[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[NathanKell]

The direction vector is the direction the shielding points in.

In the VAB, up is +Y, down is -Y, left is -X, right is +X*. Towards you is +Z, away from you is -Z.

*I think -X is left. But I might, ever-so-slightly-possibly, be flipped on that one.

So 0, 1, 1 is "halfway between up and towards you", for example. You can use trig to get the cartesian components if you want to deal with angles...

If the air smacking into you (represented by your surface prograde vector) is not aligned with that direction vector (or less aligned than (some fudge factor) ) then the shield won't do its magic.

[Starwaster]

Got it thanks! Can you elaborate a little more on the direction vector?

Each shield has a direction vector which is compared with its velocity vector as a dot product. The dot product is multiplied by the reflection value and I think is also used with dissipation and loss. So if your direction vector is exactly lined up with your velocity vector then you have 100% of your reflection rating and ablation/dissipation values. If you're hitting it at a 45 degree angle then you're cutting those things by half. That's especially important for space plane type shields which instead of having ablative materials rely in increased reflection ratings. Typically that's 25% for non-ablative and 5% for ablative shields.

BTW, that works ok mostly for ablative shields in Real Solar System, but not for 25% reflection only shields, at least not for heavy planes. I've gone as high as 98% and still had the shuttle burn up.

That's why....

Oh, oops, actually that one says 180% which might seem extreme but I was expecting to get a 45 degree reentry pitch which means half protection which means 98% and it was still burning up. It's still a work in progress when it comes to RSS.

(shuttle tiles btw supposedly reflect over 90% of incoming heat...)

RESOURCE_DEFINITION:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem]
{
    name = HeatCapacity
    density = 0.0
    flowMode = NO_FLOW
    transfer = NONE
    isTweakable = False
}
@PART[super25rudderkso]:BEFORE[DeadlyReentry]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]
{
    @maxTemp = 1500
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleHeatShield
        ablative = HeatCapacity


        direction:NEEDS[!RealSolarSystem] = 0, 0, 0 // omnidirectional light shielding
        direction:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem] = 0, 1, 0 // forward standard shielding (only when playing Real Solar System mod)


        reflective:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem] = 1.8 // 180% of heat is ignored at correct angle (no, seriously. You have NO idea until you've attempted this in RSS with FAR)
        reflective:NEEDS[!RealSolarSystem] = 0.05 // 5% of heat is ignored at correct angle
        //adjustCollider = -0.015        

        loss:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem]
        {
            key = 650 0 0 0 // start ablating at 650 degrees C
            key = 2000 1000 0 0 // peak ablation at 2000 degrees C
            key = 6000 2000 0 0 // max ablation at 6000 degrees C
        }

        dissipation:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem]
        { 
            // dissipation is based on the part's current temperature
            key = 300 0 0 0 // begin dissipating at 300 degrees C
            key = 800 250 0 0 // maximum dissipation at 500 degrees C
        }
    }


    RESOURCE:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem]
    {
        name = HeatCapacity
        amount = 3000
        maxAmount = 3000
    }
    MODULE:NEEDS[RealSolarSystem]
    {
        name = ModuleGenerator
        isAlwaysActive = true
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
           name = HeatCapacity
           rate = 0.2
        }
    }    
}

Edited July 9, 2014 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

Oooh, that's an interesting way to model sinks.

[Starwaster]

Oooh, that's an interesting way to model sinks.

Yeah, I was practically tearing my hair out at the roots trying to get the KSO down intact without burning up.

At one point it occurred to me that there was no way in real life those parts would be reaching those temperatures behind thermal tiles and if they did, they would be dangerously close to failure. (Columbia )

So this was a way to track tile temperatures vs part temperatures. Exact values need to be fine tuned still.

I've been meaning to talk to you actually about maybe integrating that into the plugin itself and only when the shield reaches certain levels does some of it begin to bleed through to the part.

Been to busy to do more than think about it though. (see first link in signature)

Edit: Something else I've been thinking about is optionally using a value curve in conjunction with the direction vector so it wouldn't be so linear. And the heat protection could then extend past 90 degrees to configurable levels. (after all, Apollo's heat shield did provide some coverage to its upper surface)

Edited July 9, 2014 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

Frankly, if it's going to be written into DRE, it's better to not use a 0-density resource, and instead, like, actually track the temperature. I do agree that the shield should be shielding the parts rather than using the stock heat transference code. Also swapping a ShieldingEffectiveness.Evalaute(dot) in, with a simple curve, should be dead easy.

[Starwaster]

Frankly, if it's going to be written into DRE, it's better to not use a 0-density resource, and instead, like, actually track the temperature.

that's exactly what I mean. the resource trick was just the only way of doing it without going into the underlying code.

[Mikare12]

Okay, this is fine mod, but do you can add support for Interstellar?I love interstellar mod .

[Quiana]

Okay, this is fine mod, but do you can add support for Interstellar?I love interstellar mod .

With some MM fiddling you can do Interstellar support. Basically, do some comparisons between the objects in the stock DRE configs, and use MM to write temperature values for the appropriate items in Interstellar. As an example, since I part-scoop from some other mods, here's part of my 'DRE everything' config.

@Part[RLA_s_nerva]

{

@maxTemp = 2000

@MODULE[ModuleEngines]

{

@heatProduction = 300

}

@MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]

{

@heatProduction = 300

}

}

@Part[RLA_s_tank*]

{ @maxTemp = 1450}

In this case, I modeled the small nerva engine after its larger cousin and used the general tank values for RLA tanks on the small size. Now, in theory, while the materials themselves would have the same temperature tolerances, you would likely have a lower overall tolerance as there is less material to absorb/dissipate heat and the overall heat 'resistances' would be smaller in a smaller tank. But without having more advanced heat plugins this is about the best you can do with the stock modules and DRE.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Quiana

[NathanKell]

Quiana, mind if I put that in DRE proper?

[eempc]

I'm wondering why my MechJeb case burns up at 1230 degrees when it is rated at 2900? Is it because I put it on the underside of my space plane? Would putting it on top make it survive?

Maybe this is just a silly thing but I prefer to have my non-aesthetic components such as struts, fuel lines and the mechjeb pod on the underside of my space planes.

[Starwaster]

I'm wondering why my MechJeb case burns up at 1230 degrees when it is rated at 2900? Is it because I put it on the underside of my space plane? Would putting it on top make it survive?

Maybe this is just a silly thing but I prefer to have my non-aesthetic components such as struts, fuel lines and the mechjeb pod on the underside of my space planes.

Deadly Reentry decreases destruction temperatures to reasonable levels when they are unreasonable.

[taniwha]

With DRE, nothing is rated at 2900 degrees. Tungsten melts at 3400 degrees but is insanely dense (20g/cm³). Iron melts at 1538 degrees (7.8g/cm³). MJ's parts will melt at even lower temperatures.

Really, MJ should burn up at 300-500 degrees.

[weissel]

I'm having a problem: Reentry is way too easy in the latest (4.7) Deadly Reentry Continued.

* Plain, fresh install of KSP (Windows 7 64bit, KSP 32bit): v 0.23.5.464.

* Installed ONLY DR. Even using the included ModuleManager 2.1.0.

* No tweaking/playing around/setting values/... with DR.

Do you think this probe should survive a moon return reentry: --- with exactly no heat shield at all?

Well .... Most of it survived! The docking ring blew up, that's all. (The *boom*s of the 'empty stages' could easily be the parallel reentry of the bus.)

I'd argue the probe should have blown up mercilessly even if it had been an LKO reentry, never mind a reentry after orbiting Mün.

(Here's the video proof:.)

[NathanKell]

Kerbin's orbital speed is 2.2km/sec. That means your peak (peak! not the one you get where the atmosphere is dense enough to make a difference) will be ~2000C. Even a Munar reentry is ~2700C. If you do your reentry right, that's not hard at all.

On Earth, you're looking at shockwave temperatures of >8000C. From low orbit. Lunar reentries are ~11,000C.

This is why the OP and the readme have a guide (right at the front!) for customizing difficulty.

[weissel]

Even a Munar reentry is ~2700C. If you do your reentry right, that's not hard at all.

(With the default settings) you can do a 23km reentry in a Mk1-2 3-man-capsule from the edge of Kerbin's SOI without needing any sort of heatshield.

Fine with me, as long as that is the intended behaviour.

(BTW, the RCS quad thrusters don't even have a temperature, is that because Squad decided to make them non-physical objects, like struts?)

[NathanKell]

1. I'm using the settings that DRE had when I started maintaining it. If there's consensus that the shockwave exponent should be raised for stock Kerbol-system play, I'm fine with that (I only play RSS anyway, it's not like I care )

2. Yes, Squad made it physicsless. Physicsless parts don't get heat. I encourage you to use something like stupid_chris's Stock Balance pack to fix that. The only reason it was made physicsless anyway as as a hack to get around the joint issues between very heavy and very light parts (which became an issue in *stock* KSP for the first time with the ARM parts).

[TranquilTempest]

There appears to be a craft exploding bug if you grab a planted flag with a claw equipped rover, then drive away. (excessive g-force)

Probably not worth fixing, but definitely worth replicating.

Is DRE able to tell the difference between a net force(acceleration) and a balanced force(parts in compression or tension)?

[TeeGee]

I feel embarrassed to ask but how do we deploy the inflatable heat shield? Whenever I mount it on my spacecraft, all I see is one giant dome that seems to be a stiff body object. Does it inflate out of the VAB? How do we mount this shield properly so that it inflates when we need it?

[jrandom]

I feel embarrassed to ask but how do we deploy the inflatable heat shield? Whenever I mount it on my spacecraft, all I see is one giant dome that seems to be a stiff body object. Does it inflate out of the VAB? How do we mount this shield properly so that it inflates when we need it?

I believe you can trigger the inflation via a custom action, and also by right-clicking on the part during flight and selecting "Inflate" or "deploy" or whatever they've named it.

[Starwaster]

I feel embarrassed to ask but how do we deploy the inflatable heat shield? Whenever I mount it on my spacecraft, all I see is one giant dome that seems to be a stiff body object. Does it inflate out of the VAB? How do we mount this shield properly so that it inflates when we need it?

I believe you can trigger the inflation via a custom action, and also by right-clicking on the part during flight and selecting "Inflate" or "deploy" or whatever they've named it.

Yes, deploy either via action group or right click. If you had a decoupler under it, decouple first.

The heat shield also stages but that decouples it from the spacecraft! Don't do this until it's done its job or you will be invited to your very own personal barbeque.

[smart013]

Just for info: latest version is noted as incompatible with .24.

[Rakh]

Despite the warning when the game launches that the mod is not compatible, if the warning is ignored, all functionality seems to be working:

http://imgur.com/qnXyTAt

That said, I imagine some changes should be made so that funds for shields aren't fully recovered (perhaps based on the ablative coating remaining?)

Side note: First time ever using this. Despite being properly pointed and the heat shield working, my parachute exploded. Was that supposed to happen?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Rakh

[xXIndestructibleEVAXx]

i really cant wait till dr gets updated

[Agathorn]

Just for info: latest version is noted as incompatible with .24.

No offense to you Smart013, but people need to stop posting this in every mod thread. The game just updated. The game doesn't know what is compatible and what isn't so it just says everything not compiled agaionst v0.24 is incompatible. That doesn't mean it isn't compatible, just that the game thinks it isn't!

[aftokinito]

No offense to you Smart013, but people need to stop posting this in every mod thread. The game just updated. The game doesn't know what is compatible and what isn't so it just says everything not compiled agaionst v0.24 is incompatible. That doesn't mean it isn't compatible, just that the game thinks it isn't!

That's not true, stop spreading misinformation please.

There are some PLUGINS that are working fine with no warnings that were definitelly not compiled against 0.24.