[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[FreeThinker]

Your post seemed (to me) like you were accusing DRE of terrorizing players who use both DRE and your mod. That would be quite rude, so I'm assuming that is not the message you intended to send. I'd prefer to believe that you are merely requesting the developer of DRE to work with you to make the two mods compatible. Is that what you are actually trying to say?

Sorry for beeing so rude but your correct it's my intention that some solution is found. I'm just relay frustrated by the fact that I can't seem to make high power engine play nice with DRE. Specifically the part with the Biggest problem is the Vista. To simulate the intense radiation hitting the engine (10GW), I set the engine at 10000 heatProduction and to prevent overheating I set emissiveConstant at a variable high number (4 * mass * radiatorPerformancePercentage) which simulates active cooling. At the same time 10 GW Wasteheat is generated which must radiated into space with KSPI radiators. This used to result in the heat initially rising very fast but stabilize at 90% overheating if enough radiators were present. Now, for reasons I don't understand high emissiveConstants (>40) no longer seem work when DRE installed, making it impossible to prevent overheating and blowing up. Also, DRE forces all parts containing enginesModule an maxTemp which is much lower that original set (with a FINAL statement) which is very intrusive. The only way I could override it was by overriding the value in the engine controller start. Now, are their any ways to make DRE to ignore KSPI-E engines?

Edited June 6, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Schmonzo]

the stock heat shields and deadly reentry shields are in different tabs (they also seem to have different resources). Can I use both or should I just use deadly reentry shields?

[Svm420]

the stock heat shields and deadly reentry shields are in different tabs (they also seem to have different resources). Can I use both or should I just use deadly reentry shields?

Both are valid choices.

[Starwaster]

Sorry for beeing so rude but your correct it's my intention that some solution is found. I'm just relay frustrated by the fact that I can't seem to make high power engine play nice with DRE. Specifically the part with the Biggest problem is the Vista. To simulate the intense radiation hitting the engine (10GW), I set the engine at 10000 heatProduction and to prevent overheating I set emissiveConstant at a variable high number (4 * mass * radiatorPerformancePercentage) which simulates active cooling. At the same time 10 GW Wasteheat is generated which must radiated into space with KSPI radiators. This used to result in the heat initially rising very fast but stabilize at 90% overheating if enough radiators were present. Now, for reasons I don't understand high emissiveConstants (>40) no longer seem work when DRE installed, making it impossible to prevent overheating and blowing up. Also, DRE forces all parts containing enginesModule an maxTemp which is much lower that original set (with a FINAL statement) which is very intrusive. The only way I could override it was by overriding the value in the engine controller start. Now, are their any ways to make DRE to ignore KSPI-E engines?

I will give some consideration to moving the engine heat adjustment config from :FINAL to :FOR[DeadlyReentry]

HOWEVER....

One way or another, a heat adjustment pass gets done on every single part in the game. Currently it is being done to engines in a config file before the KSP and DRE finish loading up because that was the easiest place to deal with overheating issues involving Real Fuels engines. When DRE actually loads in, one of the first things that happens is it looks at maxTemps on all parts and anything that didn't get handled in configs, or is still too high after configs were loaded is going to get cut down to either half of their current maxTemp or ridiculousMaxTemp, whichever is lowest.

It's also conceivable that your problem is not with the adjustment of maxTemps in engines, or that it is only part of the problem. DRE makes changes in other areas including radiationFactor which is increased 10x, a change that I deemed necessary to allow spaceplanes to function in a Deadly Reentry environment.

So that means (in the example given above) that your engine effectively has an emissiveconstant of 400 or higher.

That's not just radiating heat 400x faster (or 400x the heat depending on how you look at it) it's also potentially taking in 400x as much heat (or 400x faster) depending on which way the temperature delta is flowing.

With that in mind, I'd suggest that you not think about overriding parts of DRE. Instead what I would do is find the radiationFactor and cut your emissiveConstant alterations by that much.

If instead you choose to override DRE settings and I determine that specific issues presented to me can be traced back to KSPI alterations then I'll have to defer those support requests back to you. Really I wouldn't have a choice.

- - - Updated - - -

the stock heat shields and deadly reentry shields are in different tabs (they also seem to have different resources). Can I use both or should I just use deadly reentry shields?

I left DRE's shields in the category that they had always resided in.... I might move it one of these days.

DRE's ablative resource and KSP's stock ablator resource are functionally equivalent and the stock heat shield will continue to use the stock resource. Necessary in the event that a player were to uninstall DRE so that they don't have KSP complaining at them that stock parts and craft existent in the world are using unknown resources.

[NathanKell]

leaveTemp is also a thing

[Starwaster]

leaveTemp is also a thing

Ah, I'd forgotten you put that in there.

Still, I think the 400x radiation is an issue here too

[NathanKell]

Oh, obviously. If you break physics, expect physics to break you.

[Starwaster]

Oh, obviously. If you break physics, expect physics to break you.

Yeah that's why they're 'laws' and not 'really good suggestions

[Kussris]

No, they're based on airspeed and atmospheric density modified by aeroFXExponent.

Actually, these three settings control that ....

Thanks for the detailed answer! I will play a bit with the settings ...

[raxo2222]

How to survive Jool reentry?

[andqui]

I'm having an issue with DRE + FAR. Here is my return vessel:

Just a Mk1 command pod, with a universal storage core and bays right below it, with a stock 1.25m heat shield below that. During re-entry, the command pod seems to take the brunt of the heating, and not the heat shield; the ablator disappears very quickly. Initially, I had put the ablator resource to 0 for the pod to save weight, as I head the shield underneath it, but I needed to alter the save file to add it back to be able to re-enter safely, otherwise the command pod (not the rest of the ship) would overheat and explode. The Universal storage bays and the batteries/parts within them don't seem to be heating abnormally, it's just the Mk1 command pod. Does this sound like a bug, or am I misunderstanding how the shielding works?

[Starwaster]

How to survive Jool reentry?

What's the mass of your reentry vehicle?

And what's killing it, heat or G force stress?

Let me see a picture of what you're trying to send there too please.

I'm having an issue with DRE + FAR. Here is my return vessel:

http://i.imgur.com/lqcPqrN.png

Just a Mk1 command pod, with a universal storage core and bays right below it, with a stock 1.25m heat shield below that. During re-entry, the command pod seems to take the brunt of the heating, and not the heat shield; the ablator disappears very quickly. Initially, I had put the ablator resource to 0 for the pod to save weight, as I head the shield underneath it, but I needed to alter the save file to add it back to be able to re-enter safely, otherwise the command pod (not the rest of the ship) would overheat and explode. The Universal storage bays and the batteries/parts within them don't seem to be heating abnormally, it's just the Mk1 command pod. Does this sound like a bug, or am I misunderstanding how the shielding works?

Are you able to maintain 0 angle of attack or close to it? If not, what is the angle? (if it's too great then the pod is going to be exposed)

If you haven't already, do that reentry with thermal debugging on. Press Alt-F12 -> Physics -> Thermal and then check the box next to 'Display Thermal Data ...'. Report back here with the numbers for four fluxes (Cond, Conv, Rad, Int) at the time that your shield begins ablting

[raxo2222]

What's the mass of your reentry vehicle?

And what's killing it, heat or G force stress?

Let me see a picture of what you're trying to send there too please.

Are you able to maintain 0 angle of attack or close to it? If not, what is the angle? (if it's too great then the pod is going to be exposed)

If you haven't already, do that reentry with thermal debugging on. Press Alt-F12 -> Physics -> Thermal and then check the box next to 'Display Thermal Data ...'. Report back here with the numbers for four fluxes (Cond, Conv, Rad, Int) at the time that your shield begins ablting

Heat destroyed it after several seconds. I used procedual heat shield. Maybe it wasn't compatible with your mod.

It weights around 200 tons.

I tested if it can do reentry on retrograde orbit around jool.

I suspect Jools atmosphere should end on 300km mark not 200km.

I tested reentry with much smaller craft and much shallower entry.

Looks like heavier vehicles with higher entry velocities will net Periaris of >190 km.

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Edited June 7, 2015 by raxo2222

[Starwaster]

I don't think Procedural Parts are compatible with DRE at all right now.

As for where Jool's atmosphere ends, that's up to Squad unless you try RSS. (when it's ready that is)

[Gryphon]

How to survive Jool reentry?

You Will Not Land On Jool Today.

OK, I know you actually meant aerobraking.

[Starwaster]

You Will Not Land On Jool Today.

OK, I know you actually meant aerobraking.

All these worlds we give to you.

Except Jool.

Attempt no landings there.

(no really... don't do it.... I'm seriously you guys!)

[jrandom]

I've been testing out the RSS pre-release and it looks like I'm getting Kerbin-level reentries (intense flames/heating at 2000m/s at 90km) instead of realistic Earth reentries. Is there a list of settings I can use for my RSS tests?

[NathanKell]

jrandom: use RO's settings. If you have RO, you're already on those settings.

Be aware that AeroFX, as discussed above, is not quite well configured, so disregard the FX and look only at the actual fluxes.

[PPR]

Just wondering...

Everyone is no doubt aware of the the heatshield bug that came in KSP 1.0 in which reentry heating causes a memory leak, leading to the inevitable crash. Does Deadly Reentry impact this bug? Or vice-versa?

[Starwaster]

Just wondering...

Everyone is no doubt aware of the the heatshield bug that came in KSP 1.0 in which reentry heating causes a memory leak, leading to the inevitable crash. Does Deadly Reentry impact this bug? Or vice-versa?

The only serious memory leak issue I'm aware of was allegedly linked to the thermal gauges and not heatshields specifically.

[jrandom]

If you have RO, you're already on those settings.

Oh! Okay. Yes, I have RO installed. It might be just that the reentry audio/visual effects are too severe too soon -- eg. a cosmetic issue. Or it's more real and I'm just not used to it yet. (It does seem to be more severe than in previous versions.)

Edit: I totally missed what you said about AeroFX, so got it. Just cosmetic.

Edited June 8, 2015 by jrandom

[Tyren]

hello starwaster,

i wondered for a long time now if it is able to define the distance between the re-entry shock cone further away from the craft itself, look at that pic:

The air right in front of the space craft is already in the same state as the craft itself in terms of speed and direction, so it cools sort of down: the shock cone begins in front of that "air pillow" and there it happens to get hot

- - - Updated - - -

in ksp terms one has to keep the actual reentry effects + a 2nd layer way in front of the craft to simulate the drag of the two atmosphere masses...

[panzerwaffe044]

Please, help. Tried to send an interplanetary probe to Moho. My intercept point was near Moho's periapsis. Kerbol's heat added to the engine heat and the engine ("Spark") exploded during deceleration burn (about 2700 m/s). What am I doing wrong?

[*Aqua*]

Lower the throttle before your engine overheats! That means that you have to start your burn earlier and let it burn for a longer time.

There are also some mods which add radiators (for example this one) to cool your vessel.

[jab136]

Bug report: I just reentered from an extremely low orbit (ap was just over 70 km on the initial reentry trajectory) and my heat shield never got over 10c. I took this pic

Edit: also previously, I was having the mystery goo experiments attached to the top of the lower service bay overheat, when the bay was closed, and nothing else on the craft was even remotely hot enough to break anything

Edit 2: also, forgot to mention, the ablative material was set at 50 in the VAB, nothing ablated during reentry

Edited June 10, 2015 by jab136