if I put that same Pioneer satelite onto this rocket. So it can't even leave the launch pad.

I figured, okay, maybe the Centaur in FASA is only meant to launch on the Titan (even though it was never used on the Titan II which is really the only Titan engines we have). But the Titan only gets an SLT of 0.96 with that same small satelite. Basically, in order to make it possible for the Atlas - Centaur to put a 1700kg payload into orbit, I reduced the main engine thrust by 20%, increases the booster thrust by 80% and increased the Isp of both by 5%. That results in an SLT of 1.18 and enough dV in the Atlas stage to reach a low sub-orbital altitude, leaving the Centaur stage to complete the orbit and for maneuvers.

I guess the question I should probably be asking is this. If the Atlas engines aren't meant to be used with a Centaur upper stage, what is the Centaur supposed to be launched with in FASA? I'd guess on the "Titan III" but you don't get the boosters until "Very Heavy Rocketry" and the Centaur parts are available at "Advanced Rocketry". Anyway, I'm not asking you to change anything in FASA. I'm happy using module manager to make adjustments. I'm just pointing out things that confuse me.

[StoryMusgrave]

It's because this is not replica, balance is tough when you don't use real numbers, and one certainly isn't going to get real results. RealismOverhaul fixes much of this, but requires much more.

[frizzank]

Historically, the Atlas - Agena (LV-3A + Agena A) could put around 800kg into GTO. The "FASA Gemini Agena Atlas" craft that comes with FASA, midified to lift a basic Pioneer probe (using stock AE-FF1 fairing and TR-2V decoupler) can manage that just fine. It still has an SLT of 1.24 and plenty of dV for the launch and maneuvers. I can even add on most of the scientific gear, extra power and some extra RCS fuel and still have a 1.2 SLT.

The problem is if I try to build an Atlas - Centaur (LV-3C + Centaur C) which used basically the same engines (looks like maybe 8% more thrust and 3% more isp but that could be simple inaccuracies in the wiki's I'm using). If I remove the "Atlas Adapter Liquid Fuel Tank Tall" and replace it with a "Gemini Short 2.5m Liquid Fuel Tank" (so there's the same amount of fuel), and replace the Agena with an approximation of the Centaur (probe brain, Gemini Medium Silver Liquid Fuel tank, Gemini Centaur Engine Plate and 2x Apollo Centaur RL-10 Engines), the Atlas engines now only manage an SLT of 0.95. That's without any payload. It drops to 0.92 if I put that same Pioneer satellite onto this rocket. So it can't even leave the launch pad.

I figured, okay, maybe the Centaur in FASA is only meant to launch on the Titan (even though it was never used on the Titan II which is really the only Titan engines we have). But the Titan only gets an SLT of 0.96 with that same small satelite. Basically, in order to make it possible for the Atlas - Centaur to put a 1700kg payload into orbit, I reduced the main engine thrust by 20%, increases the booster thrust by 80% and increased the Isp of both by 5%. That results in an SLT of 1.18 and enough dV in the Atlas stage to reach a low sub-orbital altitude, leaving the Centaur stage to complete the orbit and for maneuvers.

I guess the question I should probably be asking is this. If the Atlas engines aren't meant to be used with a Centaur upper stage, what is the Centaur supposed to be launched with in FASA? I'd guess on the "Titan III" but you don't get the boosters until "Very Heavy Rocketry" and the Centaur parts are available at "Advanced Rocketry". Anyway, I'm not asking you to change anything in FASA. I'm happy using module manager to make adjustments. I'm just pointing out things that confuse me.

Wow that was an extremely well written document on the differences between FASA Atlas and the real one.

I could increase the thrust on the Atlas engines and boosters by 8% giving them 325 and 162 also Lowering the weight of Centaur parts by a bit would get it off the pad. You would also want to probably take out some of the fuel from the main tanks as well. I'm not sure how much fuel they used for Centaur but I'm guessing it was a bit less than what it was for Agena since for Centaur the second stage was what got them the rest of the way into orbit instead of relying on the main Atlas engines for the whole thing.

[Rhedd]

Thank you for the information about the landing gear. Glad it's an easily fixable problem.

Since we're discussing realism and FASA rocket launches, I thought I'd share my experiences with launching the Apollo-loaded Saturn V in the new KSP aerodynamic model.

I love the Saturn V, and spent a lot of time in 0.25 getting it to fly a realistic flight profile, so I was anxious to see how it flew after 1.0. As a quick test, I loaded up the SV from the FASA sandbox game and gave it a whirl. Using my old MechJeb flight profile, it would always tumble and die at around 13km (about the time the air got thin and the pressure got high). I assumed this was because of pushing against max Q, so I set up the engines to do what they do in real life, and had the center F-1 shut down at about 12km. This fixed the problem perfectly and it went into orbit every time. The only problem was that a launch TWR of 2 is way higher than reality, so my next step was to reduce that and see what happened...

As a dirty job, I reduced thrust on the S1 engines until the launch TWR was about 1.2 (the real Apollo 11 SV was about 1.18). I didn't adjust the fuel amounts or anything, so as I said, this was a very dirty job just to see how the aerodynamics worked. The result was that soon after clearing the tower, the rocket would lean in some random direction (usually North or SW, for some reason) and fail. I tried over and over again with different MechJeb settings, but the lean happened too soon in the flight and could never really be compensated for. Finally, frustrated, I started taking the ship apart. That's when I noticed that the SV in the FASA sandbox save has tons of added vernier thrusters and struts to compensate for problems in flight...

So I built a new one, 100% clean. Just the parts you'd expect to be on the actual vehicle. No extra struts, no extra RCS, nothing but a pure SV with Apollo payload. It flew perfectly from then on.

So, this is the MJ setup I used, which will probably be surprising to folks that think you should head straight up through the atmosphere before turning, but it's quite realistic: Gravity turn start @ 0.2km, turn end at 69km, shape 75%. Limit AoA to 5deg (still experimenting with that), corrective steering off. Have the center S1 engine shut off at 12km, and the center S2 shut off at 40km (still experimenting).

Using those settings a clean Apollo SV will make it into a 200km orbit with fuel to spare.

Next comes trying to get it into orbit without having to shut off engines and coast at any point, and without having fuel still left in the S2. I think this is a MechJeb problem, though. It likes to outrun the Apoapsis and then have to coast to catch up before circularizing.

Hope this helps anyone having problems launching a moon mission!