Docking Frustration

[DChurchill]

I've used the Docking Camera - and did until DPAI was released. Honestly, all those measurements are meaningless to me - I'm either moving towards alignment, or I'm not. About the only two numbers that matter are my distance to the port and my speed relative to it - and DPAI gives me those. I could get all my other data from the navball, but in DPAI I can keep my eyes on the window. With the alignment needles, I'm able to translate my prograde to the intersection (which represents the real location of the port) and then gradually cancel that relative velocity on my way in. It's not uncommon for me to be lined up dead-on with the port before I'm within 75m of it, and this allows me to approach very rapidly until the last few meters.

I kind of liked the authentic look of the camera, but I honestly think the image of the port is the unnecessary information in that window - and, in fact, it makes it harder to make out the cloud of numbers that surround it. I also don't like the overhead that Romfarer seems to bring to the table, along with some of the glitches I've encountered while it was installed. But I can see why it appeals to some. There's no wrong answer - I'm just going with what's proven to be highly effective for me. I was never able to accomplish high-speed docking maneuvers at these distances or these odd angles with the Docking Camera.

Digital vs. analog I suppose. I like the numbers. Plus, the view looks authentic as heck.

[Randox]

I might give the chase cam a go myself, though I feel like, since I am not using any cams right now, that being able to move around and see my distance as well as my alignment would be useful. I always mark 'up' on my ships anyway, and will usually orient then while docking. I spent some time this afternoon getting back into this, and on that ship, I actually marked 45* up and right, which was interesting. I just forgot to think about it. I also spent some time turning it around and running into the station with a senior port to see if I could get that to work. No dice of course. At least I have so far put on all the docking ports in the right direction.

Tomorrow, I send up a manned rocket to the 'station' (station is a generous term. It's a high capacity crew module with docking ports really. It can fly itself using it's own engine). Beyond taking a look around the station itself, I am towing a new hub into orbit to accommodate the other port sizes.

For me, it's getting close enough to the station that I can use linear flight. I find it easier to approach from behind, I think because you can more intuitively hit the brakes in the right direction. I really enjoy the docking part, but not the getting to it so much.

As for control, I think the docking system would be fantastic for letting me access all the controls while using the mouse (ignoring that my mouse could accomodate them). The problem is that the RCS is almost never going to be perfectly balanced, and it really helps to have both control at once to deal with that.

[daffy]

Not correct. NavyFish's Docking Port Alignment Indicator is a far more powerful aid for docking. A camera can't tell you which way you need to orient to get the port in sight, which way to intuitively translate to move your prograde dead-center, or most of the other things that the DPAI can do.

Honestly, a camera's not very useful for docking, because it only helps once you've already done most of the work.

From what I'm able to see, on my Lazor Docking Cam, is that there is a movement of the center crosshair (red) which does indicate the direction of your travel in relation to the targeted docking port. I've been using it that way at least, and has worked well. It's like 'Stepping on the ball' while controlling lateral or longitudinal direction in an aircraft as you follow the red crosshair hovering on the center point. Also, there are readouts, which are not entirely accurate I think, but close enough for the game value on the lazor docking cam that can be used as guides as well. I've not tried the one you're talking about so I can't compare, but I do think the Lazor Docking Cam is a great tool as well.

[JiWint]

DOcking is simple.Everything you have to trust is your nav-ball,switch to target mode,then to docking mode,and put your prograde vector into the pink one with dot. Approach slowly

[littlebattler]

slap the giant monoprop tank and let mechjeb do it for you.

Alternatively approximate the orientation of the target port, match it then translate all the way to it using RCS.

[KOCOUR]

slap the giant monoprop tank and let mechjeb do it for you.

Alternatively approximate the orientation of the target port, match it then translate all the way to it using RCS.

I let mechjeb do almost anything for me, except docking, and interplanetary transfres. And i dont recomend you letting mechjeb dock for you, cause mechjeb really sucks at docking. When iam docking manualy it is slow aproach and ocassional rcs burst. When MJ is docking its shaking, wild turns and lots and lots of RCS fuell wasted.

Also docking is easy, its the randevouse whats really hard. Here is it exact opposite with MJ: When i randevouse manually, its lots of trajectory changes, circuralizations, and lots of deltaV wasted, when MJ is doing randezvouse, its much quicker and cleaner.

[allmappedout]

I really, really want that RCS Build Aid to become vanilla at some point. It is such an incredibly useful tool, although it would be more useful were you able to test CoM changes by emptying tanks in the VAB to see how it affects the translation.

[NeoMorph]

Not correct. NavyFish's Docking Port Alignment Indicator is a far more powerful aid for docking. A camera can't tell you which way you need to orient to get the port in sight, which way to intuitively translate to move your prograde dead-center, or most of the other things that the DPAI can do.

Honestly, a camera's not very useful for docking, because it only helps once you've already done most of the work.

Obviously you have NEVER used the docking camera mod then and just wrote it off as a camera. The numbers on the right hand side are all the numbers you need to perform a perfectly aligned docking JUST LIKE NASA DOES IT.

I hate people who say something is useless and don't even bother reading how to manual on how to use it... Sheesh.

From the instructions...

Pro tips: Target the docking port you wish to dock with to enable more displays. Use "Control from here" on the docking port where you have the camera open.

The numbers on the docking camera means the following:-

̉ۡX: Angular velocity of the vessel in the horizontal direction (yaw)

̉ۡY: Angular velocity of the vessel in the vertical direction (pitch)

̉ۡZ: Angular velocity of the vessel in the roll direction

v: Total relative velocity vX: Relative velocity in the horizontal direction (red cross)

vY: Relative velocity in the vertical direction (red cross)

°X: Angular displacement along the horizon (white cross)

°Y: Angular displacement along the vertical (white cross)

°Z: Angular displacement, roll (red triangle)

d: Distance to target. If locked, distance to target docking port. If not locked, distance to what the stipled cross hits.

dX: Distance from stipled cross to target docking port along the horizon.

dY: Distance from stipled cross to target docking port along the vertical.

See... that is all the data you need to make a successful docking. I tried to find one from the shuttle but for some reason can't find it... Did find a Russian versions though...

See how similar they are? Thumbs up for Lazor Docking Mod imho... It's one I love to use... Even better now you can double zoom. I hope one day we can do a full screen version.

[regex]

See how similar they are?

They're not, the Lazor one has visible numbers.

I never bothered trying the Lazor camera because the author spelled "laser" wrong.

[NeoMorph]

They're not, the Lazor one has visible numbers. I never bothered trying the Lazor camera because the author spelled "laser" wrong.

OK... colour me confused but I have no idea what you mean regex. They both have numbers. In fact English and Russian versions both have the wX, wY, and wZ visible on the displays. And if you didn't bother because he spelled Laser/Lazer/Lazor wrong then you would probably not use hardly any mods as spelling mistakes happen to the best of us (I cheat and use a spell checker... and still get it wrong at times). Anyway, isn't Lazor spelled that way due to leetspeak? Granted there have been problems with the Lazor mod (mainly due to it bundling EVERYTHING from the mod that I don't use 90% of) but it does work like a real space docking camera would work. This coupled with a balanced payload and you have no problems docking even off centre ports (like how the shuttle docks). Beats auto docking flat. I also use the webcam thingies as well makes it docking fun...

[regex]

OK... colour me confused but I have no idea what you mean regex. They both have numbers. In fact English and Russian versions both have the wX, wY, and wZ visible on the displays. And if you didn't bother because he spelled Laser/Lazer/Lazor wrong then you would probably not use hardly any mods as spelling mistakes happen to the best of us (I cheat and use a spell checker... and still get it wrong at times). Anyway, isn't Lazor spelled that way due to leetspeak? Granted there have been problems with the Lazor mod (mainly due to it bundling EVERYTHING from the mod that I don't use 90% of) but it does work like a real space docking camera would work. This coupled with a balanced payload and you have no problems docking even off centre ports (like how the shuttle docks). Beats auto docking flat. I also use the webcam thingies as well makes it docking fun...

You have no sense of humor.

If you look closely at the Russian picture you'll notice that it has grey numbers against the bright background of the Earth while the Lazor cam has black numbers. Whether the contrast holds true everywhere, I don't know. It's also pretty obvious LAZOR is spelled that way for a reason, that (probably) being the whole "IMA FIRE MA LAZORS" meme.

The Lazor docking cam mod (standalone) caused CTDs in KSP for me so I haven't bothered with trying it, or any other docking cam, since. Besides, I don't feel like I have any personal issues with spatial visualization, or whatever, that compels me to use a docking cam; I much prefer a free cam and a multitude of hotkeys.

Like anything else in KSP, and as multiple people multiple times in this thread have said, Your Mileage May Vary, and my statements of how I play should in no way reflect, or be taken as a slight against, or be considered a means to influence, how you play.

[Apollo13]

The Lazor Docking Camera also caused CTD for me as well, so I removed it. Recently, I added the Lazor Cam v30, which is just a camera that you can place anywhere (it's a fun toy). As a freebie, it also creates an "invisible" Lazor Docking Cam, which DOES NOT crash the game.

So, now I have Navy's DPAI and Lazor Docking Cam.

[HeadHunter67]

Obviously you have NEVER used the docking camera mod then and just wrote it off as a camera. The numbers on the right hand side are all the numbers you need to perform a perfectly aligned docking JUST LIKE NASA DOES IT.

Obviously, you don't understand that different people process information differently. All the numbers in the world mean very little to me when three little graphical icons can convey all the information I need. All I need is:

1) The orientation of my nose/docking port relative to the target port.

2) The relative location of the target port to my craft.

3) The prograde vector of my velocity.

Maybe you work better with numbers - I don't need them. I'd rather be able to see where I'm going. I am not saying the camera is "bad", I'm saying it doesn't suit my needs. I'm terribly sorry if that upsets you. It's too bad that you hate me because your favorite tool doesn't work as well for me as someone else's. If only everyone could see things the way you do, there'd be no need for all that jealous anger, right?

[fastbikkel]

Ps. Dont bother with off center docking ports.

? Why? Maybe i misunderstood you?

I regularly use an off center docking port and i do not notice other problems.

[Rhyunix]

I cannot understand why people can't do it,I did it on my first attempt.

But your Spock...

[Wooks]

To the O.P.

If you already can park your ship close to your target at 0.0 speed relative to it then the hard part is over. There is a lot of good advice on this thread, anything I can say about how to dock will be irrelevant to this point.

On a personal note: my first docking maneuvers where a pain in the rear end, I watched many youtube videos to learn how to do it, had to practice a lot, but when I managed to perform my first successful docking it was extremely satisfying and all was clear to me, all the confusion was gone and all that was left was practice. I hope you can experience the same yourself.

I highly recommend not using any mod for your first dockings in order to understand what are you doing and how it works, and please take your time to understand the use of the navball, is critical. Once you learn how to read the vanilla instruments on your screen you can perform a docking looking at the navball alone.

You will heard a lot of people praising the good use of mods, and I understand that performance mods can make your life easy when you have to repeat the same action again and again (launching, docking, landing), but you need first to understand those maneuvers themselves, and once you have mastered them or at least understand them THEN you can install a mod to do it for you.

Keep challenging yourself

Good luck!

Edited February 20, 2014 by Wooks

[WafflesToo]

I cannot understand why people can't do it,I did it on my first attempt.

Well good for you. Do you poop rainbows too?

OP- just keep practicing it. 15m is really close but I don't think the magic magnets kick in until 1m or less. Fine controls help a lot for those last few meters and remember, fly the ball, not the camera. If your orientation is close just keep the prograde marker on top of the target marker and you're golden.

[WafflesToo]

? Why? Maybe i misunderstood you?

I regularly use an off center docking port and i do not notice other problems.

So do I, but for someone just getting the hang of the game it might be best to not get too carried away with it right away. One less step to worry about, right?

[-RanZ-]

I was terrible at docking until I figured out how to use chase view and understood how to adjust course to your target using the nav ball, once you figure out that it is easy

[Javster]

Control one craft at a time and point each at each other's docking port

[TimePeriod]

Don't bother reading any of these so called "advice" its rubbish.

The only way you learn to dock is by hand and eye coordination. Simply try - when tiered try some more.

[fastbikkel]

I cannot understand why people can't do it,I did it on my first attempt.

I did it too the first time, but you do not see me bragging about it like that. Everyone is different.

What are you really trying to say?

[vetrox]

A screenshot of the rondevous would also be usefull. Its all well and good getting a 15m rondevous but if your relative velocity to your target is still in the 1km/s then life just got a whole lot more difficult

15 meters is damn close though. I found docking gets super easy when you learn how to use the rcs to do all the work. My early docking attempts were basically me throwing my ship at the pink node on the nav ball, flipping it 180 degrees and killing velocity down to 1m/s or so and hoping that i was lined up correctly. God life got easier when i learnt the docking controls.

[Vanamonde]

Please discuss the subject of the thread, and not each other, okay guys?

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

I'm not sure if I gave this advice in my previous post, but if not I'll say it again:

1. Get within 50m

2. Point both docking ports so that they face each other.

3. Hold 'H' to move forwards

4. You've docked, and with out having to even use RCS, you could use a short burst of thrust instead of RCS.