[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

I've recently been having problems with JDiminishingRTGs overheating and exploding. Unlike stock RTGs, they generate heat internally. A bit of testing showed that a stock+JDiminishingRTG game doesn't overheat them, but add DRE into the mix and they go boom - convective flux and radiative flux are about 1/5 of the values seen without DRE, and while the part heats up the skin temperature stays relatively low. (This seems a bit odd - I can well believe that the skin of the module can get hot and only gradually leak into the inside, but surely if the whole mass of the module is red-hot the skin will itself heat rapidly?)

I have no idea which of these two mods is doing something odd, or if my own understanding is at fault, but it seemed worth mentioning it here.

The part's ModuleAeroReentry config needs to have skinHeatconductivity added to it with a value high enough to conduct heat to the skin. And possibly have the part's emissiveConstant increased to about 0.6 (being added if it doesn't exist)

It probably doesn't have ModuleAeroReentry present so something like this added:

@PART[rtg]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleAeroReentry
        skinHeatConductivity = 1.0 // no higher
    }
}

There won't be another Deadly Reentry update before KSP 1.0.3

And after KSP 1.0.3, this information will be outdated and either the problem will be resolved by changes in stock KSP and Deadly Reentry, or the problem will continue to exist but the cause shifted from Deadly Reentry to stock.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Starwaster

[jrandom]

RSS/RO reentry question: I set up a 51km periapsis coming back from the moon in the Mk1-2 pod and the 4-meter heat shield (regular 4-meter, not the Mk1-2) exploded from overheating somewhere around 70-68km. My question is: did I come in too steep or too shallow?

[Starwaster]

RSS/RO reentry question: I set up a 51km periapsis coming back from the moon in the Mk1-2 pod and the 4-meter heat shield (regular 4-meter, not the Mk1-2) exploded from overheating somewhere around 70-68km. My question is: did I come in too steep or too shallow?

RSS/RO related issues you should ask Nathan about because he made the necessary DRE adjustments for and I haven't tried RSS+RO latest releases yet.

[NathanKell]

jrandom: answering on the RO thread.

[run1235]

with this being the maleficent edition, is there any way to make the re-entry flare to be green? cause that's what i thought was going to happen.

[Starwaster]

with this being the maleficent edition, is there any way to make the re-entry flare to be green? cause that's what i thought was going to happen.

Melificent. The misspelling is deliberate. Melificent was my cat and originally she probably was named for the Sleeping Beauty character but at the vet's office they misspelled her name.

As you are no doubt aware, Maleficent is a made up name derived from the Latin word mal which means bad or evil.

However, when I realized that the new spelling took on a totally different meaning (sweet, honey: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mel#Latin) I decided to keep the new spelling as it better described her personality.

And no, it's not possible to change the reentry color, at least not with this mod. I suppose it could be theoretically possible....

If you click the DRE icon at any KSP scene you will see a picture of her. (it's supposed to be a placeholder for the real menu but most of the original DRE menus are obsolete as most DRE functions can be changed from the standard KSP thermal settings including reentry difficulty)

[damerell]

The part's ModuleAeroReentry config needs to have skinHeatconductivity added to it with a value high enough to conduct heat to the skin. And possibly have the part's emissiveConstant increased to about 0.6 (being added if it doesn't exist).

Thank you.

[jofwu]

So... what does 1.0.3 mean for DRE? Sounds like they snagged a lot of the ideas that set Deadly Reentry apart. Assuming DRE development continues, how will it differ from vanilla KSP?

[Starwaster]

So... what does 1.0.3 mean for DRE? Sounds like they snagged a lot of the ideas that set Deadly Reentry apart. Assuming DRE development continues, how will it differ from vanilla KSP?

Deadly Reentry still has some features that will make it worth keeping around such as excessive G force damage to crew and parts as well as fire damage.

Reentry heating may receive tweaks from Deadly Reentry and will in the near future get a menu to make that easier, but the current reentry heating system is good enough that I've removed that section of code. I might put back in a modified version that gives me better control over main thermal mass and skin thermal mass as the current system binds them together in a way that I feel is restrictive. (in DRE, I could make adjustments to skin separately without it affecting the main part unless I deliberately altered a second variable).

I'm still mulling that bit over though.

[Cronus425]

I'm having a problem while playing on RSS, heat shields seem to be exploding before using all of their ablator. Even coming in from a suborbital hop I can't survive reentry. Any help?

[Sput42]

Starwaster, seeing that the stock game so quickly (and surprisingly) grew more or less the same heating system that you came up with originally for 7.1: were you involved in or consulted for the stock game implementation? Or did Squad basically reinvent the wheel?

[Aelfhe1m]

With the 1.0.3 update I'm now seeing my log being spammed with thousands of entries like:

[EXC 09:22:18.830] MissingFieldException: Field '.Part.externalTemperature' not found.

DeadlyReentry.ModuleAeroReentry+<UpdateSkinThermals>d__1.MoveNext ()

I can't even open KSP_Data\output_log.txt - Notepad++ tells me it's too big (284 Mb)

Don't know if this is DRE's fault or a conflict with another mod (there's quite a few on my current save).

[Starwaster]

Starwaster, seeing that the stock game so quickly (and surprisingly) grew more or less the same heating system that you came up with originally for 7.1: were you involved in or consulted for the stock game implementation? Or did Squad basically reinvent the wheel?

I had some contact but not a whole lot of involvement. Some of DRE is in there but a lot of other stuff that's new . (and deadly)

With the 1.0.3 update I'm now seeing my log being spammed with thousands of entries like:

I can't even open KSP_Data\output_log.txt - Notepad++ tells me it's too big (284 Mb)

Don't know if this is DRE's fault or a conflict with another mod (there's quite a few on my current save).

DRE isn't updated for 1.0.3 yet. It should be reporting an incompatibility error; if it's not, well, that's a bug.

Not surprised if it's throwing errors.

I'll have an update out soon.

[Aelfhe1m]

DRE isn't updated for 1.0.3 yet. It should be reporting an incompatibility error; if it's not, well, that's a bug.

Not surprised if it's throwing errors.

I'll have an update out soon.

I thought that was probably the case. I look forward to seeing DRE updated, it's been an essential mod for me since I discovered it a few months ago. I'll continue using the 1.0.2 version of this save in the meantime and start a new DRE free sandbox game to test out 1.0.3 and see how the modified heat model works in stock.

[ss8913]

I just got bitten by a serious bug in the stock heating system... in a stable orbit, no acceleration.. just doing a SCANsat scan at 100x time compression like I usually do at a 150km circular polar orbit. suddenly my command pod *explodes*. "due to overheating" according to the F3 log. Never seen KSP do *that* before. So a new DRE could likely fix this if it's replacing the stock heating system - I'm certainly willing to try. I've heard reports of other random explosions like this with stock heating as well. Not sure what's going on with Squad, every 1.0.x is more problematic than the last, at least for me (and some other people on the KSP facebook group)...

[steve_v]

Stock has no real re-entry heating -> DRE developed, people very happy -> stock implements similar functionality, it sucks -> demand for DRE returns. Not at all surprised I am, mods win again.

I'll have an update out soon.

This makes my day

[Starwaster]

Stock has no real re-entry heating -> DRE developed, people very happy -> stock implements similar functionality, it sucks -> demand for DRE returns. Not at all surprised I am, mods win again.

This makes my day

The current system isn't too bad.

Press Alt-F12 and and set conductivity factor lower (1-5... no more than 5).

[ss8913]

Starwaster, the main problem I have with the current stock system is the random thermal detonation of parts on my craft DRE never did that. I'm hoping an updated DRE will make that behavior stop. It was introduced sometime between 1.0.0 and 1.0.4 by Squad.

[Svm420]

I miss the much more concise and clear variables we could play with and adjust. Always seems like squad makes variables with strange names that function different than expected. Please Starwaster your our only hope!

[Starwaster]

Starwaster, the main problem I have with the current stock system is the random thermal detonation of parts on my craft DRE never did that. I'm hoping an updated DRE will make that behavior stop. It was introduced sometime between 1.0.0 and 1.0.4 by Squad.

During ascent/reentry, or just sitting there? If it happens when it's idle on the ground, it could be some parts with thermal masses that are too low. (at least, if I raise thermal masses on those parts it stops happening but my understanding is that there is another underlying cause and low thermal masses are only a trigger for that)

If it is, I can work around it

I miss the much more concise and clear variables we could play with and adjust. Always seems like squad makes variables with strange names that function different than expected. Please Starwaster your our only hope!

I'm working on it. I just got done with what I hope is the final pass on the config files. All references to skin variables had to be shifted over to the new stock system and none existent ones removed. Hopefully I'm moving to final testing.

Unfortunately, because DRE is very intertwined with stock thermodynamics now, we're stuck with the variable names.

However, one of my goals is to replace the current placeholder menu depicting my girlfriend cat with an actual menu that can be used to make adjustments.

Still, if you find yourself having a panic attack during reentry, just open the menu and look at the cat and your anxiety should go away.

[Svm420]

During ascent/reentry, or just sitting there? If it happens when it's idle on the ground, it could be some parts with thermal masses that are too low. (at least, if I raise thermal masses on those parts it stops happening but my understanding is that there is another underlying cause and low thermal masses are only a trigger for that)

If it is, I can work around it

I'm working on it. I just got done with what I hope is the final pass on the config files. All references to skin variables had to be shifted over to the new stock system and none existent ones removed. Hopefully I'm moving to final testing.

Unfortunately, because DRE is very intertwined with stock thermodynamics now, we're stuck with the variable names.

However, one of my goals is to replace the current placeholder menu depicting my girlfriend cat with an actual menu that can be used to make adjustments.

Still, if you find yourself having a panic attack during reentry, just open the menu and look at the cat and your anxiety should go away.

Thanks! If you would be able to put a little explanation for some of the skin varible names that would be hugely appreciated or maybe a small guide on good variable to adjust to get general results. I will miss your variable system it was just so straight forward and understandable.

[Starwaster]

Thanks! If you would be able to put a little explanation for some of the skin varible names that would be hugely appreciated or maybe a small guide on good variable to adjust to get general results. I will miss your variable system it was just so straight forward and understandable.

Which ones are giving you trouble? Most of them were cribbed right out of DRE. (to facilitate me moving those variables from the part module to the part)

[Drew Kerman]

Starwaster, the main problem I have with the current stock system is the random thermal detonation of parts on my craft DRE never did that. I'm hoping an updated DRE will make that behavior stop. It was introduced sometime between 1.0.0 and 1.0.4 by Squad.

wait what? I don't recall seeing anything like regarding random thermal detonation in the release notes

Also Starwaster would I be correct in assuming a conductivity value of 1 in the Alt-F12 menu be equal to the type of (what some people would define as insufficient) heating that would normally be generated for Kerbin's size and atmo properties?

[Starwaster]

wait what? I don't recall seeing anything like regarding random thermal detonation in the release notes

Also Starwaster would I be correct in assuming a conductivity value of 1 in the Alt-F12 menu be equal to the type of (what some people would define as insufficient) heating that would normally be generated for Kerbin's size and atmo properties?

Conductivity doesn't reference environmental conditions; it's just a straight up comparison between masses and areas and how much of those areas between parts are actually in direct contact with each other.

As to how close the underlying formulae are to reality, in theory, MAYBE, but there's a certain amount of abstraction that has to happen in all these formulae, no matter how close to realistic the formulae are because at the heart of it all is a game, not a simulation.

The stock conductivity values are high to speed things up for the game. The result of that is that parts wick away too much heat that otherwise would be used to destroy something in reentry. So I tend to turn them down.

But that does mean that the contribution of heat conduction is lessened for gameplay purposes. So the alternative is to increase convection factor, or to go into the difficulty settings and increase the reentry difficulty. The problem with THAT is that it only goes up to 120%

[Starwaster]

Hot enough?