Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) 0.4.7 - Pipes as fuel lines and even fewer explosions!

[BLUESHADOW125]

for making it compatible do you only need to update the dll file

[Smurfalot]

This is true, and nearly all of my fueling is done through direct docking. But, KAS was a key part of my favorite utility module; take a KAS winch, put a flat connector on the movable end, and then put a small probe core, RCS jets, and a Claw on that end. Voila, a steerable, flexible claw. Not only does it make refueling in space easy (no need to EVA to set up the lines), it's a key component in my asteroid towing vessel as the cable eliminates issues with off-center towing (the rock will just oscillate a bit around the imaginary line connecting the center of mass to the ship, without need for a lot of SAS modules to keep it from torqueing too much). Without a working KAS I can't do that nearly as well, and I'm not going to stick with 32-bit.

That is brilliant! Care to share a craft file with a fellow KAS junkie?

[Smurfalot]

Regarding the 0.24 update: It will be another day or few. However, as others have noted, the 0.23.5 version may work fine in 32-bit KSP only. For this reason, I won't be releasing a recompile or an otherwise half-baked update, but rather a proper compatibility update for 0.24. I cannot guarantee 64-bit compatibility because of a known issue in the base game, but I will be investigating the possibility of a workaround implemented on the KAS side.

For those giving praise: Please remember that KAS was originally written by KospY, who is indeed a talented modder! Also remember that Winn75 and zzz did some excellent part modeling and texturing work for the parts, and remember a.g.'s contributions to the plugin code in the recent updates. My role in KAS is quite limited and I function mostly as a proxy and advisor. (I do write code sometimes, but not enough to deserve some of the comments in this thread.)

I appreciate the time and effort you put into keeping KAS alive and kicking Majiir. I also very much appreciate the work of your predecessors and collaborators in developing KAS into the mod we all know and love. Thank you- All of you.

[koksny]

People who say thing like "it might not get released until .25 is out" usually vastly over-estimate their own understanding of the code and/or vastly under-estimate the creativity of modders. And it breaks my heart.

It's more case of "If it's bug in Unity, abandon all hope until Unity 5", and not underestimating modders. There is really not much anyone except Squad can do if it's the case. All we can hope is for Majiir to get some workaround code, so he can split vessels without using decouple() function. Don't get me wrong, i reall wish to see KAS working in x64, it's just the case - if Squad can't do it, modders probably can't too (And no, dont bring multiplayer, multiplayer wasn't dependant on Unity team fixing their code).

EDIT: Also there is possibility of turning off physisc collision on parts involved with KAS whatsover, but afaik (and i tried forking it myself) best you can do is make kerbal being swinged by force vector, instead of grabbed part.

Edited July 19, 2014 by koksny

[raziel420]

Glad to hear KAS is coming soon. I was worried about the horror stories that were being told, and how it might not get released until .25 is out...

Last I had heard they aren't sure how to fix the issue, but they were pretty sure it had to do with x64 unity on windows, which is pretty specific. I certainly hope they get it fixed soon, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Agathorn]

What "issue" are we talking about here?

[raziel420]

Containers are a good example, if you try to grab one off of your craft, the whole thing just falls apart, everything detaches, not just the item your trying to detach. Now if they figure out whats actually causing that to happen, it would be a relatively quick fix. I don't know crap about code, nor have I even glanced at the code for KAS so I honestly could be talking out of my arse.

My experience has been that the detach system has an issue where not just the selected item detaches, but all KAS parts attached to the ship detach.

Edited July 19, 2014 by raziel420

[koksny]

Containers are a good example, if you try to grab one off of your craft, the whole thing just falls apart, everything detaches, not just the item your trying to detach. Now if they figure out whats actually causing that to happen, it would be a relatively quick fix. I don't know crap about code, nor have I even glanced at the code for KAS so I honestly could be talking out of my arse.

My experience has been that the detach system has an issue where not just the selected item detaches, but all KAS parts attached to the ship detach.

Exactly figured what's causing it to happen:

When you use "Grab" function in KAS, you are actually decoupling one ship into two (What is left, and kerbal + detached part). To do it, KAS uses the same method that's used everywhere in game (like, in decouplers) - part.decouple(). It's part of code (function) wrote by Squad, and out of range of moders (You actualy can't modify it without KSP source code) that's likely to rely on some either function or variabe value that acts different in Unity 64 win player. And the suspect is (most probably) either convex mesh colliding into something or force vector being applied as negative, etc.

So we pretty much know what's the problem, there is just so much you can do about it without looking directly into KSP code.

And to add insult to injury, it seems that the issue sometimes, randomly doesn't appear (as, decouplers work in x64 around 5% time). It's something that really doesn't help while debugging without knowing exact source code of function.

Tl;dr, we're looking at workaround involving not using decouple() function, or hotfix from Squad. This, or Majiir (or other moder) is coding god, and can fix it "somehow". Last option would be best, because it would actually make ProceduralFairings and stock decouplers possible to fix too.

[Spatzimaus]

That is brilliant! Care to share a craft file with a fellow KAS junkie?

My ships use way too many mods for that to work, unfortunately. But it's easy enough to make your own version with stock parts (and KAS, obviously). Here's a screenshot to illustrate the concept, taken just after I'd refueled on the way to an asteroid:

The key is the back (right) end. The hook/winch module is attached via a 2.5m docking port in this case, so that I could dump it if necessary, but I'd recommend making it integral to your ship. (Just make sure it's on the primary axis, not off-center.) The battery is for when it's separated, as are the small solar panels on the 2.5m-1.25m adapter (hard to see in this shot), so you can skip those. Then it's a vertical stack winch, flat connector on the end of the winch's line, 0.625m RCS tank (50 monoprop) with four RCS quads on its sides (very much overkill, I'd recommend two at most), probe core, and finally the Claw. If you make this setup integral to your ship, I'd recommend an action group that toggles the RCS jets on the hook on and off (preferably also toggling the ship's other RCS in the opposite manner) so that maneuvering the claw doesn't rotate the rest of the ship.

The one problem I have with doing this is SAS. If the cable is extended and RCS is on, you can't really use stabilization properly as the two linked pieces will try to do all sorts of strange rotations around the center of mass. This results in the claw whipping around uncontrollably, with the potential to break things like solar panels. So, you can't really use SAS with RCS while the winch cable is extended (at least until it's attached to something heavy), and that makes it a bit harder to manage. While it'd be nice if KAS could fix this, I'd assume it's buried far too deeply in the engine to adjust.

[Boomerang]

Can anyone confirm that the .23.5 version works fine in 32 bit .24? I'm running OSX so 64 bit isn't going to be any sort of problem this update. I'm anxious to rebuild a lot of my favourite crafts but I don't want to jump the gun.

[Olympic1]

Can anyone confirm that the .23.5 version works fine in 32 bit .24? I'm running OSX so 64 bit isn't going to be any sort of problem this update. I'm anxious to rebuild a lot of my favourite crafts but I don't want to jump the gun.

Or you can just wait, but that would be silly.

Or not?

[Smurfalot]

Can anyone confirm that the .23.5 version works fine in 32 bit .24? I'm running OSX so 64 bit isn't going to be any sort of problem this update. I'm anxious to rebuild a lot of my favourite crafts but I don't want to jump the gun.

It works for me, but it still gives an incompatible message on load up. No telling what kind of invisible bugs are happening that will eventually cause problems down the road. Use it at your own risk.

[Entropius]

Or you can just wait, but that would be silly.

Or not?

Pretty much that's what I'm doing. I'm on a Mac, so 64-bit bugs aren't a concern, but I still want to be sure KAS works so a bunch of my moon infrastructure isn't broken. In fact, KAS is only mod I'm waiting on before updating to 0.24.

[Olympic1]

Pretty much that's what I'm doing. I'm on a Mac, so 64-bit bugs aren't a concern, but I still want to be sure KAS works so a bunch of my moon infrastructure isn't broken. In fact, KAS is only mod I'm waiting on before updating to 0.24.

I think there are a lot of people waiting for it. Some mods also use KAS in there parts.

[whaaw]

I think there are a lot of people waiting for it. Some mods also use KAS in there parts.

i cant play without KAS is such a usefull mod i have to play another game until Majir fix it

[Rune]

It works for me, but it still gives an incompatible message on load up. No telling what kind of invisible bugs are happening that will eventually cause problems down the road. Use it at your own risk.

For me (32bit windows), I had to nuke the .dlls temporarily until it gets recompiled at least because of the POV glitch on any craft with KAS or KAS-grabbable parts. That has had some unintended consequences on the ships that were flying with KAS parts on and the stuff joined by pipes (pipes are invisible and of course I can't unlink anymore), but so far my save with 35+ ships is kicking merrily along, minus one ship whose cockpit (a couple meters away form the rest of the ship) makes me doubt it'll be able to come home as planned. But it also sometimes does something with the right click menus that make them not pop up. That last part has me quite confounded.

Rune. I sure hope we can enjoy the full KAS experience soonâ„¢!

Edited July 20, 2014 by Rune

[Jahnri]

Basically down for the count tell KAS updates. Way to many dependencies with this mod to update. Thankfully seems everyone else has there mods mostly updated. So shouldn't be to long of a wait

[BLUESHADOW125]

Basically down for the count tell KAS updates. Way to many dependencies with this mod to update. Thankfully seems everyone else has there mods mostly updated. So shouldn't be to long of a wait

so does this mean its been confirmed for an update???

[nebuchadnezzar]

I hope sarbian's x64 decoupler fix can be utilized to fix KAS for x64.

[PringleMan]

so does this mean its been confirmed for an update???

Half-Life 3 confirmed!

No really though, I was playing around with it and as long as you only use "grab" on winch connectors you are fine. Just with part boxes, utilize the bays and store/release to move them around. And be careful when assembling things.

I hope sarbian's x64 decoupler fix can be utilized to fix KAS for x64.

Sadly that was a kind of separate issue from what is happening in KAS I think

[BLUESHADOW125]

only problem is that i dont want to be limited to 1 action only

[tfm]

I hope KAS is still being developed! I love this mod. It is a must.

[rabidninjawombat]

Half-Life 3 confirmed!

No really though, I was playing around with it and as long as you only use "grab" on winch connectors you are fine. Just with part boxes, utilize the bays and store/release to move them around. And be careful when assembling things.

Sadly that was a kind of separate issue from what is happening in KAS I think

Ive been holding off and installing KAS myself due to issues, but is it only the grab command thats causes issues? If thats the case id probably still install it

[Furious1964]

Any development with the update?

[micha]

I just recompiled KAS myself for 0.24, and it -appears- to be working perfectly fine. (Linux, 64-bit). YMMV

(EDIT: NB: I didn't change any source code apart from the version check.)