[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

You might eat those words when you find yourself with a stranded Kerbal...no, I've never had any Kerbals stuck six hours away from Kerbin with five hours worth of life support, why do you ask?

[Gryphon]

That makes sense. I will boost up there consumption then. Having 29 days for a mun mission seems to easy.

If 29 days for a mun mission seems too easy, then don't take along a hex can. Remember, Command Pod Mk1 includes about three Kerbal-days worth of supplies. THAT should be enough for a Mun-mission, with a day out, a day back, and the rest for exploration time. (You may want to have a plan for what happens when your lander tips over and breaks.)

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You might eat those words when you find yourself with a stranded Kerbal...no, I've never had any Kerbals stuck six hours away from Kerbin with five hours worth of life support, why do you ask?

My best TAC-LS-related emergency rescue was caused by a power shortage with no solar panels available. (Follow the quote link for the details.)

I just completed my toughest rescue in KSP.

[bradleyjh]

Love this plugin, after seeing bill gates drink water from the Janice Omniprocessor I was thinking it would be pretty cool if there was a TAC module that "incinerated" waste to produce electricity. Perhaps it could also require a tiny amount of liquid fuel and oxidiser to "keep the fire going" ? I think it would make a great addition to the filters and as far as I can see the waste (excluding waste water) currently has no use? Am probably wrong...

[eightiesboi]

Consumption rate issue?

I have a feeling I may have screwed up my electricity consumption rate here. As you can see, my Mk 1 Command Capsule has 1d of food, 5 hours of water, 4 hours of oxygen, and less than an hour of electricity. Is this right?

Screenshot here: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=FE34D6542466878C!62060&authkey=!AAQGOLP4IHqXH-U&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng

Edited January 8, 2015 by eightiesboi
Wrong link

[Aedile]

you should have around 2hr electric and 18hr of the rest by default

[eightiesboi]

you should have around 2hr electric and 18hr of the rest by default

Would you mind posting (or sending me a link) to your LifeSupport.cfg file from your game? I'd like to compare it with mine.

[Maelztrom]

So I've noticed some values are off on the Water Filter units. After long periods of running, water is actually created.

Based on your spreadsheet of Kerbal usage, the output of the filters should be 0.0000111880787 to maintain equilibrium.

I edited my own mod with the figure above, and stations running for years keep the same amount of water.

[panarchist]

So I've noticed some values are off on the Water Filter units. After long periods of running, water is actually created.

Based on your spreadsheet of Kerbal usage, the output of the filters should be 0.0000111880787 to maintain equilibrium.

I edited my own mod with the figure above, and stations running for years keep the same amount of water.

That's actually correct. The net gain in water is due to the water reclaimed from food consumed. Or are you saying that even accounting for that, water is still created?

[Maelztrom]

I'm saying that in a closed system mass should stay constant. The gain is during the filtration process: more water comes out than in.

I guess it makes a little sense that some food may be converted to water but I'd assume food stored for space travel would be dried to reduce volume.

I found it to rapidly create water in a way that seems impossible, especially considering solid waste contains water too.

At any rate I noticed the error when creating a greenhouse mod to work with TAC specifically, and balancing water / oxy /food intakes for Kerbals. The problem arose when the water filters stopped due to full water tanks and failed to produce enough waste for conversion to biomass. While it makes sense that solid / liquid gas waste gets mixed up in bodies, for simplification purposes I like to keep conservation of mass between the three.

Basically i'm saying a filter should, logically' produce the exact same amount a of water a kerbal 'peeing' into it consumes, at least not more.

[tomf]

Mass is conserved by the default configuration. Have you taken the different densities into account?

[Maelztrom]

hmm, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me that the filter would produce more water from 1 kerbal's day of waste water than a kerbal would need to drink in a day. I suppose it's possible, and I've no frame of reference to refute it, but it seems illogical especially in a likely dehydrated food environment. I'd imagine that a body would lose more water through solid waste and breathing than gained even from regular food.

Can someone from the TAC team confirm the default figure is intended and will stay static so I can confidently readjust my mod? (I guess it'd make sense if my greenhouse used more water)

[lextacy]

Hey, can someone help me out with a problem. I had TAC life support kill off all my crew when it still had food,oxygen,water. So to revive my crew back onboard I edited the save file. Now I got the crew back on the station by using the "assign" trick. However TAC will not register them as valid members of consumers.

As you can see on the bottom, the TAC window for Life Support Crew Roster says 0:00 for everything. Although the KISS has 400+ days of resources. I might have missed something in the save file that I need to edit. I hope someone can help me getting these crew members TAC compliant.

[tomf]

hmm, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me that the filter would produce more water from 1 kerbal's day of waste water than a kerbal would need to drink in a day. I suppose it's possible, and I've no frame of reference to refute it, but it seems illogical especially in a likely dehydrated food environment. I'd imagine that a body would lose more water through solid waste and breathing than gained even from regular food.

Even dehydrated food contains a lot of hydrogen in carbohydrates which combines with breathed oxygen to make water.

[Maelztrom]

FOUND MY ISSUE! I failed to calculate waste water made from washing / other things.

To be fair I was correct in my assumption that there's no way you pee more liquid water than drink was correct. You absorb 90% of the water you drink.

Anyway thanks for attempting to help guys.

[Zeenobit]

Might this be the problem? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64117-0-90-Modular-Fuel-Tanks-v5-4-0?p=1621816&viewfull=1#post1621816

The NEEDS[!modularFuelTanks&!RealFuels] is there because there is a second file that adds the resources in a way that is better compatible with those mods.

I was having this exact issue as Gecko347 on a new 0.90 install, and I don't use MFT or RealFuels. I managed to fix it by deleting the TacLifeSupportMFT folder and removing NEEDS[!modularFuelTanks&!RealFuels] from all the entries in MM_AddResources.cfg

[CorBlimey]

Is it possible to install this in the middle of a career game? I am already on a 2nd restart and don't quite fancy the grind to get 2M funds to unlock some toys

I read somewhere that Kerbals don't start consuming resources until the first time they are loaded into the 2.5km active range, so I am hoping I can install -> despatch a supply ship -> wait a few hundred days -> land supply ship -> feed them.

It sounds like yes, but if you have any tips for a first-time TAC'er then...!

[tomf]

Starting mid career is fine. I would make sure you don't have any interplanatary missions actively going on as they might find they are a long way from Kerbin with only 3 days of supplies. Get ready to send out supply ships to long term space stations. Anything that you can't dock a supply carrying module to is going to be a pain to keep supplied too so either evacuate the kerbals or end the mission. Keeping ground based stations that weren't specifically designed for wheeled docking supplied is also problematic.

[SmashBrown]

I am using snacks but i might switch for this as it puts into use universal storage' oxygen and water tanks, i think. Are there any other part mods for this?

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Such as greenhouses etc etc.

[darloth]

If you also have Universal Storage, or are willing to spend 5 minutes tweaking the config files of the Cargo Transfer Bags (they need just a little prodding to be balanced for the latest version) then either of those options can also resupply a base that isn't easily dockable. Could possibly be quite fiddly, but they'll get the job done.

[panarchist]

To be fair I was correct in my assumption that there's no way you pee more liquid water than drink was correct. You absorb 90% of the water you drink.

Yep - respiration and perspiration combined are actually responsible for more water loss than urine is. As for absorbing 90% of what you drink - that depends on hydration level, if food is consumed at the same time, and other factors. Overall, that's probably an accurate estimate, but it's highly variable.

NASA/CRâ€â€2004–208941 - (Advanced Life Support Baseline Values and Assumptions Document) has a lot of that info, and is the document used by both TaranisElsu for TAC LS and Paul Kingtiger for Universal Storage to get their values for their mods.

[Aedile]

That's actually correct. The net gain in water is due to the water reclaimed from food consumed. Or are you saying that even accounting for that, water is still created?

We have talked about this many times.

It is normal and realistic that water is created.

Food when metabolized, do in fact produce large amount of water and CO2. In reality you'd be losing between half and two thirds of your oxygen to water (I don't think TAC actually does this).

[munseeker]

Taranis keeps a list of available part mods here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Description#parts

Please note: Haven't tested my greenhouse yet with 0.90 (I'm in the middle of a career game), but I expect it to work just fine.

[RainDreamer]

I am using snacks but i might switch for this as it puts into use universal storage' oxygen and water tanks, i think. Are there any other part mods for this?

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Such as greenhouses etc etc.

While I would recommend MKS/OKS for greenhouses and integration with TAC, it is quite complex. There is the greenhouse by Munseeker above, and there is this one which is dead, but should still work with TAC. How well though, I have no idea.

For other containers though, I suggest either the Cargo Transport Bags mod or the containers from R.R dynamics. They should be working just fine, I am using them now, even.

[Olympic1]

While I would recommend MKS/OKS for greenhouses and integration with TAC, it is quite complex. There is the greenhouse by Munseeker above, and there is this one which is dead, but should still work with TAC. How well though, I have no idea.

For other containers though, I suggest either the Cargo Transport Bags mod or the containers from R.R dynamics. They should be working just fine, I am using them now, even.

There is also the Biomass mod. They are updating it for 0.90

[Rayder]

Food when metabolized, do in fact produce large amount of water and CO2. In reality you'd be losing between half and two thirds of your oxygen to water (I don't think TAC actually does this).

I've actually been trying to do the calculations to figure out the numbers, but I think I'm hitting a roadblock. The process is C6H12O6 + 6 O2 > 6 CO2 + 6 H2O. So if my numbers are correct, you should have:

1kg Glucose + 1.07kg Oxygen --> 1.47kg CO2 + 0.6kg H2O

According to NASA's numbers, 0.62kg food and 0.84kg Oxygen is consumed per day per astronaut. But here's my problem. Even if you assumed that the whole 0.62kg food / day is glucose, the Oxygen needed is only ~0.66kg. So where is that other oxygen going? What happens to it?