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[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

TaranisElsu

By TaranisElsu
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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NoMrBond

NoMrBond

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Some of those mods look out of date, i.e smokescreen is up to 2.4.3 but yours is 0.9, RPM is up to 0.18.2 but yours is 0.17, not sure if those are accurate and could just be wrong flags in their respective .dll's

I had to completely delete my GameData directory after 0.24 came out and start clean, reaquiring the GameData/Squad/NASA directories and re-downloading and re-installing all mods as they became 0.24 compliant to stop the crashes due to all the leftover breadcrumbs

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Nori

Nori

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Just been looking over the changes for the latest version and wanted to write a quickish summary (correct me if I'm wrong on anything).

  • Food consumption is up about 60%, density 75% less, costs 10x more.
  • Water consumption is down 40%, costs 8x more, Wastewater down about 35%.
  • Oxygen consumption is halved, CO2 production halved as well.

Electricity changes are pretty minor. 20% decrease in base usage amount. EVA usage is doubled though, but it doesn't seem to affect anything as they still have 6 hours (well I guess they take it from the ship when they leave, I think).

Now on to the big changes.. Parts. Lets start with converters.

Carbon Extractor:

  • Cost goes from 1000 to 6800
  • Mass 0.1 to 5.0
  • Efficiency reduced by half. Probably to scale with the reduced oxygen consumption.
  • Max CO2 divided by 11

Sabatier

  • Costs goes from 1000 to 7200
  • Mass 0.1 to 5.3
  • Half the water, a fifth of the CO2, half the electricity
  • Output halved
  • Max CO2 divided by 11

Water Purifier

  • Cost 2000 to 5000
  • Mass .45 to 3.0
  • 40% less WasteWater input and Water output. 13x less electricity
  • Max WasteWater divided by 10

And that is all I have time for right now. Hopefully this gives a idea of the general changes (unless of course I'm completely stupid and misreading the files).

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Taki117

Taki117

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I'm sorry if this has been asked before but looking through 200 pages of posts would take way to long.

What lines would I enter into a command pods config to add the on board life-support?

You don't. It's done via MM.

If you have a Pre .9 craft that has it integrated, simple delete the RESOURCE node that has the life support things in it.

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munseeker

munseeker

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Just been looking over the changes for the latest version and wanted to write a quickish summary

Yep. This looks right. I switched to the new version with an existing Mun base and an expedition to Duna on the way and it went all well...

The much heavier recyclers will need consideration for future flights. I'm probably also going to make some adjustments to my greenhouses in the next couple of days.

Thanks for the great summary!

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Arran

Arran

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Some of those mods look out of date, i.e smokescreen is up to 2.4.3 but yours is 0.9, RPM is up to 0.18.2 but yours is 0.17, not sure if those are accurate and could just be wrong flags in their respective .dll's

I had to completely delete my GameData directory after 0.24 came out and start clean, reaquiring the GameData/Squad/NASA directories and re-downloading and re-installing all mods as they became 0.24 compliant to stop the crashes due to all the leftover breadcrumbs

Smokescreen and RPM comes with KSO, and i have the latest KSO installed, but it is entirely possible that a modder of a bigger mod that makes use of other mods to function are packaged not with the most resent updates of that other mod.

Same counts for Firesplitter and such, some mods listed are installed partionally as part of a other mod.

Allready updated some of those that allready had a warning that they where outdated, but not those that seemingly worked fine.

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Liowen

Liowen

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I know the consumption rates can be adjusted by the player to suit their needs, but is it possible for a player to adjust the amount of resources in a vessel (I am guessing this is the items in the pods) back to the older values without having the version checker getting mad? It is kind of odd before my space station had 78 days of everything, except electric charge, but now it has 49 days of food, 145 days of water, and 158 days of oxygen. If I cannot change them back it is not that big of a deal, it just means more micro managing than I had originally planned on doing.

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Nori

Nori

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I know the consumption rates can be adjusted by the player to suit their needs, but is it possible for a player to adjust the amount of resources in a vessel (I am guessing this is the items in the pods) back to the older values without having the version checker getting mad? It is kind of odd before my space station had 78 days of everything, except electric charge, but now it has 49 days of food, 145 days of water, and 158 days of oxygen. If I cannot change them back it is not that big of a deal, it just means more micro managing than I had originally planned on doing.

You can change it with Module Manager configs... Though it might be "funner" to treat this like a problem in need of a solution. Try launching a small ship with just a food bin to dock and even it out. Or if you have KAS make the hex food containers able to be grabbed by KAS and do a EVA and attach one. That would be pretty interesting.

The following MM config would change the basic Life Support Container to about 2.5x the food.


@PART[TacLifeSupportContainer] {
  @RESOURCE
  {
   @name = Food
   @amount = 300
   @maxAmount = 300
  }
}

Edited by Nori
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TaranisElsu

TaranisElsu

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Is there a reason why the Hitchhiker pod has no storage capacity for Lifesupport resources like the command modules?

I think especially that part should be able to hold some resources like the command pods.

That was a design choice. All command pods have resources built in because it allows short missions without needing extra parts. If you are adding a Hitchhiker Pod, then you are making a bigger and/or longer mission and you can add some supply containers depending on the total number of Kerbals and your mission length.

Sorry if this has been asked before (I only had time to peruse the posts). When I EVA a Kerbal right now, it sends him out with zero resources. I immediately get the "...has run out of..." messages for all resources and get the red negative numbers. I have left the configuration setup as default, except for disabling respawn.

Is there a config file that I can edit to get around this, or is there a known cause.

Note - this is for the 0.24.2 and the latest version of TAC.

Thanks!

I need a log file before I can do much to help: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Help

ok soooo now when TAC 9.1.11 is installed, game hangs on startup when going to the first in game station view, right after you resume your game. once again.. 64 bit version

The 64-bit Windows version has so many problems. Try the 32-bit unless you really really need 64-bits and can tollerate the crashes, errors, and bugs.

And I need a log file before I can do much to help: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Help

Perhaps the message should be modified to point users in the right direction? ("Died of air toxicity, due to lack of electricity")

You should have received a warning that the vessel was running out of or is out of Electric Charge before that happened. I will try to make that clearer though.

Are there any big tanks that support TAC life support? I used to use Tal's spherical and torrodial tanks, but it doesn't seem to be updated for .24. That seems to be true for all the other mods out there that have a similar function that I know of.

Have you tried Tal's tanks? It seems to work for me in 0.24.2. I have not really tested it though because I have not had much time to play. I second the recommendations to look at MKS/OKS or Procedural Parts. Procedural Parts even allows you to make spherical tanks like in Tal's set. Sadly, no torrodial though.

Hi guys!

I'm in a little confusion here.

I've installed 0.9 version (have a buch of other mods like mks and some 0.24 saves). There is a large storage part for Food, Water and Oxygen and it show me that it contains resources for 2000+ days kerbin days (or 500+ earth days) for 1 kerman. That's a... huge amount for me.

Is it a correct amount or something gone wrong with my installation? Cause i can stack up like a dozen of thoose containers and get an amount of supplies that overcome any possible needs. It's not fun =\

The large containers aren't meant to be used by a single kerbal, really. Those are intended for seriously long, multi-kerbal missions and/or colonies. Also, in just stacking supplies like that, you're consciously choosing to bypass the mechanics entirely, so that's on you.

That being said, I still kind of agree with your point; has anyone suggested maybe adding a spoil rate for food, so if you pack a ton onto a vessel with a single kerbal, much of it will go bad? Just an idea. Then you could add more balance for long missions by adding cryo-storage containers of food that are heavier (on account of refrigeration).

After the last rebalance, I calculated that you would need 2.4 large containers to send a 6 Kerbal crew to Duna and back, and 6.4 for a trip to Jool and back. Establishing a (semi-) permanent station or base would need a whole lot more. And really, you should not be sending a single Kerbal that far. Poor guy, he would get quite lonely :(. The ISS currently has 6 people on it, and it is just in LEO.

Hurrah2!

Just need to update the info in Curse page, but the download is right!

Thank you TaranisElsu

:D

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5572/14888816000_5924b1dd06_o.pngScreen Shot 2014-08-29 at 15.57.34 by Climberfx, on Flickr

Thanks for pointing that out! Fixed :cool:!

0.8, 0.9 and 0.10 all have the same issue for me, KSP crashes as soon i enter the VAB when TAC Lifesupport is installed.

Removing the mod, and KSP runs just fine here.

I've examined the output_log.txt thats created on crashing, but it hardly reveals any relevant information, only line that vaguely shows an issue is the last 2 lines in the log

I cant find any further info in any log file that could show what issue might be causing this.

Now i do run a number of mods :

at might be an conflict, not certain, havent done yet a one by one mod test to see with what mod the issue starts

For now i just leave TAC for what it is, pity though..

I need a log file before I can do much to help you: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Help

Are you running the 64-bit Windows version? It has so many problems that I would recommend staying away from it for now. How much memory is KSP using? Have you tried making a separate install with only my mod and ModuleManager, and see if it works then?

There is no reason that TACLS would cause a crash on entering the VAB. It is most likely caused by something else.

Just been looking over the changes for the latest version and wanted to write a quickish summary (correct me if I'm wrong on anything).

  • Food consumption is up about 60%, density 75% less, costs 10x more.
  • Water consumption is down 40%, costs 8x more, Wastewater down about 35%.
  • Oxygen consumption is halved, CO2 production halved as well.

Electricity changes are pretty minor. 20% decrease in base usage amount. EVA usage is doubled though, but it doesn't seem to affect anything as they still have 6 hours (well I guess they take it from the ship when they leave, I think).

Now on to the big changes.. Parts. Lets start with converters.

Carbon Extractor:

  • Cost goes from 1000 to 6800
  • Mass 0.1 to 5.0
  • Efficiency reduced by half. Probably to scale with the reduced oxygen consumption.
  • Max CO2 divided by 11

Sabatier

  • Costs goes from 1000 to 7200
  • Mass 0.1 to 5.3
  • Half the water, a fifth of the CO2, half the electricity
  • Output halved
  • Max CO2 divided by 11

Water Purifier

  • Cost 2000 to 5000
  • Mass .45 to 3.0
  • 40% less WasteWater input and Water output. 13x less electricity
  • Max WasteWater divided by 10

And that is all I have time for right now. Hopefully this gives a idea of the general changes (unless of course I'm completely stupid and misreading the files).

Sorry I did not keep track of before/after numbers, but your numbers sound like they are in the right ballpark. It looks like you were only looking at the "units" that are produced/consumed, which are affected by the change in density in addition to other changes. That is why food consumption looks like it is higher but water and oxygen consumption look like they were decreased.

I'm sorry if this has been asked before but looking through 200 pages of posts would take way to long.

What lines would I enter into a command pods config to add the on board life-support?

As Taki117 said, it should happen automatically using a ModuleManager script. Did it miss one? Any part with crew capacity (up to 30!) should get the part module, but only command pods get 3 days of resources added.

Yep. This looks right. I switched to the new version with an existing Mun base and an expedition to Duna on the way and it went all well...

The much heavier recyclers will need consideration for future flights. I'm probably also going to make some adjustments to my greenhouses in the next couple of days.

Thanks for the great summary!

Sorry, I was missing your greenhouses here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Description#greenhouses! I'm trying to make sure I have everybody's stuff listed.

I know the consumption rates can be adjusted by the player to suit their needs, but is it possible for a player to adjust the amount of resources in a vessel (I am guessing this is the items in the pods) back to the older values without having the version checker getting mad? It is kind of odd before my space station had 78 days of everything, except electric charge, but now it has 49 days of food, 145 days of water, and 158 days of oxygen. If I cannot change them back it is not that big of a deal, it just means more micro managing than I had originally planned on doing.

Do you want to adjust the current amount on your ships? Or the starting amount in each pod and supply container when you create a new ship? If you want the former, then use the numbers in the spreadsheet to calculate how much of each resource you want, then edit your persistent.sfs file with the desired values (backup your file first!).

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Liowen

Liowen

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Strangely enough reverting back to the consumption rates (using the old plugin data config) put my base back on its old remaining supplies, But now I am considering changing them back since I started them emergency supply run. I may sleep on it and decide what I should do in the morning.

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TaranisElsu

TaranisElsu

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Strangely enough reverting back to the consumption rates (using the old plugin data config) put my base back on its old remaining supplies, But now I am considering changing them back since I started them emergency supply run. I may sleep on it and decide what I should do in the morning.

That's because the amount of supplies in your existing vessels (your base) has not changed. Only the rate at which the supplies are consumed. New vessels should be more consistent since they will be created with the right ratio of supplies.

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TaranisElsu

TaranisElsu

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Hey quick question - did any of the resources change (not consumption rates, just the core resources themselves)? Just so I know if I need to do a CRP update?

Version 0.10 changed all of the consumption rates, the resource densities, and the amount of resources in each part.

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TaranisElsu

TaranisElsu

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This plugin is awesome, but it would be better if there was an method to calculate the time with and without the recyclers.

Fear no more! :)

I made a spreadsheet exactlly for that, so I'm sharing with everyone using this mod. It has the instructions in it and two examples.

Link to the spreadsheet.

Are you sure the Water Purifier gives infinite reuse? It should only run at 90% efficiency, which should act like a 10x multiplier...

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tygoo7

tygoo7

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Hi I love this mod but I can't figure out how to uninstall it. I found this mod a bit too complicating for me, since I'm not for total realism, I'm trying to get Snacks! but when I uninstall this, a lot of my crafts still have oxygen, water, food, ect. on them even without the mod installed? Help?

EDIT: I'm figuring it out sort of by editing my persistence.

Edited by tygoo7
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Marcelo Silveira

Marcelo Silveira

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Are you sure the Water Purifier gives infinite reuse? It should only run at 90% efficiency, which should act like a 10x multiplier...

That's right, haven't noticed that the water usage had changed. I adapted this table from version .9, thats why it has this error for .10

Recalculating for the new values, the efficiency is 87.25% witch results in 6,84x multiplier.

Edited by Marcelo Silveira
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Zablonski

Zablonski

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This plugin is awesome, but it would be better if there was an method to calculate the time with and without the recyclers.

Fear no more! :)

I made a spreadsheet exactlly for that, so I'm sharing with everyone using this mod. It has the instructions in it and two examples.

Link to the spreadsheet.

If it aids clarity and/or avoids a confusing 20mins for anyone (as it was for me), Marcelo's spreadsheet is in Earth Days. The Build Aid for this mod is in Kerbin Days.

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Marcelo Silveira

Marcelo Silveira

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If it aids clarity and/or avoids a confusing 20mins for anyone (as it was for me), Marcelo's spreadsheet is in Earth Days. The Build Aid for this mod is in Kerbin Days.

I'm already working on a Kerbin days version. The Build aid is in kerbals days if you play in kerbal days, if you play in Earth days (like me), it will display in Earth days.

Edited by Marcelo Silveira
typo
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TaranisElsu

TaranisElsu

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Are the consumption rates based on what a human would need per hour? Just wondering if any of you lower the consumption rates at all for real solar system which is 10 times the scale of the Kerbol system so transfers take a lot longer.

The consumption rates are about 1/4 of what a human would consume per hour. My math is all here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aioc9ek3XAvwdGNsRlh3OVhlbTFBR3M4RW0zLUNTRFE&usp=sharing

If you play with RSS, you should actually increase the consumption, assuming you are also using a lot of the realism changes in Realism Overhaul. My calculations for human rates are also in the spreadsheet.

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