[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[Sarxis]

I'm having an odd problem with the kerbal's electricity numbers. When they EVA, they seem to be taking all of the vehicle's electricity with them as they exit. So that, in one case, my eva kerbal ended up with 250/350 electricity while my craft went to zero. When the kerbal boarded, the vehicle's electricity went back to ~250 (minus what was used).

edit: I did install the human resources cfg, so that explains the large resource count on electricity I think..

Edited December 22, 2014 by Sarxis

[rose4100]

Hey Athlonic, do you have a link to remote tech 1.6? The most recent one i can find is v1.5.2.

[Athlonic]

Hey Athlonic, do you have a link to remote tech 1.6? The most recent one i can find is v1.5.2.

Use 1.5.2, this is the latest KSP v0.90 update.

v1.6 is devbuild and have issues and stuff you don't want

link : http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/83305-0-25-0-RemoteTech-v1-5-1?p=1619975&viewfull=1#post1619975

Edited December 22, 2014 by Athlonic

[TaranisElsu]

In the testing that I have done, my quick fix seems to be working fine in 0.90. Expect it to become the official release soon.

The only problem that I ran into was compatibility with ModularFuelTanks. It looks like the KSPAPIExtensions.dll was left out of version 5.3.0. I downloaded the current KSPAPIExtensions file and that fixed it.

I'm having an odd problem with the kerbal's electricity numbers. When they EVA, they seem to be taking all of the vehicle's electricity with them as they exit. So that, in one case, my eva kerbal ended up with 250/350 electricity while my craft went to zero. When the kerbal boarded, the vehicle's electricity went back to ~250 (minus what was used).

edit: I did install the human resources cfg, so that explains the large resource count on electricity I think..

When Kerbals go on EVA, they take as much of all the supplies as their suit can hold unless there are more Kerbals left in the ship. If one other Kerbal is there, the Kerbal going on EVA will only take up to half the remaining supplies. Two Kerbals left means up to one third, etc. If nobody else is there, then the Kerbals are greedy and take what they can.

If they (I didn't write the human-rate config file) changed it so that Kerbals need more electricity, then the Kerbal will take with him an appropriate amount. The easy solution is to put more batteries on the vessel.

According to this comment, Kerbals don't start using resources until you get within 2.5km of them, once you get that close and they load, the kerbal then has 2 hours until they suffocate

This is correct: Kerbals don't start using resources until the first time that you get within 2.5 km (when the game loads them into the current scene). When they are loaded for the first time, they are given a random amount of resources so they should last for a variable amount of time plus the two hours after they run out of resources. The orbital period in low Kerbin orbit is around 30-40 minutes, so you should have time for almost four full orbits, but try to time it so that you close the last distance quickly when rendezvousing.

Just cannot extract that fix. Downloaded the zip-file (for Win) twice. Have tried OS zip extractor and 7-zip with no luck.

I hope you got it figured out? I assume that your download was getting corrupted because I have not had anyone else report a problem. And I use 7-zip to make the archive.

Is it just me or does this mod make KSP really difficult and unrewarding? The "build a colony on x planet" contracts do not seem to even cover half the cost involved in getting them self-sufficient nor does the science reward feel worth all the 3+ launch effort of a MKS/OKS.... Maybe I'm doing something wrong, are their easier ways to help Kerbals survive without a full on station?

Since the contracts don't specify a duration, you could put the station or base in place, complete the contract, then move it or the Kerbals off to somewhere else. I have found it fairly easy though to make stations or bases with a year's worth of supplies, so I do that. And if the station/base is somewhere that I would want a more permanent setup, then I would do the full ISRU route -- I have not yet because I don't get much time to play . I have yet to set up a station outside the Kerbin system and have not built any bases.

[TaranisElsu]

I have a ship with a Carbon Extractor on board, and it's running out of oxygen. Is this intended behaviour?

Details:

Running TAC LS 0.10.1.13 on KSP 0.25, Linux 64-bit.

4 kerbals on board.

Initial supplies: 2 Mk2 pods, 4 small hexcans, 2 large food containers.

Recyclers: 2 carbon extractors, 2 water purifiers.

Resources panel: https://flic.kr/p/qbEFNC

This happened when I was between the orbits of Duna and Dres, on a Kerbin-Jool transfer.

Did you figure it out? What did the Build Aid window say in the editor? When I throw together a vessel with those parts, it says that I'd have 3033 days of Food, and only 25 days each of Water and Oxygen. I don't think that is enough Water or Oxygen, even with recycling. Since you were between the orbits of Duna & Dres, you might have simply run out of Oxygen.

I notice that you have no CarbonDioxide, so the carbon extractors would not be able to replenish your oxygen supply. Any idea where it all went? I also noticed that you have no Waste but you should be generating tons of it from the recyclers and the Kerbals themselves.

Note that for 4 Kerbals, you would only need one each of the carbon extractors and water purifiers. They should work for up to 8 Kerbals (which it should say in the parts' descriptions).

Thanks! Here we go (call it something like "TACLS_CTT.cfg"):

@PART[TacAirFilter|TacWaterPurifier|TacWaterPurifierLarge]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,TechManager]
{
    @requiredTech = recycling
}

@PART[TacCarbonExtractor|TacCarbonExtractorLarge|TacSabatierRecycler|TacSabatierRecyclerLarge|TacWaterSplitter]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,TechManager]
{
    @requiredTech = enhancedSurvivability
}

I put the filter/purifier parts under "Recycling", and the various reactors under "Enhanced Survivability". I was okay with leaving the big storage units in "Heavy Rocketry" since that's pretty much required for long-term missions anyway.

If this makes sense to you, feel free to include it in your next release!

Thank you for doing that, and especially thanks for putting it in a Github pull request. I will look at including that in the next release.

[TaranisElsu]

The mod adds life support resources to most pods and cabins, so as long as your superfast with a refit mission once a 0.90 version is released you will be fine. Thw window you will have would be determined by what command parts the station is built with and how many kerbals are there, but regardless if your fast on refit it should be ok (unless ya got 40 kerbals or something and only 1 man pod on whole station).

You can get away with immediately launching a life-support module to your space station without kerbals dying, as long as you don't take more than a few hours to rendezvous and dock.

Doesn't TAC-LS have an option to disable life support for a save? You could do that, launch a life support module, dock it, then enable life support again.

Pre-existing vessels are actually handled similarly to rescue Kerbals. A vessel has to be loaded before my mod will start tracking life support for it. So you have time to send a resupply ship to a station around Laythe (for example) as long as you don't load the vessel in any way before rendezvousing and docking. So don't jump to it through the tracking station or the map. Or fly any other ship near it.

Or do as Sp33d3h said. It is not cheating if you just installed my mod. Because I say so .

It only applies to Win64 as far as I know. I've been using TACLS for a long time in Linux x64 build and never encountered with a problem.

@eataTREE

By the way it is working for me in Linux x64 build properly.

batuhantasli is correct that this mod works fine in the Linux 64-bit KSP (as far as I know). I only do not support the Windows 64-bit KSP because it is so buggy and inconsistent that it is impossible to figure out which are mod issues vs stock issues. Your experience may be different so I do not disable the mod, but I will not accept problem reports unless you can reproduce the issue in the Win32, Linux, or Mac versions. And I cannot waste time helping you debug it, sorry.

Hmm, so the "quick fix update" doesn't seem to be working for me. No build aid, no configuration window, and life support resources don't appear to be consumed. I can still place all the parts however. This is x64/Linux. Any ideas, or do I just need to sit on my hands and wait?

I need a log file before I can do anything to help. Do you happen to have Tarsier Space Technology? If so, TriggerAu uploaded a fix on its thread. I also helped someone else debug and fix the conflict several pages ago (in this thread). If you don't have Tarsier, then please follow the instructions in my signature.

[cantab]

Did you figure it out? What did the Build Aid window say in the editor? When I throw together a vessel with those parts, it says that I'd have 3033 days of Food, and only 25 days each of Water and Oxygen. I don't think that is enough Water or Oxygen, even with recycling. Since you were between the orbits of Duna & Dres, you might have simply run out of Oxygen.

I notice that you have no CarbonDioxide, so the carbon extractors would not be able to replenish your oxygen supply. Any idea where it all went? I also noticed that you have no Waste but you should be generating tons of it from the recyclers and the Kerbals themselves.

Note that for 4 Kerbals, you would only need one each of the carbon extractors and water purifiers. They should work for up to 8 Kerbals (which it should say in the parts' descriptions).

Confirming those figures in the Build Aid. I get the same whether or not I have the recyclers active or even on the ship at all, so I'm assuming it doesn't take that into account. The lack of waste is due to disabling the storage to save mass, though on checking I see the saving is trivial.

The lack of carbon dioxide though I've no idea about. Earlier in the mission it was filling up normally with the recyclers inactive, then draining and the oxygen filling when I activated them. I'm also confused by the presence of both full water and full wastewater supplies, when the ship started with full water and empty waste water.

The duplicate provision is just for keeping the CoM balanced, since my main ship lacks any on-axis docking ports so everything attached needs to be in pairs.

My question though is basically:

Are the recyclers meant to be 100% efficient, meaning that a recycler plus a small amount of supplies should support a mission indefinitely for air and water and leave food as the only limiting factor? That implies that what's happened to my ship is a bug, so I'll feel nothing wrong in editing the savefile to work around it.

Or are they meant to be less than 100% efficient, meaning that even with recycling you still need sufficient initial supplies and no mission can be indefinitely self-sufficient in air and/or water? In that case what's happened to my ship is intentional behaviour, so I'll have to send more supplies legitimately.

(I can see that the VAB has info on the waste consumption and resource production rates of the recyclers, but that alone doesn't help me since I don't know the resource consumption and waste production rates for the Kerbals.)

[Errol]

I would just like to say that I have been using the quick fix in ksp .90 32 bit win 8.1 along with deadly re-entry, FAR, MKS et al, KCT, and remote tech with zero issues so far. Build aid window has been working. Have only done one manned mission so far (hacked .cfgs of the DP-01 and stayputnik tech required to start, for realism) and everything is gravy.

Like gravy on poutine....

Because america doesn't have a a monopoly on ridiculously tasty and unhealthy foods, and this is a life support mod thread.

OH KANADA!

Thank you again for this mod, Love it, and can't play without it.

[jakeat133]

can you make a version for 0.90 beta then ever please:)

[panarchist]

can you make a version for 0.90 beta then ever please:)

Look 6 posts up before yours. The first page of this thread also has the link to the temporary fix.

[TThor]

In the testing that I have done, my quick fix seems to be working fine in 0.90. Expect it to become the official release soon.

I would just like to take time to say, you are awesome, your mod is awesome, keep up the great work!

[Positr0n]

Compared to vanilla I mean, vanilla they survive indefinitely which this mod removes, maybe I'm thinking of it wrong but to me it feels like the only thing it adds is difficulty which I don't really enjoy. I, personally, think it's challenge is quite balanced already.

The lack of life support is not a feature... The idea of TAC-LS is not make it more "difficult" per se, it's to make your rockets, orbital space stations, and planetary colonies actually come to life by making it able to sustain life. When it comes to this game in Vanilla, it is far too simple a system and doesn't invoke enough thought into actual design. Thus the reason I also always add this mod, RemoteTech, FAR , and the full USI Pack before even beginning a new career.

[jerem6029]

Hello everyone! I'm sorry for my english but I'm french and I use google translation ...

I am also desolated if the answer is already posted but I do not understand everything ...: /

I have a problem with the mod. Indeed pods contain "life support" which decreases as time 0 but once my Kerbal dies (in 5/6 rounds orbits Kerbin).

So I put 300 days of life support (food, water, oxygen, waste ...).

Unable worth going even Mun ...

(PS: my mods are: TAC life support, FAR, BTSm, KWrocketry ...)

Thank you in advance for any answers on the French forum.

[RCgothic]

I'm unsure what your question is? Your mod works. It should not take 300 days to go to the Mun.

[jerem6029]

In fact it is the "life support" in the gauge pods ... when it reaches 0 (in a few orbits), the Kerbal dies in the pod. While there with food etc for 300 days hung pod.

I do not know if I'm clear ... :/

So, my question is : is that normal? ^^

Edited December 24, 2014 by jerem6029

[Errol]

I think what he means is that his craft has 300 days of supplies aboard but the kerbals die anyway. I wonder if perhaps there is a flow issue with TAC containers? We would need to see your .craft file to help you.

[drtedastro]

Bad snacks... Don't you hate bad snacks.....

[undercoveryankee]

I think what he means is that his craft has 300 days of supplies aboard but the kerbals die anyway. I wonder if perhaps there is a flow issue with TAC containers? We would need to see your .craft file to help you.

If the kerbals are using life support in their pod but not from containers elsewhere on the ship, that does sound like a flow issue. Flow issues shouldn't happen with the resources all having ALL_VESSEL flow.

Here's a guess: If this is on 0.90, is the space center upgrade for manual resource transfer unlocked? If not, that may be changing the behavior of some of the APIs that TAC uses to test how much is left.

[almagnus1]

They may also be running out of power, or running out of places to put waste, as Life Support and Waste storage are two different parts (IIRC).

[Kimm]

Hello everyone! I'm sorry for my english but I'm french and I use google translation ...

I am also desolated if the answer is already posted but I do not understand everything ...: /

I have a problem with the mod. Indeed pods contain "life support" which decreases as time 0 but once my Kerbal dies (in 5/6 rounds orbits Kerbin).

So I put 300 days of life support (food, water, oxygen, waste ...).

Unable worth going even Mun ...

(PS: my mods are: TAC life support, FAR, BTSm, KWrocketry ...)

As far as I know, BTSM uses its own life support system, which does not correlating with TAC LS. Perhaps you just running out of BTSM native supply so quicky.

[jerem6029]

As far as I know, BTSM uses its own life support system, which does not correlating with TAC LS. Perhaps you just running out of BTSM native supply so quicky.

Yes! I see that yesterday...

But I'd rather keep BTSM, and just remove the life support ... I happen to delete the parts of life support but still consumes Kerbal this one ... and dies. ^^

Thank you

[Errol]

They may also be running out of power, or running out of places to put waste, as Life Support and Waste storage are two different parts (IIRC).

I thought that waste is simply dumbed if there is no storage for it. You just miss out on recycling opportunities that way.

Yes! I see that yesterday...

But I'd rather keep BTSM, and just remove the life support ... I happen to delete the parts of life support but still consumes Kerbal this one ... and dies. ^^

Thank you

Just remove the folders you added to GameData when you you downloaded TAC-LS. If you still have the plugin, kerbals are still mortal and get hungry.

[Hevak]

I thought that waste is simply dumbed if there is no storage for it. You just miss out on recycling opportunities that way.

.

This is correct. ^^ abundance of wastes will never cause kerbals to die.

So to the op's issue most likely the reason why kerbals are dying with LS supplies present is often because of power being gone or TAC LS "thinking" power is gone. Kerbals will last 2 hours without power.. And power is not generated as far as TAC is concerned when unfocused and also I think in high warp too? 5-6 orbits will most likely be over 2 hours of time as mine are usually in the 25-30 min+ range depending on altitude.

So if kerbals die when focused or ship loaded while doing orbits then most likely your craft does not have enough power generation to sustain what sas consumes or anything else you may be using that draws power.

If it is dying while orbiting while the craft is not focused or unloaded then what is happening is TAC LS "thinks" the power has run out and then kills kerbals after 2 hours.. Generally you have to watch the timer on the LS window for power and simply reload the ship when that timer gets low. So if you're warping time this is usually why they die..

Either add some Rtg's or solar for issues when focused, or Add extra batteries to give more EC storage which will give you a longer timer for TAC to "think" there is power when unfocused.

power requirement is used as a way to put the whole capsule climate issue into TAC without adding more resources or things like temp etc. To worry about.. So if I remember right how taraniselu explained it. Think of power as what makes air circulation, and temperature work in the capsule, without actually having to monitor or worry about specific temperatures or oxygen levels.

300 days of supplies if way more than enough for the mun trip. In fact if you are efficient in your travel vectors you can go to the mun, orbit once or twice and make it back to kerbin in time with just the supplies on the capsule. Though depending on flight efficiency you will generally be cutting it close on oxygen by the time you get back to kerbin. So most likely it's one of the above issues causing those kerbals to die in 5-6 kerbin orbits.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Hevak

[kiwiak]

i noticed that list of additional parts in wiki is missing this one:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70986-0-23-Cargo-Transfer-Bags-and-Tanks%28for-TAC-life-support%29-0-7

[notsorightstuph]

Oh TAC LS I need you in my BETA game!

Where is the update?

:'(