[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[dlrk]

[delete, already asked and answered in this thread]

Edited May 9, 2019 by dlrk

[Challyss]

7.7.2 has been released on CKAN.

Any info ?

Edited May 18, 2019 by Challyss
Ok, some infos on Github

[Atlessa]

I just got this mod.

I like it so far... but...

 

My Spaceplane's landing gears keep exploding during reentry.  And I'm not a fan of clipping them into the body.  Is there a way to maybe add ablator (at a funds and weight cost) to them?

On that note... is there a cost associated with Ablator? If so I didn't notice any.  I might end up writing a patch myself if no one else has done so already?

 

Edit:  So... just adding Ablator resource does nothing... And after some doublechecking it seems that almost ALL my parts have the same heat tolerance, but only my gears go up in flames during reentry. What am I missing?

Edited June 2, 2019 by Atlessa
Adding information.

[Starwaster]

10 hours ago, Atlessa said:

I just got this mod.

I like it so far... but...

 

My Spaceplane's landing gears keep exploding during reentry.  And I'm not a fan of clipping them into the body.  Is there a way to maybe add ablator (at a funds and weight cost) to them?

On that note... is there a cost associated with Ablator? If so I didn't notice any.  I might end up writing a patch myself if no one else has done so already?

 

Edit:  So... just adding Ablator resource does nothing... And after some doublechecking it seems that almost ALL my parts have the same heat tolerance, but only my gears go up in flames during reentry. What am I missing?

Don't know, need to know more. Which gear are exploding on you? 

But if I had to guess then you're probably coming in too steeply for that part. Spaceplanes come in very shallow trying to do as much braking in the upper atmosphere before descending to the lower atmosphere. Either that or the gear you're using are unsupported. 

And no, just adding the resource is not enough. It would need ModuleHeatShield.

[Atlessa]

The first, lightest retractable stock landing gears (it's a career save and I don't have any heavier ones yet). And as I said, from what I can see they should have the exact same heat tolerance as (almost) all my other parts. Particularly the cockpit and fuel tanks they're attached to.  And those other parts are perfectly fine and could actually take quite a bit more heat (the thermal overlay thingy never even shows up), while the gears burn up and explode really early during the descent.

I will upload a craft file when I get home? 

[Starwaster]

23 hours ago, Atlessa said:

The first, lightest retractable stock landing gears (it's a career save and I don't have any heavier ones yet). And as I said, from what I can see they should have the exact same heat tolerance as (almost) all my other parts. Particularly the cockpit and fuel tanks they're attached to.  And those other parts are perfectly fine and could actually take quite a bit more heat (the thermal overlay thingy never even shows up), while the gears burn up and explode really early during the descent.

I will upload a craft file when I get home? 

anything deemed a spaceplane part is configured to have low internal max temp and high (2700) skin max temp, high emissivity (when closed) low skin-internal conductivity.

They're roughly configured to tolerate the kind of reentry the space shuttle had to fly: shallow reentry. Looking at the gear configs; Their skinMaxTemp is 200 lower than other space plane parts and the internal (maxTemp) is set almost twice as high. 

I'll beef up the skin a bit and lower the internal. I'm betting it's the skin that's probably failing for you. 

But again, what kind of reentry are you flying on that plane? It really should be shallow. If you try to bring it in like a capsule then it it's probably going to overheat.

[Atlessa]

2 hours ago, Starwaster said:

anything deemed a spaceplane part is configured to have low internal max temp and high (2700) skin max temp, high emissivity (when closed) low skin-internal conductivity.

They're roughly configured to tolerate the kind of reentry the space shuttle had to fly: shallow reentry. Looking at the gear configs; Their skinMaxTemp is 200 lower than other space plane parts and the internal (maxTemp) is set almost twice as high. 

Seems like we found the cause of my issues...

https://imgur.com/MPshVBd

Looks like either your values aren't applied properly, or some other mod is overwriting them again afterwards.

Now to find the culprit of this oddity... Or write my own MM patch to fixthe gear maxtemp during the FINAL phase?  Hmm...

 

Edit:  So I just checked DeadlyReentry.cfg for the parts' names and found this:

Quote

 

@PART[SmallGearBay]
{
    @maxTemp = 1073.15
 

[snip]

 

 

 

1073 seems significantly lower than 2700.  Or am I looking at the wrong entry?

Edited June 5, 2019 by Atlessa

[Jognt]

16 minutes ago, Atlessa said:

Seems like we found the cause of my issues...

https://imgur.com/MPshVBd

Looks like either your values aren't applied properly, or some other mod is overwriting them again afterwards.

Now to find the culprit of this oddity... Or write my own MM patch to fixthe gear maxtemp during the FINAL phase?  Hmm...

Your Outputlog.txt file should be able to tell you what mods/files edit the landing gear. Do a search for "SmallGearBay" or "gearsmall.cfg" to find any entries for it.

Outputlog is in %appdata% one folder back up, then LocalLow, Squad, Kerbal Space Program.

[Atlessa]

7 minutes ago, Jognt said:

Your Outputlog.txt file should be able to tell you what mods/files edit the landing gear. Do a search for "SmallGearBay" or "gearsmall.cfg" to find any entries for it.

Outputlog is in %appdata% one folder back up, then LocalLow, Squad, Kerbal Space Program.

Thanks, that helped a bunch.

Unfortunately, the other MM patches that apply to gears only add their respective modules. So they shouldn't affect the max. temperature, right?

I'm baffled. Especially since the value I see in flight is completely different from anything I see in the stock config file OR the MM patch

[Starwaster]

@Atlessa maxOperationalTemp is a Deadly Reentry thing only and is different from maxTemp which is the stock system. The stock system is a hard limit on temperature: The part will explode if it exceeds that temperature. The Deadly Reentry  one is the temperature at which the part starts taking damage and is considered a 'soft limit'. If skin takes damage it is locational and will admit reentry heat directly into the interior if it gets bad enough

By default, operational temps are 85% of the max temps. DRE sets SmallGearBay skinMaxTemp to 2700 so skinMaxOperationalTemp should be 2295 (?)  The most likely culprit for the discrepancy  you are seeing is this:

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/blob/master/GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_SuggestedMods/Squad/RO_Squad_Wheel.cfg#L132-L134

Edit: Except that 1500 * 0.85 is 1275 ... hmmmm. Probably need to see your logs and ModuleManager.ConfigCache file to trace this down

Edited June 5, 2019 by Starwaster

[Atlessa]

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=81330368519986450291

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=36144984083456374841

 

If you need any other logs, let me know where to find them.

[Starwaster]

8 minutes ago, Atlessa said:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=81330368519986450291

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=36144984083456374841

 

If you need any other logs, let me know where to find them.

The other file I had asked for was actually ModuleManager.ConfigCache which is in the GameData folder and it shows the final configuration of every part after all patches are applied...

But before that, I think you should completely uninstall DeadlyReentry; delete the folder entirely. And make sure that you have downloaded the right version. Redownload to make sure and reinstall after the old folder is deleted. Install all files

Looking at the logs, I see certain things happening to the landing gear that should not be unless some config files were out of date. The plugin itself says it is the correct version but I can't say that about the config files. The landing gear is going through a temperature rebalancing phase that its DRE configs should have exempted it from.

 

[Atlessa]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

I think you should completely uninstall DeadlyReentry; delete the folder entirely. And make sure that you have downloaded the right version. Redownload to make sure and reinstall after the old folder is deleted. Install all files

Did that. No dice.

Here's the MM cache file:  http://www.filedropper.com/modulemanager

[Starwaster]

10 hours ago, Atlessa said:

Did that. No dice.

Here's the MM cache file:  http://www.filedropper.com/modulemanager

Download just this file and copy it over the existing file in the DeadlyReentry folder

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry.cfg

The problem is that a Module Manager patch method that worked up until KSP 1.6.* stopped working in KSP 1.7.1 

(the specific patch command wasn't really correct for that situation and probably should have failed anyway but was succeeding until now)

[Atlessa]

That worked. Perfectly.  So well, in fact, that I'm thinking of turning up my re-entry heating by a decent amount, but I'm already at the maximum (120%). I went down so agressively that I was certain it would blow SOMETHING up in the process... but it didn't.  Makes me wonder how other players bring their capsules down, considering you specifically told me that Spaceplanes need to go in MUCH shallower than capsules...

What changed?  I snuck a peek at the file, but I can't see any difference.

 

 

PS: So am I reading this right? A LOT of players should be observing this issue, but I was the only one to actually use spaceplanes with DRE? 

 

 

[Starwaster]

6 minutes ago, Atlessa said:

That worked. Perfectly.  So well, in fact, that I'm thinking of turning up my re-entry heating by a decent amount, but I'm already at the maximum (120%). I went down so agressively that I was certain it would blow SOMETHING up in the process... but it didn't.  Makes me wonder how other players bring their capsules down, considering you specifically told me that Spaceplanes need to go in MUCH shallower than capsules...

What changed?  I snuck a peek at the file, but I can't see any difference.

 

 

PS: So am I reading this right? A LOT of players should be observing this issue, but I was the only one to actually use spaceplanes with DRE? 

 

 

Or at least the only one to use them in KSP 1.7.1 - and it's not just space plane parts. It's potentially everything that might have stuck a leaveTemp = True in the body of the main PART itself. That can also affect other mods that might want their parts exempted from being balanced by Deadly Reentry.

What's happening there is that because most parts designed for stock have ridiculously high max temps. We're talking parts that have higher melting points than tungsten. So we have a ridiculousMaxTemp value and if that a part exceeds that value then its maxTemp is cut in half. If it STILL exceeds that value then it is capped at  ridiculousMaxTemp. But, some mods have parts like nuclear reactors where the temperature can get very hot and their parts don't function right or explode when DRE is installed. Realism Overhaul also balances max temps itself and doesn't want  DRE stepping all over them.

So if anyone puts leaveTemp = true in the body of the part config then they get exempted by having a special module added that tells DRE not to try balancing the temps.

So, what did I change exactly?

@leaveTemp = true 

becomes

%leaveTemp = true

The first one says change leaveTemp if it already exists  and don't do anything if it doesn't exist. The @ patches existing fields. % patches them if they are there but inserts them if they are not there. For some reason, @ was functioning the same as % and some change in KSP (not Module Manager) altered that behavior.

[Atlessa]

Sounds reasonable enough. Thanks for answering.

 

Now... how do I push that slider above it's intended 120% maximum?  Stuff's still not hot enough.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Atlessa

[Nightside]

1 hour ago, Atlessa said:

Sounds reasonable enough. Thanks for answering.

 

Now... how do I push that slider above it's intended 120% maximum?  Stuff's still not hot enough.

Use bigger planets.

[Flibble]

4 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Use bigger planets.

Definitely an option. Returning from LEO is about 7.5 km/s rather than ~2 km from LKO. You'll see a lot of heating. I had blazing plasma trails and exploding parts from a suborbital hop with RSS.

[Atlessa]

25 minutes ago, Flibble said:

Definitely an option. 

Not without Kopernicus it's not.  And I wanna break some ground, so I can't really go back to an older version of KSP.

[Starwaster]

@Atlessa I have looked into increasing the 120% limitation and unfortunately the necessary data fields for the GUI controls are private so I can't touch them directly with Deadly Reentry.

Directly.

The GameParameters themselves seem to be public however and I just did a little experiment with with editing the heatscale in the save file and I set it to 1000 (1 is 100% so... I set it to 100,000%)

Jeb died pretty quickly as soon as he started walking. Convective heat was almost 50 kW. Interestingly, what killed him was not hitting the max temp but the fact that he wasn't wearing his helmet.

So the heat scale is apparently only checked by the GUI itself. The rest of the code doesn't seem to care what the heat scale is set to or how it got set. It just dutifully reads it and applies it. 

This is something I can work with. I can create my own difficulty slider in the DRE menu and apply that to the heatscale as long as the player doesn't go into stock game settings and try to adjust the scale there.

If you want to do that as a workaround before something makes it into Deadly Reentry, you have to edit it per save game file: Just edit a save file and look for ReentryHeatScale. Divide the desired percentage by 100 and that's what you want to set ReentryHeatScale to.

Edit: (so 400% would be ReentryHeatScale = 4)

[Starwaster]

Here is a link to beta Deadly Reentry for KSP 1.7 - its menu has a reentry heating slider that overrides the stock slider and allows scales up to 1000%:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/moge45bumutdcwj/DeadlyReentry.dll?dl=1

[Jognt]

I'm curious what the "@Atlessa Approved" slider % is going to be

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, Jognt said:

I'm curious what the "@Atlessa Approved" slider % is going to be

I don't know but I gotta say after trying it out, 1000% will be asking for trouble. I think that will do as the upper limit. I can't even imagine someone wanting to go that high let alone higher  

[Jognt]

4 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

I don't know but I gotta say after trying it out, 1000% will be asking for trouble. I think that will do as the upper limit. I can't even imagine someone wanting to go that high let alone higher  

That depends on whether someone comes up with a graphical pyrotechnics mod.. Can you imagine a Kerbin with a burning atmosphere?