Do you Cheat?

[sal_vager]

It's pretty hard to define "cheating" in a game like KSP to be honest, you could cheat on a challenge by breaking the rules to win, or you could use a modded part with silly thrust or fuel levels (conf edits basically)

Things like part clipping aren't cheating, nor is infinite fuel really cheating if you can fly without it, as sometimes you just want to get something big in space to play with it there, not in an atmosphere.

I think the only real cheat, apart from with challenges, would be you cheating yourself out of the satisfaction of accomplishing something in the game, this would happen if you used infinite fuel everywhere for instance.

The whole point of KSP is to have fun flying spacecraft, how you do it doesn't really matter

[entaran]

Who said anything about devaluing real astronauts?

Usually it's Mechplebs saying "B-but real rockets use computers!"

Nobody's being righteous either, I simply don't see how taking out the part of the game that actually requires some effort and skill isn't cheating. Just because it's singleplayer doesn't mean you can't cheat.

Example -

User one - Hey look guys, I manually piloted this ship all the way to Eeloo, it was really hard but the challenge is what makes the game worth playing!

Audience - Well done!

User 2 - Hey look guys, Mechjeb flew this ship all the way to Eeloo and all I had to do was click a button!

Audience - Well done!

It kinda devalues User 1's achievement, when another person gets the same reward and praise as them simply for letting a program fly the mission.

Read the qualified blathering from whatisthisidonteven above. you might get an idea of what i was talking about.

[GJames]

I do occasionally "cheat" but only if I forgot to do something important while already in orbit, or if my Mun rover is loaded 30m under the surface... I do use Kerbal Engineer and Kerbal Alarm Clock as well.

My first Duna rover ended up facing away from Kerbol as I was about to capture myself into orbit. I ran out of power, and my rover was doomed to fly back out into interplanetary space for another half-orbit until the solar panels faced Kerbol once again. A quick edit of the persistence file later and I came back to the rover. Amazingly, some clever Kerbal at KSC had got the RCS stabilizers to fire for a few seconds and Kerbol came back into view, recharging the batteries!

So, yeah, I do occassionally cheat when I have put a lot of effort into something which has gone wrong out of a tiny mistake, but not if everything explodes because I don't have enough fuel to land. Those Kerbals are doomed, I just try not to look as they plummet into the ground...

[Jokurr]

I once cheated when I landed a rover on Duna. I quicksaved right after I touched down on the ground, thinking everything was dandy, only to realize a few seconds later I had blown two of my tires out on landing. I edited the save to put me back into orbit with the parachutes repacked, wheels undamaged, and a fuel level similar to what I had before descending from orbit.

I also edited a save once when a different lander on Duna somehow got stuck underneath the surface to get it back up to surface level, though I don't think that really counts as cheating.

[CozmikR5]

Cheating in a single-player game. Hilarious concept.

[PDCWolf]

Cheating in a single-player game. Hilarious concept.

Like, seriously, I mean, CHEATING XDXD? ON MY SINGLE PLAYER? XD like, when the game gives me the mission to place a satellite on eeloo but I just hyperedit/"execute" it there, I MEAN, LIKE I'M NOT CHEATING BECAUSE IT'S SINGLE PLAYER XDXD

That's how you and anyone who uses that argument look.

Anyways, for now, the game has no objectives, so yeah, it's not "cheating", it's just playing the dumb way/nulling the gameplay/making it easier/avoid learning curve but, as soon as there is a career mode with set objectives, your argument is going to be invalid as -snip-

[Qumefox]

I use hack-gravity etc when testing builds for things like thrust and RCS balance without having to actually put stuff in orbit first as i'm building vehicles/ships. For actual real launches. No debug menu is used, and the only two mods I use are KER and protractor.

[giltirn]

I use Hack Gravity to test the RCS distribution of my landers, sometimes enable part clipping to mount a part that refuses to attach even though it really should (I'm talking to you, stacked radial-mounted fuel tanks!) and I have hacked the craft file to remove an annoying struct connector stub that was impossible to click on in the VAB. I wouldn't consider those 'cheating' as such.

[DarthJazno]

With the exception of mods like Mechjeb, (which i dont really consider cheating and I'm not here for a debate) I don't cheat. I never resort to alt F12 to give myself a little more fuel. However, I did design a lander once specifically for cheating just because I could. The "Tricky Dick" had infinite fuel during its run (Nixon would have worked too but his name is already on the moon) I rocketed around the system, landing and taking off from Eve, explored a couple moons of Jool, and headed out for a landing on Eeloo. Then I decided to see what a flight to Moho from Eeloo would be. Even with infinite fuel and an "normally" overpowered craft that was a long burn. After landing on Moho I decided to do some low orbit testing. It wasn't long before I crashed. I ended the mission there. I haven't flown it since. No doubt about it, that flight was cheating but fun once.

Edited June 12, 2013 by DarthJazno

[Spaceisbeautifulul]

Well sometimes I cheat, but only when I've spent days trying to perfect a design and I mess up one little thing.

Or when I get nommed on by the space kraken, and it is not my fault.

Or when I don't feel like designing a launcher for a little thing I'll never use again in my life.

[rodion_herrera]

I hate to reiterate this, but anyone who presses ">" and "<" constantly, based on most the of "definitions" of "cheating" that I've gleaned via your posts, is in fact, cheating, because you cannot do "warps" in reality.

Ok, then someone actually probably does that here...hardcore...and for over a year now, in the real world, he STILL hasn't reached Jool yet *snicker*

[Eric S]

The Moon landing was done manually, for one.

I have the utmost respect for astronauts, but that's really an overly romanticized interpretation of what actually happened. In reality, the autopilot was never turned off. They pitched the lander a bit and then told the autopilot to slow its rate of descent towards the surface of the moon so it wouldn't land in the middle of a boulder field. Once they made it to a clear landing area, they told the autopilot to resume it's normal descent rate. Manual intervention? Yes. Manual landing? Not really. The pitching was the only part done manually, the rest was changing the autopilot's parameters.

[whatisthisidonteven]

Cheating in a single-player game. Hilarious concept.

Am I not cheating if I open up GTA and turn on infinite health/ammo/etc? I mean, it's not like I'm playing any missions or anything, it's just a sandbox game.

Cheating is not a concept that solely exists in multiplayer games, you know.

[rodion_herrera]

I have the utmost respect for astronauts, but that's really an overly romanticized interpretation of what actually happened. In reality, the autopilot was never turned off. They pitched the lander a bit and then told the autopilot to slow its rate of descent towards the surface of the moon so it wouldn't land in the middle of a boulder field. Once they made it to a clear landing area, they told the autopilot to resume it's normal descent rate. Manual intervention? Yes. Manual landing? Not really. The pitching was the only part done manually, the rest was changing the autopilot's parameters.

That's basically saying that all modern airliners aren't landed manually, because, in the case of an A320 say, the autothrottle isn't turned off. While not going overtechnical over the word "manual", most of the AP landings were actually manually done, and the only 'automatic' part was the AGC's control of the throttle (to prevent the LM from making sudden descents or ascents). Case in point, AP12. Pete Conrad had to manually maneuver the LM because the were landing on a crater rim. You can only "trace" the rim of the crater manually--the PGNS/AGS wasn't sophisticated enough yet to do that automatically. So yes, in the case of Pete's landing, he "flew" that LM along the Surveyor crater's rim and set it down (though still short of the intended landing spot).

[SpaceshipFood]

I cheat all the time.

[cesarcurado]

No, not even mechjeb.

[Zapmunk]

I use mechjeb for things I already know how to do. Getting into orbit was fun the first 10 or so times, but when I want to just get some stuff up, I'll just hit the button to do it for me.

I wouldn't call that cheating, since I've already "proven" myself able to do these things, and all I'm doing is skipping ahead to the interesting parts.

It's only cheating if you're cheating yourself. If someone wants to use hyperedit and genuinely enjoys it, they're not cheating unless they've deprived themselves of their own entertainment.

[Mokmo]

I do use the infinite fuel for repairing what some mods updates do. Lately it's mostly been moving my kethane mining rigs to new spots as the 0.20 fix reset the map, then Kethane 0.4 did again and once i install 0.5 it will again (hopefully for the last time according to its maker).

[Eric S]

That's basically saying that all modern airliners aren't landed manually, because, in the case of an A320 say, the autothrottle isn't turned off.

If the throttle were the only control, you might have a point (and even that would depend on just what the autothrottle does), but the astronauts weren't maintaining the craft's heading, they returned control of that to the autopilot after they pitched. If modern airliners are landed by pilots lining up with the runway then letting the autopilot keep the heading and then just adjusting their rate of descent, then you'd have a reasonable comparison, but that really wouldn't sound like a manual landing to me.

As for AP12, it sounds like something that could be handled the same way as adjusting AP11's landing location, but since I've never seen a writeup on the AP12 landing, I can't really say either way.

[rodion_herrera]

If modern airliners are landed by pilots lining up with the runway then letting the autopilot keep the heading and then just adjusting their rate of descent, then you'd have a reasonable comparison, but that really wouldn't sound like a manual landing to me.

Actually, around 80% of commercial airliner landings are done that way (the only limitation for some countries is that their CT's/runways don't have the hardware for it), it's called SID/STARS approach--the FMC will basically "pass on" the STARS info to the a/c's FD and then perform the necessary maneuvers, even without pilot input--the actual approach prior to landing is mostly handled manually though, esp. in bad weather. Then landing is usually assisted by ILS/glidescope. So again, based on how you described it earlier, modern airliners are not landed manually. But my pilot friends who work for commercial airlines would argue with you on that So in the case of airliners, it's mostly the other way around--the 'autopilot' (a very generic term) assists the pilots manual flying, and not that the pilot assists the autopilot while landing.

I have one particular pilot friend who tells a story about a passenger saying, "So you don't really do much of the flying nowadys, right? You guys got autopilot--it's the one flying the plane-" My pilot friend interrupted and said, "Actually, I FLY the aircraft USING the autopilot."

Edited June 12, 2013 by rodion_herrera

[firerider521]

I cheat in my "insanity" save file.

That's the save file where I blow up gigantic super heavy lifters by hacking gravity and using Whack-A-Kerbal on all maxed out stats.

It's fun all right.

[Ganymede]

I did a couple of times, though I try not to

I was building a station and was attaching the third piece. The docking ports would line up and attract each other but the two ships would never actually "join". I tried quicksaving, quickloading, and restarting KSP but they still wouldn't join up. I had to end the flight and send up a new one, and since I was already frustrated at my last rendezvous so I used infinite fuel (lacking Hyperedit, which it sounds like I should get for things like this.)

On the topic of "cheating", it's just about what you want to do in the game and what you set your goals to. If you want to make a really cool station but can't get it into orbit, that shouldn't stop you. If you want to challenge yourself and make a hyper-realistic space mission, go for it. It's just personal preference of how and what you do to enjoy the game.

[Djhcc26]

Umm I don't work for NASA, nor do I have friends that fly airplanes. I don't cheat in the game but I do use mechjeb because manually tapping WASDQE on the keyboard is no where near as realistic as typing in the pitch, yaw and roll angles in a computer and allowing the computer to "attempt" to keep that heading. And for your information on most of my builds( which include 2 different Isp engines on the same stage to balance D/V and fuel usage) mechjeb fails horribly at adjusting the nodes correctly. The autopilot just doesnt work half the time, so I just don't use that part of the program. I watched the ATV-5 launch the other day and unless I'm mistaken I didn't see the guy in the mission control hit spacebar to stage the rockets. I do think I saw him double tap "t" to cycle the ASAS though, I could be wrong. Your an idiot for condemning ppl that cant do the math on their own and therefore allow a computer program to do it for them. Honestly, I could use your same reasoning to say that if you don't use a joystick to control your rockets than your cheating because its not realistic. What part of "little green men" makes you think this is a realistic game? Using WASDQE to control your craft is incredibly clunky and imprecise. I have landed on kerbin's moons countless times without mechjeb autopilot, but I've also done it about the same amount with mechjeb. No one is dimminishing your achievements by doing the same thing with mechjeb as you did without it. I personally have never used hyperedit and don't plan on it, and I have used the debug menu to test craft and new engines. I don't build without clipping on because the parts don't fit together as they are supposed too and trying to put a ship together when parts don't behave properly is frustrating. But, I've never cheated once in this game.

I have cheated on this game before(I thought the other game was sexy) I feel horrible about it now, and I don't know how I'm gonna tell KSP about it. Maybe one of you awesome KSP puritsts can help me with my little problem.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Djhcc26

[The Jedi Master]

Not on m main save. I have used the debug menu in my "silly" save.

[Pachi3080]

i cheated only twice... For G force experiments, and for sending a probe far away of the sun's SoI...