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It's currently a sandbox game, so it's best to treat it as a sandbox.

rodion_herrera

By rodion_herrera
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rodion_herrera

rodion_herrera

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I debated on whether just to add this as a response to some of the topics pertaining to issues with v0.20's "terrible" performance, or start a new topic about it, but I think it's worth to start a new topic because, due to the fact that (based on what I've read so far) over 80% of these bad issues seem to have something to do with mods/addons and "my super-duper-complex base and spacestation built from stock".

Well, I would like to encourage users/players to rethink, if possible, how they treat the game, so as to not keeping being disappointed each time a new update gets released. Simply put, it's time to be practical and realistic.

KSP as of now, is a sandbox game, as stressed by the "greyed-out" option for career after you press "Start New Game"--sandbox IS the only option. As such, people have to try and temper their zest and eagerness to create "balls-to-the-wall" complex missions that attempt to "skirt around" the fact that the game doesn't have a career path, because I believe, the more complex your spacecraft or station or base is, the more chances (I say chances, it's not a sure thing) your current "grand mission" game will go kaput, each time a new update gets released.

Now I'm definitely NOT saying that people should stop being creative, because that ironically is what a sandbox is supposed to encourage--creativity. What I'm saying is, how KSP sometimes draws us and compels us, makes us forget the very fact that it is not robust enough yet for a grandesque career-type campaign mode. I'm simply trying to let those who are fond of doing those grand tours and complex structures to temper their enthusiasm with the knowledge of the game's state.

I even have a feeling that perhaps the main reason why Squad hasn't given any word of a release for the "career" mode of the game, is PRECISELY because perhaps, they found out that once you get to very complex scenarios (i.e. tons of objects/debris/ships/bases/stations), the very fact that the game is processor-dependent, will produce MIXED outcomes for every other user. This is purely speculation of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is currently the major showstopper for them, and they can see "shadows" of that issue, each time they update KSP and see that most of the problems cropping up for other players are related to mods and/or persistent/saved files that contain a LOT of stuff "spawned" into a game-state.

So again, I am not discouraging people to keep doing their complex missions--I simply wish they temper that attempt with the knowledge that at some point in the future, all of that might go poof once an update is made, esp. if they created something really superfluous and gargantuan. How does that saying go? Like if it has a million parts, expect a million problems, or something like that. That has always been my mindset, and that's perhaps why my "progress" in "playing" this game sandbox style has been slow (I haven't even gone beyond Minmus yet).

I don't really know if this post is useful or has any point, I merely just wanted express what I think is a good mindset to adapt for KSP, if only to ease the pain and discomfort of "losing" your current Mun base or space station.

-RODION

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rodion_herrera

rodion_herrera

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I completely agree with this post. It's too bad the part of the forum making the awful reports won't read it since it isn't exciting.

LOL the irony eh?

-RODION

Karolus10: Double posting, second post has been removed and merged bellow - please using "Edit Post option", thank You.

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I need a bigger bucket to make a sand castle out near the beach at the space center

Hehehe. And I guess some of you guys didn't see the sandcastle easter egg during one of the game's title sequences? :D I guess SQUAD put that there as a HINT and REMINDER of what we have at the moment...

-RODION

Edited by karolus10
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rodion_herrera

rodion_herrera

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All them bug reports are worrying me. Crossed fingers I get no probs when I download the update.

See? This is perhaps what we need to avoid--people who want to update but instead get worried that it will "ruin" whatever they currently have.

This could be a poor analogy but, it's just like getting a new something (i.e. new car, new phone, etc.)...you will perhaps lose a lot of functionalities and conveniencies you were accustomed to, but then once you start from scratch with your new item, you will eventually get to like it, especially if it's deemed an "upgrade" to whatever you currently had--and expect that some of the nuances you had to learn with the old device, are no longer applicable because the new device already has something equivalent (or better method) to it.

-RODINO

Karolus10: Double posting, second post has been removed and merged bellow - please using "Edit Post option", thank You.

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I don't understand. You're the guy that laid down the sarcasm on me in this thread for saying that I didn't have any issues with the new version. What changed?

LOL your post is also confusing me. Explain.

-RODION

Edited by karolus10
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Holo

Holo

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On the other hand, it's currently an incomplete ¬(sandbox) game, and therfore I treat it like that.

There's also been plenty of word of a career mode. They've made it clear on several occasions that they are going to start work next version.

And hey, it's an alpha. If you don't expect everything to break every update and are sad when your moon base goes, then you might have loaded up the wrong game. Anyway, there are at least 8 weeks between updates, which is plrenty of time to set up a super awesome mission to land on everything.

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Specialist290

Specialist290

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@rodion: While I get what you're saying, I also feel like playing devil's advocate a bit. I know who your posts are targeted towards -- and, in fact, in their case I happen to agree with you -- but I feel like speaking up on behalf of those who might have a legitimate concern with the game but don't say anything for fear of being dismissed as just another naysayer.

I won't deny that KSP is a sandbox game. I'm not one of those people who was completely put off his game when the update broke most of the mods I use. I had the foresight to keep my 0.19 install around, both in case I could salvage the saves eventually and simply to keep for the sake of comparison to the new update. I've been quite happy with the new features, and I still enjoy the game quite a bit.

But, as you yourself say, Kerbal Space Program is an incomplete game, and is therefore in a sense flawed by virtue of that very incompleteness.

As someone who enjoys the game immensely, I want the game to eventually reach a significantly less flawed state. I want to do whatever little tasks I can in order to make the game better than it is now, both for the sake of my own enjoyment and for the future enjoyment of other players. As I have little real background in programming myself, the best I can do when I encounter a genuine flaw in the program's operation is to see if I can consistently reproduce that flaw and discern any patterns, then report whatever I find to the development team. I don't do it as a passive-aggressive means of venting about some aspect of the game I don't like; I do it because I honestly care about the game's future.

I understand that, from your recent posts on the forums, you have not experienced any of the bugs you see others report. If so, I'm honestly glad you've had such fantastic experience with the game. However, not all computers interpret the same data in the same fashion. Just because you yourself are not experiencing any problems does not mean that someone else running a computer with significantly different specifications from your own will not have a legitimate issue that needs dealing with.

Again, I understand that a lot of the bug reports and support concerns here are ill-documented by many users, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

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rodion_herrera

rodion_herrera

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@rodion: While I get what you're saying, I also feel like playing devil's advocate a bit. I know who your posts are targeted towards -- and, in fact, in their case I happen to agree with you -- but I feel like speaking up on behalf of those who might have a legitimate concern with the game but don't say anything for fear of being dismissed as just another naysayer.

I won't deny that KSP is a sandbox game. I'm not one of those people who was completely put off his game when the update broke most of the mods I use. I had the foresight to keep my 0.19 install around, both in case I could salvage the saves eventually and simply to keep for the sake of comparison to the new update. I've been quite happy with the new features, and I still enjoy the game quite a bit.

But, as you yourself say, Kerbal Space Program is an incomplete game, and is therefore in a sense flawed by virtue of that very incompleteness.

As someone who enjoys the game immensely, I want the game to eventually reach a significantly less flawed state. I want to do whatever little tasks I can in order to make the game better than it is now, both for the sake of my own enjoyment and for the future enjoyment of other players. As I have little real background in programming myself, the best I can do when I encounter a genuine flaw in the program's operation is to see if I can consistently reproduce that flaw and discern any patterns, then report whatever I find to the development team. I don't do it as a passive-aggressive means of venting about some aspect of the game I don't like; I do it because I honestly care about the game's future.

I understand that, from your recent posts on the forums, you have not experienced any of the bugs you see others report. If so, I'm honestly glad you've had such fantastic experience with the game. However, not all computers interpret the same data in the same fashion. Just because you yourself are not experiencing any problems does not mean that someone else running a computer with significantly different specifications from your own will not have a legitimate issue that needs dealing with.

Again, I understand that a lot of the bug reports and support concerns here are ill-documented by many users, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

Thanks for the insightful rebuttal. My other thread entitled "Am I the only one experiencing..." is meant as an informal count/tally of those not experiencing any issues, and perhaps (and that was my error, I should have emphasized it) list down their machine's specs, so that perhaps, it can help other see that a certain "profile" of machine setup (in terms of hardware/software) can perhaps be a good guide as to what sort of setup can be built in order to run KSP (esp. the latest version) well. Let that attempt at "gathering data" make it clear that I am indeed aware that the program will work differently on different setups--my post was focused on those who are really "using a pocket knife to cut down a tree" sort of thing, and not those who are working/playing within the known limitations of the game. I don't think that those who have legitimate concerns should be worried, because, so far as in what I've read in the forum, we can tell from the first few lines of their post about the "legitimate" nature of their concern, and how it can potentially affect their gameplay.

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Specialist290

Specialist290

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Thanks for the insightful rebuttal. My other thread entitled "Am I the only one experiencing..." is meant as an informal count/tally of those not experiencing any issues, and perhaps (and that was my error, I should have emphasized it) list down their machine's specs, so that perhaps, it can help other see that a certain "profile" of machine setup (in terms of hardware/software) can perhaps be a good guide as to what sort of setup can be built in order to run KSP (esp. the latest version) well. Let that attempt at "gathering data" make it clear that I am indeed aware that the program will work differently on different setups--my post was focused on those who are really "using a pocket knife to cut down a tree" sort of thing, and not those who are working/playing within the known limitations of the game. I don't think that those who have legitimate concerns should be worried, because, so far as in what I've read in the forum, we can tell from the first few lines of their post about the "legitimate" nature of their concern, and how it can potentially affect their gameplay.

Fair enough, and I agree with your assessment.

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Rareden

Rareden

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Yes the game is incredibly fun when you start out, but as you progress and getting into orbit/ another planet become easy. you run out of things to do and lose enjoyment slightly, it needs some purpose to having the skill and knowledge from playing for some time.

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rodion_herrera

rodion_herrera

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So if we have issues with the game we should just keep them to ourselfs?

How on earth will the devs know that there is something wrong with the game then?

Did I ever say that? I think I need to RESTRESS that I'm talking about issues with mods (because there is NO MOD SUPPORT...let the mods concentrate on the internals of the game, before dealing with stuff that are external to their development). Other issues that don't relate to the mods are always welcome, because those indeed address issues that will be potentially a showstopper, and it's the devs' responsibility as well. Please don't paint my plea/request as illogical/unreasonable--it makes sense. I'm all for bug-hunting and bug/error reporting, but I hope we're not swamping devs with "I wish they would make it so my old mods would work" kind of tone.

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erkha343

erkha343

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Did I ever say that? I think I need to RESTRESS that I'm talking about issues with mods (because there is NO MOD SUPPORT...let the mods concentrate on the internals of the game, before dealing with stuff that are external to their development). Other issues that don't relate to the mods are always welcome, because those indeed address issues that will be potentially a showstopper, and it's the devs' responsibility as well. Please don't paint my plea/request as illogical/unreasonable--it makes sense. I'm all for bug-hunting and bug/error reporting, but I hope we're not swamping devs with "I wish they would make it so my old mods would work" kind of tone.

Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. I agree, mods have almost always been broken with releases.

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