Career Mode and Mods

[SleepyWacKo]

This will not happen with the current mind set of Squad. They are even having a debate whether or not your crew should be able to control the ship.

not sure where you get that but straight from the planned features "Crew tasks: Have the crew take charge of controlling the craft (provided they can handle it". This pretty much means that squads mindset intends to add some sort of autpilot involving crew task) until this is no longer listed as a planned feature than you statement above is completely false!

[SleepyWacKo]

I am fine with mods in Sandbox, just not career mode. Alright, all done here.

[sarcasm] i'm fine with KSP only having a sandbox, there should not be a career mode. Alright, all done here! [/sarcasm]

[OtherDalfite]

[sarcasm] i'm fine with KSP only having a sandbox, there should not be a career mode. Alright, all done here! [/sarcasm]

Uhh, not quite sure what you mean there. I do want a career mode, I just wish for it to be stock only.

[fatfluffycat]

Uhh, not quite sure what you mean there. I do want a career mode, I just wish for it to be stock only.

But why stock only?

[regex]

Uhh, not quite sure what you mean there. I do want a career mode, I just wish for it to be stock only.

I don't want career mode, artificial goals imposed by some distant developer just don't fit into the personal experience we have right now.

[OtherDalfite]

But why stock only?

I've stated that before. I believe it levels it out and forces people to think about their design decisions. That, and I think stock is right around the perfect level of difficulty. But again, that's my opinion.

[SleepyWacKo]

Uhh, not quite sure what you mean there. I do want a career mode, I just wish for it to be stock only.

i'm just doing what you are doing, trying to decide for you how i would like you to play your single player game! i don't feel you should have a career mode.

Of course i'm being sarcastic saying that but that is the vibe some of the comments that you and others state. KSP is a single player game, it does not matter whether one uses mods in career mode or not it does not affect you yourself in any way shape or form. The only reason i see for those arguing against it is simply due to ego. there is no competition in KSP, it isn't multiplayer so the only reason to limit mods is simply so some elite kerbal maybe jebadiah can gloat over his accomplishment, stroking ones ego while demeaning someone elses.

I also read one of your post where you state career mode should be KSP hard mode for a reason as to not use mods. 1) who is to say that the devs vision of career mode is to be hard? what if they decided to go the arcade route with it? you would probably look to the modding community to solve that. 2) what about mods that add difficulty such as Deadly Re Entry, FAR, Remote Tech etc? Maybe someone like me would like to make his career mode even harder? 3) right now mods are centered around sandbox, but career mode would open another door for modding such as making it harder, more realistic etc. All i really see from the ones that are against mods in career mode simply have a very close mind to the possibilities it will allow. The advantages will far out weigh the negatives. In the end though we have no idea how career mode will turn out or the features that the devs will have in game by then. until that point we should all keep an open mind

Edited July 12, 2013 by SleepyWacKo

[OtherDalfite]

i'm just doing what you are doing, trying to decide for you how i would like you to play your single player game! i don't feel you should have a career mode.

Of course i'm being sarcastic saying that but that is the vibe some of the comments that you and others state. KSP is a single player game, it does not matter whether one uses mods in career mode or not it does not affect you yourself in any way shape or form. The only reason i see for those arguing against it is simply due to ego. there is no competition in KSP, it isn't multiplayer so the only reason to limit mods is simply so some elite kerbal maybe jebadiah can gloat over his accomplishment, stroking ones ego while demeaning someone elses.

I also read one of your post where you state career mode should be KSP hard mode for a reason as to not use mods. 1) who is to say that the devs vision of career mode is to be hard? what if they decided to go the arcade route with it? you would probably look to the modding community to solve that. 2) what about mods that add difficulty such as Deadly Re Entry, FAR, Remote Tech etc? Maybe someone like me would like to make his career mode even harder? 3) right now mods are centered around sandbox, but career mode would open another door for modding such as making it harder, more realistic etc. All i really see from the ones that are against mods in career mode simply have a very close mind to the possibilities it will allow. The advantages will far out weigh the negatives. In the end though we have no idea how career mode will turn out or the features that the devs will have in game by then. until that point we should all keep an open mind

I know it's a single player game, and I've been over the fact that some mods make the game harder multiple times. Read my previous post to the answers to your questions. Also, while you may think I don't want mods purely for my ego, you are wrong. Many people who use mechjeb/mods that make the game very very easy tend to ruin the learning experience that KSP is. Sure, you may learn a bit, but you get a lot more out of it if you learn it yourself. Also, please just be frank with your posts, as sarcasm is tough to decipher on the internet.

[bbwonder]

I'm really hoping career mode is stock only. This would be good for new players to learn rather than just use mechjeb. It would build some skill level on them and allow them to more deeply understand what it takes to get into orbit and why.

Agreed.

It only makes sense to have mods in the sandbox IMO..

It wouldnt be Squad's game if people had the choice to just 'mod' their way past problems or achievements, Squad have the right, and it's in their interest to restrict their audience into 'their design' or stock parts. Otherwise they would have no identity other than it being a platform to abuse.

I'm a Kerbal purist.. it's meant to be difficult, and thats what pulled so many people in.

Casual Gamers followed because of the stir it made by word of mouth and through great reviews, and mods made it accessible to do fun things easily.

But that doesnt have lasting appeal. There's no satisfaction in getting to space easily.

[OtherDalfite]

Agreed.

It only makes sense to have mods in the sandbox IMO..

It wouldnt be Squad's game if people had the choice to just 'mod' their way past problems or achievements, Squad have the right, and it's in their interest to restrict their audience into 'their design' or stock parts. Otherwise they would have no identity other than it being a platform to abuse.

I'm a Kerbal purist.. it's meant to be difficult, and thats what pulled so many people in.

Casual Gamers followed because of the stir it made by word of mouth and through great reviews, and mods made it accessible to do fun things easily.

But that doesnt have lasting appeal. There's no satisfaction in getting to space easily.

This is what I've been trying to get across. But then again, I guess everyone has their own definition of fun. Hence what I've been trying to say as to Career Mode being the "hardmode" of KSP. Sure, you can stick a brick of 6 mainsails under that rover you want to send to the Mun and have tons of extra fuel you simply drop off to smash into the surface, but with career mode you would have to be as efficient and clever as possible in your Maneuvers.

[AmpsterMan]

I thought Mods in Career mode would be okay just like mods in survival mode in Minecraft is okay. Just disable achievements (if any) and go at it

I'm a Kerbal purist.. it's meant to be difficult, and thats what pulled so many people in.

I agree with this sentiment however. Which is why I am all for SQUAD not making the game any easier than they want it to be, but wouldn't want to penalise people who want an easier time at it either.

Edited July 12, 2013 by AmpsterMan

[fatfluffycat]

Agreed.

It only makes sense to have mods in the sandbox IMO..

It wouldnt be Squad's game if people had the choice to just 'mod' their way past problems or achievements, Squad have the right, and it's in their interest to restrict their audience into 'their design' or stock parts. Otherwise they would have no identity other than it being a platform to abuse.

I'm a Kerbal purist.. it's meant to be difficult, and thats what pulled so many people in.

Casual Gamers followed because of the stir it made by word of mouth and through great reviews, and mods made it accessible to do fun things easily.

But that doesnt have lasting appeal. There's no satisfaction in getting to space easily.

That's how you like to play the game. Does it really matters if someone else "cheats" (Who are you cheating?). The way I play the game doesn't effect your game, does it?

[SleepyWacKo]

. Many people who use mechjeb/mods that make the game very very easy tend to ruin the learning experience that KSP is. Sure, you may learn a bit, but you get a lot more out of it if you learn it yourself.

i get exactly what you are saying, but riddle me this why should i care if someone else decides to ruin their own learning experience as you put it buy using mods to make their time in game easier? why would this affect me or in this case you in any way shape or form? is the point of playing a game to have fun? why do you want to decide what type of fun they can have? or why force them to play sandbox just to use mods if they still want to have the structure set of possible goals a career mode provides?

I have no seen any of those questions answered at all that passes the poop test. In reality those for limiting mods in career mode is like a dictator ship, taking away a choice. allowing mods provides choice for both sides of the debate. the only question after that is do you have the willpower to not use mods if it is allowed? maybe that answer is no so you want it to be forced so you would have no choice, but that is the wrong way of doing it and is very close minded to what others may find enjoyable.

Edited July 12, 2013 by SleepyWacKo

[SleepyWacKo]

Agreed.

It only makes sense to have mods in the sandbox IMO..

It wouldnt be Squad's game if people had the choice to just 'mod' their way past problems or achievements, Squad have the right, and it's in their interest to restrict their audience into 'their design' or stock parts. Otherwise they would have no identity other than it being a platform to abuse.

I'm a Kerbal purist.. it's meant to be difficult, and thats what pulled so many people in.

Casual Gamers followed because of the stir it made by word of mouth and through great reviews, and mods made it accessible to do fun things easily.

But that doesnt have lasting appeal. There's no satisfaction in getting to space easily.

who said it's meant to be difficult? if it was meant so than mods would have never been allowed period. IMO KSP was meant to provide a choice for everyone not those with just your mind set!

[OtherDalfite]

who said it's meant to be difficult? if it was meant so than mods would have never been allowed period. IMO KSP was meant to provide a choice for everyone not those with just your mind set!

Sandbox isn't designed to be difficult. I feel that career mode should be, seeing as how it is sort of the "storyline" for KSP. You don't go through a game without having to fight a few tough enemies, or have to figure out a complex puzzle.

[SleepyWacKo]

But then again, I guess everyone has their own definition of fun.

now you are starting to open your mind, now if i was serious about sarcasm remarks earlier where i said KSP should be sandbox only with no career mode at all, wouldn't this be me trying to limit your fun? wouldn't be right would it? so why do it upon those who disagree with you?

[SleepyWacKo]

I feel that career mode should be, seeing as how it is sort of the "storyline" for KSP.

the key words in this statement is "I FEEL" well others "FEEL" differently, why limit them when it serves no actual purpose other than limiting the way someone "FEELS" they would like to play.

[fatfluffycat]

I'm not. I'm simply stating my opinion on something. Also, please stop trying to turn this into an argument-oriented thread, as it will get locked fairly fast. So far it's been kept pretty civil and the mods have allowed it to stay open.

Anyways, do you have anything to add as to why mods should be allowed in career mode? Career mode is designed to be a competitive/difficult mode of the game. Why allow something that makes the game ridiculously simple? It's easy enough as it is with maneuver nodes and the orbital map display.

Career mode is designed to simulate running a space program, you have to manage money, and have to complete tasks to keep your space program running.

[OtherDalfite]

now you are starting to open your mind, now if i was serious about sarcasm remarks earlier where i said KSP should be sandbox only with no career mode at all, wouldn't this be me trying to limit your fun? wouldn't be right would it? so why do it upon those who disagree with you?

I'm not trying to limit fun at all. I'm just trying to keep a level of difficulty in the game so that way Career mode isn't basically sandbox with a few missions. I just want it to be as good as can be, and that is my idea on how to make it so.

[fatfluffycat]

I'm not trying to limit fun at all. I'm just trying to keep a level of difficulty in the game so that way Career mode isn't basically sandbox with a few missions. I just want it to be as good as can be, and that is my idea on how to make it so.

But you don't have to use mods, you can play it how YOU want...

[AmpsterMan]

One reason I think Mods in career mode should be allowed is because at some point, no matter what, no matter how much we don't want it to be so, KSP missions will become stale and we will run out of missions and parts to do them with. Now if mods were allowed in Career mode then we would be able to download mod missions, parts, etc. that will help liven up the experience. So what if someone wants to download OP parts and have them from the start, that is the Modmaker and mod user's decision.

What I think would be much more likely is that there will come out a few modpacks that have high quality parts that will be balanced against the parts in game. Will they be better? Probably. But I also understand that the Modmakers would be smart enough to make them cost more tech points, materials, etc.

[Akinesis]

I think I have something that we can all agree on: We all can't agree on some things.

One of life's lessons is that you can't please everybody. Whatever Squad decides on, it'll upset a percentage of the players.

Now lets all hug. I'm tired and drained from the kids and ended the night with a couple if whiskeys. Now I'm in one of those

'Lets all just hug, man' chilled-out moods...

[Rockhem]

Why do people care how I play my game?

Seriously why?

If i want to use infinite fuel and prebuilt rockets, and I have fun why is it bad, do i have to have fun in a certain way?

Personally, i don't like hyperedit and stuff, but i am totally fine if someone wants to post a achievement even if they used hyper edit or infinite fuel

If it feels like a achievement to them, then it is a achievement.

The egos from the opposing side a so big i need to step back a bit. lol

[Lanfranc]

This is what I've been trying to get across. But then again, I guess everyone has their own definition of fun. Hence what I've been trying to say as to Career Mode being the "hardmode" of KSP. Sure, you can stick a brick of 6 mainsails under that rover you want to send to the Mun and have tons of extra fuel you simply drop off to smash into the surface, but with career mode you would have to be as efficient and clever as possible in your Maneuvers.

I don't know where you people get the idea that mods just make the game easier. What good mods do is making it more interesting by adding new capabilities and dimensions beyond what the stock parts can deliver – mods like Kerbal Attachement System, MapSat, Damned Robotics, B9, Ferram Aerospace, Chatterer, etc., etc. Restricting to stock doesn't make the game harder, it just makes it less interesting. It baffles me that there are people who actually want this.

[OtherDalfite]

The egos from the opposing side a so big i need to step back a bit. lol

If you think the only reason I don't want mods in career mode is because of my ego, maybe you do need to step back.