[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Undecided]

About the problems you had earlier, did they go away when you installed the experimental version? if not then you installed it wrong, do not install the version in the OP first, just download and install the experimental, that or delete ALL folders relating to KSPI in your GameData folder, WarpPlugin, ORS ALL OF IT, and then reinstall, otherwise you will have issues. I've seen allot of people that have the issue you describe and it is always due to either having Fractal's version for .23.5 installed or improperly trying to install WaveFunction's version by overwriting.

Yeah, got the issue fixed by installing the experimental.

Since Fractal has been MIA for months now WaveFunction has essentially taken over development, his experimental version is the only one that works on .24, and he is now working on a v.12 that he will release on a new thread essentially as a new fork of Interstellar, and he is making allot of optimization changes and large over all balance adjustments from what I understand. I know that one of the changes he is making is TweakScale support, this way instead of having 4 different versions of the same reactors you have one that you can tweak from .625 up to 3.75, maybe even 5m if he decides to add that, and all the power output and resource stuff adjusts accordingly, this will save on part clutter and RAM, but it will also break any ships in your save that have the reactors on them, you will have to rebuild them if you update.

Wave's next planned release of Interstellar replaces families of similar parts in different sizes with single parts with TweakScale support. That will break any in-flight ships that use the removed parts.

This is just an idea, but when I encountered a similar problem with a different game (modder/debugger here) someone on our team just wrote a basic save-game converter: a program that just opened up obsolete saves as text files and basically ran a search-and-replace on references to the old parts and overwrote them with the newer ones. I would assume that the tweak-based parts have to conform to the same basic parsing rules as the fixed parts, so it should very well be possible to do. You just have to be certain that the parts are identical sizes.

(Disclaimer: I'm pretty new to working with the KSP game engine's code, so it'd be good to get a veteran modder that's familiar with tweakscale and KSPI could confirm or deny whether this is feasible).

[Akira_R]

Yeah, got the issue fixed by installing the experimental.

Glad you got it fixed

This is just an idea, but when I encountered a similar problem with a different game (modder/debugger here) someone on our team just wrote a basic save-game converter: a program that just opened up obsolete saves as text files and basically ran a search-and-replace on references to the old parts and overwrote them with the newer ones. I would assume that the tweak-based parts have to conform to the same basic parsing rules as the fixed parts, so it should very well be possible to do. You just have to be certain that the parts are identical sizes.

(Disclaimer: I'm pretty new to working with the KSP game engine's code, so it'd be good to get a veteran modder that's familiar with tweakscale and KSPI could confirm or deny whether this is feasible).

I have heard of this being done, both manually and with a simple executable, however those were instances where the part essentially remained the same the only major change was a rename, or when parts are being deprecated a place holder was installed with essentially the same model and no functions. That being said since this involves TweakScale I don't know how much it will change things. One could compare two ships made with the same parts one just using TweakScale and the other not and may be able to figure something out. The other issue is that of the rebalance, I don't know all of whats being changed, I know things like engine thrust values are being adjusted and such, but it may be the case that after the update some ships just wont function as designed anymore, for instance if heat generation is changed you may not have enough radiators etc. That's something that we would have to wait until the update to find out though.

TL;DR we will have to wait until the update comes out to see how feasible it is and if someone wants to take the time to write an executable for it, or you could just edit your persistence file manually but that could take a long time if you have allot of ships.

[Aeon-Phoenix]

I've found an most annoying bug. I have an antimatter collecting station now. with loads of collectors driven by a central fusionreactor, that also keeps the antimatter tanks going. After loads of timewarp i had one of the small tanks full and decided to dock my first warp ship to the station and transfer over the antimatter. The warpship had both a small fusion and antimatter reactor, so i always have enough electricity to keep the antimatter tanks alive.

well long talk: i tried to transfer the antimatter over and it was gone. poof. gone. ragequit.

[Crim1]

Just checking in after a few weeks. You still alive WaveFunction? Hope updating interstellar isnt causing hair to grey, missed ur twitch any ETA on your new update? Putting off my series until my must have mods are useable.

[sober667]

Glad you got it fixed

I have heard of this being done, both manually and with a simple executable, however those were instances where the part essentially remained the same the only major change was a rename, or when parts are being deprecated a place holder was installed with essentially the same model and no functions. That being said since this involves TweakScale I don't know how much it will change things. One could compare two ships made with the same parts one just using TweakScale and the other not and may be able to figure something out. The other issue is that of the rebalance, I don't know all of whats being changed, I know things like engine thrust values are being adjusted and such, but it may be the case that after the update some ships just wont function as designed anymore, for instance if heat generation is changed you may not have enough radiators etc. That's something that we would have to wait until the update to find out though.

TL;DR we will have to wait until the update comes out to see how feasible it is and if someone wants to take the time to write an executable for it, or you could just edit your persistence file manually but that could take a long time if you have allot of ships.

if everything goes wrong u could shout out parts( if not stack inside) or remove kerbals and save them. a misson to recover all old technology would be good chelenge too

[Rayder]

Is it possible to modify the resources used by KSPI? I'd like to create some resource alignment configs to make mods compatible with each other. I'm making good progress, except with Interstellar. It seems that resources, particularly with reactors, are hard coded into the mod.

So is there a way of changing the resources? Even just the names?

[sober667]

Is it possible to modify the resources used by KSPI? I'd like to create some resource alignment configs to make mods compatible with each other. I'm making good progress, except with Interstellar. It seems that resources, particularly with reactors, are hard coded into the mod.

So is there a way of changing the resources? Even just the names?

u need to cheng names of resousers in ORS and chenge in each part config that store and use it

[RoverDude]

Is it possible to modify the resources used by KSPI? I'd like to create some resource alignment configs to make mods compatible with each other. I'm making good progress, except with Interstellar. It seems that resources, particularly with reactors, are hard coded into the mod.

So is there a way of changing the resources? Even just the names?

FYI, you may want to hop over to the OpenResourceSystem thread or the Community Resource Pack thread... reason being that efforts are already underway - specifically, alignment between MKS/OKS/NFT/KSPI and consolidation of the ORS resources.

Which mods did you have in mind?

[Rayder]

At present it would be KSPI and TAC Life Support, making other mods compatible, like KW rocketry, Near Future Tech and B9. The mod that would bring it all together is Real Fuels.

Then it's just some other minor mods that add tanks/engines, etc.

[RoverDude]

At present it would be KSPI and TAC Life Support, making other mods compatible, like KW rocketry, Near Future Tech and B9. The mod that would bring it all together is Real Fuels.

Then it's just some other minor mods that add tanks/engines, etc.

As I recall Wave was already looking at changing LqdWater to Water, so TAC would already be there Though ultimately that's Wave's call. NFT is also already on the list for integration.

[Shad0wCatcher]

Off topic: Rover your username subtitle is so very very fitting lol. On topic integration would be really sweet

[Rayder]

Thanks Rover, wasn't aware that CRP even existed. Some good reading in there.

My issue is that I'd like the resource names to be simplified, and matching the density for resources that are named differently. Ultimately having a completely transparent resource system which works with every mod installed. For example, using methane and hydrogen in conventional rockets, which is also used in the Life Support cycle. I can see where CRP is going, however it's not my direction.

I'd rather have mod makers setup their mods how they like, and then have my configs override the settings and align everything. Having said that, at this time I'm not planning to publicly release it. More of a personal goal to work with, and to make mods play nice.

[RoverDude]

Thanks Rover, wasn't aware that CRP even existed. Some good reading in there.

My issue is that I'd like the resource names to be simplified, and matching the density for resources that are named differently. Ultimately having a completely transparent resource system which works with every mod installed. For example, using methane and hydrogen in conventional rockets, which is also used in the Life Support cycle. I can see where CRP is going, however it's not my direction.

I'd rather have mod makers setup their mods how they like, and then have my configs override the settings and align everything. Having said that, at this time I'm not planning to publicly release it. More of a personal goal to work with, and to make mods play nice.

A cautionary bit. Overriding other mod's resource configs is very uncool and makes a lot of work for modders, especially when you mess with densities, etc. For your own use is cool, but I would not recommend releasing it into the wild, and if you end up needing mod support, better disclose what you did in your support request.

A good example with densities is that some mods use 1L per unit, others use 5L per unit, and changing these can cause very sudden surprises in the mass of saved craft.

[Rayder]

Yeah that's the main reason I wasn't going to release it. Didn't want to go stepping on modder's toes. They all do great work and I didn't want to undermine them. I found out your second point when I was experimenting with Real Fuels.

As for Interstellar, My main concern was not actually changing any mechanics, just the resource name that was displayed eg, Uranium instead of UF4. Didn't want to go changing anything major as I think Interstellar works well as it is.

Ultimately, my end goal wasn't to change the resources heavily, more just to have them using common resources. Which in most cases just meant renaming them.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Rayder

[Youngbull1980]

Hi I've not played KSP for a little while (since the contracts came out), but have noticed something strange with the Interstellar mod and the Science Lab. If i jump to any of my Space stations or create a new rocket with the Science lab in it, the science lab dettaches from the rest of the station or on the launch pad the rest of the rocket falls "through" the lab (almost as if it doesn't have any collision). anyone else had this problem.

The only other mod's i've get are;

Lazor Docking Cam (I'm really rubbish at docking)

MechJeb (Really really rubbish at docking)

KSP Interstellar

Spaceplane Plus.

as a bit of trial and error i've updated all the mods just incase but still happens. any idea whats happening?

[forsaken1111]

Use wavefunction's update. Fractal is MIA

[Youngbull1980]

sorry am i being blind, but where is wavefunctions update?

[forsaken1111]

sorry am i being blind, but where is wavefunctions update?

Not blind, just a bit lazy.

Look in his sig here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-23-5-KSP-Interstellar-%28Toolbar-Integration-New-Models-New-Tech%29-Version-0-11?p=1358695&viewfull=1#post1358695

[Threadsinger]

sorry am i being blind, but where is wavefunctions update?

Right here buddy

https://github.com/WaveFunctionP/KSPInterstellar/releases

/shakes tiny fist at forsaken

Edited August 22, 2014 by Threadsinger
simulpost

[forsaken1111]

/shakes tiny fist at forsaken

*boop* /fistbump

[ABZB]

was anyone who was there when wavefunction started his twitch feed a few days ago, and modulemanager did that wierd thing where it deleted all the parts, and there was that error in the log where it said it duplicated code?

Does anyone remember what he did to fix that [or is wavefunction and can say it over, being himself ]?

It's happening to me right now, and I DON'T KNOW WHY! [tears hair out]

[WaveFunctionP]

was anyone who was there when wavefunction started his twitch feed a few days ago, and modulemanager did that wierd thing where it deleted all the parts, and there was that error in the log where it said it duplicated code?

Does anyone remember what he did to fix that [or is wavefunction and can say it over, being himself ]?

It's happening to me right now, and I DON'T KNOW WHY! [tears hair out]

I'm pretty sure I was being myself in that instance. You missed it yesterday. A hour of digging through C# code to find an error, when the problem was a missing "T" in a tweakscale config.

I am reasonable certain that the MM problem was a save issue. I get them a lot due to all the error that I try to create.

Edited August 22, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[The Pink Ranger]

Hey guys I'm using real solar system and KIDS doesn't seem to scale the ISP of the thermal rockets at all. I'm trying to figure out what I need to edit to get everything in line with a solar system that's 10 times the scale.

The temperature of the reactor is what controls the ISP of the nozzle attached to it right? I'm thinking I need to tweak the "reactortemp" field in the reactor config files and alter the heat radiators to compensate as well. If this is the case does anyone know how ISP scales with temp? If I can figure out module manager I'd be happy to share the files. Thanks.

Edit: Okay yea doubling the core temp seems to have increased the ISP by a third. Does anyone have a formula that'll make this go smoother?

Edited August 22, 2014 by The Pink Ranger

[WaveFunctionP]

Hey guys I'm using real solar system and KIDS doesn't seem to scale the ISP of the thermal rockets at all. I'm trying to figure out what I need to edit to get everything in line with a solar system that's 10 times the scale.

The temperature of the reactor is what controls the ISP of the nozzle attached to it right? I'm thinking I need to tweak the "reactortemp" field in the reactor config files and alter the heat radiators to compensate as well. If this is the case does anyone know how ISP scales with temp? If I can figure out module manager I'd be happy to share the files. Thanks.

Edit: Okay yea doubling the core temp seems to have increased the ISP by a third. Does anyone have a formula that'll make this go smoother?

Temperature increases isp, and isp decreases thrust. By messing with temperature you'll be boosting thrust on the thermal engines. The engines in kspi are more complex than stock style engines. They will not be compatible with a simple isp scalar.

[The Pink Ranger]

Temperature increases isp, and isp decreases thrust. By messing with temperature you'll be boosting thrust on the thermal engines. The engines in kspi are more complex than stock style engines. They will not be compatible with a simple isp scalar.

Yea found a formula on Fractral's wiki.

P=1/2 * F * ISP * G0, where P is the power of the reactor/ thermal receiver, F is the thrust it provides, ISP is it's ISP, and G0 is the force of gravity at Earth's or Kerbin's surface (9.81 m/s^2).

If thermal power does not affect ISP then all I have to do is:

1: raise core temp till I get the desired ISP

2: raise thermal power to bring thrust back up to where it was

3: Adjust radiators to compensate for higher thermal power

I could go through and do it all experimentally but there's got to be a formula sheet somewhere that'll allow me to adjust everything just by looking at the cfgs.

EDIT:

Okay here's the data I collected on an un-upgraded 3.75 Molten Salt:

Core temp: 1674 Kelvin?

596.2s - 3142.7Kn

Core temp: 1674 x 2

843s - 2222.2Kn

Core temp: 1674 x 4

1192.4s - 1571.3Kn

Now I just need to curve fit it.

Edited August 22, 2014 by The Pink Ranger