[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Maeyanie]

Hello,

tell me how to go from orbit on the space plane.

It depends on your specific vehicle. For a general hint, you can

where he does so, explaining what he's doing in the process, with a medium weight spacecraft. This is with an old version of everything, but the idea is the same. Edited April 1, 2015 by Maeyanie

[Wuwuk]

It depends on your specific vehicle. For a general hint, you can

where he does so, explaining what he's doing in the process, with a medium weight spacecraft. This is with an old version of everything, but the idea is the same.

He does this with FAR and mod parts shuttle,

I do this stock parts shuttles (except engines), medium and light weight, without FAR.

[howkong]

Is it possible to support Remote Tech? There seems to be no blackouts in reentries.

The hot ion covering the ship should affect the signal of the remote tech antennas, maybe reducing its maximum reach, or maybe just blocking it completely.

[Guest Darth Gerbil]

Would it be possible to create an area detection module that could cover the underside of an aircraft with ablative shielding?

[Starwaster]

Is it possible to support Remote Tech? There seems to be no blackouts in reentries.

The hot ion covering the ship should affect the signal of the remote tech antennas, maybe reducing its maximum reach, or maybe just blocking it completely.

I don't know as I'm not familiar with Remote Tech's code base or API.

I'm a bit skeptical of the utility of implementing this though because communications blackouts only affect ship to ground communications. If they're manned it doesn't matter if they can contact the ground or not does it? If it's unmanned, what would the consequences be if the probe can't radio the ground?

And if it's to another planet then the overriding deciding factor would be if there were any intervening celestial bodies. (again, because the plasma sheath doesn't block communications through the top)

Would it be possible to create an area detection module that could cover the underside of an aircraft with ablative shielding?

Possibly but I'm not really sure what's being asked for her. How and when would this be used and why?

[Guest Darth Gerbil]

Possibly but I'm not really sure what's being asked for her. How and when would this be used and why?

A way of applying a heat shield to the entire underside of a aircraft, so that shuttles aren't destroyed on reentry. Basically you could create a module that would look at the dimensions of the vehicle, and procedurally generate a shield to match it's undersides shape. It would be useful for much heavier spaceplanes that can't lose as much speed in the upper atmosphere as their smaller counterparts.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Darth Gerbil

[Starwaster]

A way of applying a heat shield to the entire underside of a aircraft, so that shuttles aren't destroyed on reentry. Basically you could create a module that would look at the dimensions of the vehicle, and procedurally generate a shield to match it's undersides shape. It would be useful for much heavier spaceplanes that can't lose as much speed in the upper atmosphere as their smaller counterparts.

It's not technically impossible but it's not something I'll be doing. And a large ship can be slowed down sufficiently but you have to learn how to fly a reentry that will do that. That means a shallow entry that's going to take at least half the planet's circumference instead of a quarter. (or maybe more than a half)

And if lift is going to cause an overshoot of the runway then you'll want to do shuttle styled S turns to bleed off some of that speed sideways.

Finally, air brakes. B9 has them and there's a set of shuttle styled wings with a tail rudder with built in air brakes. (needs Firespitter). I don't have a link for the shuttle parts but the airbrakes will definitely help slow you down. (in fact they're actually a bit overpowered IMO)

[Maeyanie]

He does this with FAR and mod parts shuttle,

I do this stock parts shuttles (except engines), medium and light weight, without FAR.

Stock parts should work fine, the concept is the same.

Doing this with stock aerodynamics will be a problem, though. I can't help you there, sorry.

A way of applying a heat shield to the entire underside of a aircraft, so that shuttles aren't destroyed on reentry. Basically you could create a module that would look at the dimensions of the vehicle, and procedurally generate a shield to match it's undersides shape. It would be useful for much heavier spaceplanes that can't lose as much speed in the upper atmosphere as their smaller counterparts.

You could probably fake something like this by creating a variant of the B9 procedural wing part with ablative shielding on it (which is just some easy .cfg editing) and put a very thin one underneath, but remember that large areas of ablative shielding will dramatically increase the weight of your plane. There's a reason the real-world Space Shuttle didn't use it.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Maeyanie

[NathanKell]

Did Bac9's pull ever get accepted? That should allow it.

[Starwaster]

Stock parts should work fine, the concept is the same.

Doing this with stock aerodynamics will be a problem, though. I can't help you there, sorry.

Actually, depending on the parts, stock aero could be a definite problem. You know how we usually say that it has too much drag? (to the point that some people like to call it 'soup'?) Well, the Winglet and ModuleAerodynamicLift modules have way too little drag. You know what ALL the Mk2 parts (EVEN the fuselage) use? Winglet and ModuleAerodynamicLift. Seemed like a good idea at the time, except that parts utilizing those modules override the normal KSP drag and implement their own. Which is fine I guess but the drag assigned to them is way too low.

I tried to do a reentry with spaceplane derived from SPP Mk2 parts and the wings burned away leaving me with the cockpit and the passenger module with 3 terrified tourists. And it dipped down to 20km.... and then sailed away back into space having lost only 250 meters of altitude due to drag.

- - - Updated - - -

Did Bac9's pull ever get accepted? That should allow it.

I don't have an actual pull request from him. There was some code samples he posted but I was so busy with the work I was doing on the new model that it fell through the cracks.

Edit: And.... what Bac9 was proposing is a little different from what Darth Gerbil is proposing. He's basically asking for a way to add ablative shielding to parts that don't have it. Which isn't in and of itself a bad thing except that

1. I don't think it's a great idea to add it to large vehicles such as space planes (for the reasons that Maeyanie already cited)
   
2. In the case of the space plane parts, it's a bad move to add shielding to something that already has it because then it's going to drink in twice the amount of heat
   

But thanks for reminding me about Bac9's code samples. I'll revisit those though I wonder how much point there is to it since in the (proximally indeterminate) future I'm thinking a huge portion of DRE is going to be gutted when KSP 1.0 arrives.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Starwaster

[Wuwuk]

Actually, depending on the parts, stock aero could be a definite problem. You know how we usually say that it has too much drag? (to the point that some people like to call it 'soup'?) Well, the Winglet and ModuleAerodynamicLift modules have way too little drag. You know what ALL the Mk2 parts (EVEN the fuselage) use? Winglet and ModuleAerodynamicLift. Seemed like a good idea at the time, except that parts utilizing those modules override the normal KSP drag and implement their own. Which is fine I guess but the drag assigned to them is way too low.

I tried to do a reentry with spaceplane derived from SPP Mk2 parts and the wings burned away leaving me with the cockpit and the passenger module with 3 terrified tourists. And it dipped down to 20km.... and then sailed away back into space having lost only 250 meters of altitude due to drag.

Thank you for your advice,

I will try to use your "Stock Drag Fix".

If all else fails, I will explore

FAR and make space plane for him.

[kcs123]

Switching to FAR from stock aerodynamics could be painfull at first, bacause you will have to learn new construction tehnics.

But once you overcome basic difficulties, you will enjoy it and since KSP 1.0 will be much closer to FAR than it is to current aerodynamic, it will be good building practice once KSP 1.0 is released.

There is nice tutorials for FAR around forums that will help you to overcome difficulties. I can recommand Basic Aircraft Design thread from keptin. There is also Kerbodyne SSTO Division thread with varios craft examples. You should also read FAR wiki. In my own KCS spaceplanes craft repository thread I have tried to cover gaps that is not fully explained in already mentioned links.

@Starwaster, there was discussion in B9 procedural wings thread regarding shielding.

Is it possible to tie shielding to texture used ? B9 PW alows to choose different texture for uper or lower part of wing, so it will be nice feature if that can also determine type of temperature shielding and maximum amount of alowed temperature. It will alow much more customization than just "active" cooling or none at all.

[Wuwuk]

@kcs123, thank you for the links.

They are very useful.

I'll be learning FAR.

[Hodo]

I never needed additional shielding on any of my SSTO Space planes on re-entry. I have found if you come in at a reasonable angle you wont have that big of an issue.

That is an older picture but the approach hasnt changed.

[funk]

Edit: @Funk, Fell asleep before finishing my work on a module manager config for NFP's engine. Still working on that.

- - - Updated - - -

@Funk or anyone else using NFP

Edit your EngineHeatAdjuster.cfg file and add this to the end. That should work but obviously I'm not familar with NFP or its VariablePowerEngine workings so let me know if this doesn't.

(note that this patch only assumes a two element HeatCurve, so if there's an engine with more than two curves, this will fail and I'd have to add more key edits in)

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[VariablePowerEngine]],!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]]:FINAL
{
    oldMaxTemp = #$maxTemp$
    @maxTemp = 1250
    tempMult = 1250
    @tempMult /= #$oldMaxTemp$

    @MODULE[VariablePowerEngine],*
    {
        @HeatCurve,*
        {
            heat0 = #$key,0[1]$
            heat1 = #$key,1[1]$

            heat0 *= #$/tempMult$
            heat1 *= #$/tempMult$

            @key,0 = #$key,0[0]$,$heat0$
            @key,1 = #$key,1[0]$,$heat1$
        }
    }
}

Thx for the patch, but it doesn't work like expected, so you gave me something to think about and I have a new version which works for NFP and PP:

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]|@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]|@MODULE[VariablePowerEngine],!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]]:FINAL
{
    oldMaxTemp = #$maxTemp$
    @maxTemp = 1250
    tempMult = 1250
    @tempMult /= #$oldMaxTemp$

    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*],*
    {
        @heatProduction *= #$/tempMult$
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs],*
    {
        @CONFIG
[*],*
        {
            @heatProduction *= #$/tempMult$
        }

    }
    @MODULE[VariablePowerEngine],*
    {
        @HeatCurve
        {
            heat0 = #$key,0[1, ]$
            heat1 = #$key,1[1, ]$

            @heat0 *= #$/tempMult$
            @heat1 *= #$/tempMult$

            @key,0 = #$key,0[0, ]$ $heat0$
            @key,1 = #$key,1[0, ]$ $heat1$
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ProceduralSRB],*
    {
        @heatPerThrust *= #$/tempMult$
    }
}

I'm not sure, if it's intended, but in the first line of your patch, the has[module[1],module[2]] means has module 1 AND 2, so I wondered why all the other engines with only one module shouldn't have their heatproduction reduced. Further I changed it to OR because NFP and PP also have moduleEngines(FX) in their cfg, so if you have another patch like you suggested, it would take the already changed maxtemp and set it as oldmaxtemp, which means tempMult will be 1.

Some other small spelling changes, to get it work. Nevertheless thank you for pushing me in the right direction.

Edited April 5, 2015 by funk

[LastStarDust]

Hello,

I am sorry to bother you with this question as (I am quite sure) it has been already asked many times, but after several failed attempts to find a proper answer (both on Google and the forum)... here I am. Put it simply, my question is:

Why in KSP 0.90 Deadly Reentry combined with FAR isn't deadly at all?

I mean, whatever speed I am returning almost nothing is exploding. Only some parachutes once in a while. 2000m/s at roughly 25KM doesn't seem to make a scratch on any vessel.

I remember that in KSP 0.25 at the same conditions everything but the cockpit were burning out.

Is it a known issue? Otherwise what can I do to have the old really dealdly reentry back again?

I am running the latest versions of FAR and DRE (with alternative density calculations).

[Starwaster]

@funk, your config is probably breaking the heatCurve outright. There's errors in that. I'll go over it in more detail later.

@LastStarDust, it's only been asked (at quick count) 69,105 times so don't worry about it. First, 2km/s is just not very fast at all. If you want it deadlier you can try increasing heat multiplier or decreasing density multiplier. Be careful. Like I said 2km/s is not very fast and if you make things really hard at those speeds you will find ascent very difficult not to mention Mun or Minmus returns which are over 3 - 3.6 km/s

another cause though is the alternate density setting. Turn that back off; used improperly (and NEVER with alternate heat model) it could make things too cool. I should have thought of that first.

[LastStarDust]

@LastStarDust, it's only been asked (at quick count) 69,105 times so don't worry about it. First, 2km/s is just not very fast at all. If you want it deadlier you can try increasing heat multiplier or decreasing density multiplier. Be careful. Like I said 2km/s is not very fast and if you make things really hard at those speeds you will find ascent very difficult not to mention Mun or Minmus returns which are over 3 - 3.6 km/s

another cause though is the alternate density setting. Turn that back off; used improperly (and NEVER with alternate heat model) it could make things too cool. I should have thought of that first.

Thanks a lot. I will disable alternate density setting. Thanks again.

[KillAshley]

hey man, theres a problem we've noticed with kopernicus planet packs, basically atmosphere temperatures aren't being applied as a gradient and are constant over the entire SOI of the body. This is making people explode in a 50mil orbit of gas giants from overheating. (my pack New Horizons has a gas giant in the home system so it's a major issue for me)

Is there a way to do a quick patch to ignore the ambient temperature of certain planets for the time being until the kopernicus boys find a solution? Or any way you could think of that would help?

EDIT:

Screenshot

Edited April 8, 2015 by KillAshley

[Starwaster]

hey man, theres a problem we've noticed with kopernicus planet packs, basically atmosphere temperatures aren't being applied as a gradient and are constant over the entire SOI of the body. This is making people explode in a 50mil orbit of gas giants from overheating. (my pack New Horizons has a gas giant in the home system so it's a major issue for me)

Is there a way to do a quick patch to ignore the ambient temperature of certain planets for the time being until the kopernicus boys find a solution? Or any way you could think of that would help?

EDIT:

Screenshot

No, nothing I can do on this end.

They must have some really screwy temperature curves in the Kopernicus configs that's doing that.

[KillAshley]

hmmmm i was worried you'd say that, yeah its strange but it seems theres no gradient to the temperature at all, like the atmosphere temperature is applied over the entire SOI of the custom bodies...I'll speak with the Kopernicus boys and see if they can figure it out, thanks for the quick reply bro!

[Wuwuk]

I never needed additional shielding on any of my SSTO Space planes on re-entry. I have found if you come in at a reasonable angle you wont have that big of an issue.

On the B9 parts space plane I reentry without problems,

as in a light space plane (Mk2) from stock parts.

But on the stock parts heavy space plane I reentry with burnt down wings.

All this with FAR and "Normal" settings of the DRE.

[Starwaster]

On the B9 parts space plane I reentry without problems,

as in a light space plane (Mk2) from stock parts.

But on the stock parts heavy space plane I reentry with burnt down wings.

All this with FAR and "Normal" settings of the DRE.

Then you need to modify your reentry as Hodo said. What sort of angle are you coming in at? Have you tried something more shallow? You need to do as much of your deceleration (edit: i.e. aerobraking) as possible in the upper atmosphere.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Starwaster

[chrisl]

I'm having an issue but I'm not sure if the problem is with a mod or with the part. I'm using Realism Overhaul, Realistic Progression Zero, Kerbal 10x and FASA, along with the latest Deadly Reentry Beta. I've created the Saturn V rocket which I've already launched and sent to Mun to do some orbit maneuvers. I then sent the CSM back to Kerbal. So far everything has gone fine and I'm ready to jettison the service module and start re-entry which is where I'm running into problems. As soon as the command module starts to get into the upper atmosphere, the heat shield overheats and explodes, followed a second or two later by the command module. The ablative shield value never drops and it's not like I'm getting very far into the atmosphere before things go bad (explosion happens at abot 110km). I'm using the heat shield that is meant for the Apollo command module. Is there some way to verify that the configuration for the part is setup correctly?

I am hitting the atmosphere at about 10.5km/s which is actually slower than Apollo 11 was going during re-entry, so I'm assuming my speed isn't the problem. I've got periapsis set at 70km before re-entry begins, so I don't think I'm coming in too steep. The heat shield starts heating up at 130km but it's already up to over 600C by 111km and explodes with a recorded heat over around 750C by 109km, about 2 seconds later.

[Hodo]

On the B9 parts space plane I reentry without problems,

as in a light space plane (Mk2) from stock parts.

But on the stock parts heavy space plane I reentry with burnt down wings.

All this with FAR and "Normal" settings of the DRE.

If your re-entry temps are climbing above 1500deg then you are coming in WAY to steep.