[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Kalista]

The only thing I can see that might affect that is CoMOffset (center of mass offset) which is used in a few DRE heat shields but those haven't changed from 5.2-5.3.*

BTW Nathan, it doesn't look like chutes and other small parts are being shielded by other parts in front of them anymore.

That might be why I lost all of my US stuff on my very first sucessful test ( tho my cute thats hiding behind a clampotron jr was spared while the US stuff is below the DP,cute and Pod.)

[papics]

I can also confirm a chute+pod+shield combo exploding at 35k coming from a 100x100k orbit with an initial periapsis heigh of 25k in 5.3.1, while 3.2 is perfectly fine with these settings...

[Motokid600]

I read back some pages, but couldn't find anything pertaining to my current issue. And apologies if this maybe belongs in RSS/RO, but it seems now that ive updated DRE just now my payloads are not shielded by heat on ascent. FAR reads shielding and no force is applied to the payload. All is well. But once I start to reach 1000m/s at around 35km I notice the heat begins to rise on my fairings. But before the heat indicators get half full it seems as if the probe core explodes just before. And in the right click menu I can see its temperature rise despite being shielded. The core explodes, camera stops dead and I watch the rocket continue on.

Now ive been playing with 5.2 in RSS until now. Have I just been playing with a broken DRE version and my ascents are simply too shallow? Because its the same trajectory ive been following and its been working. But even if that is so why does the payload heat up?

KSP

OUT_PUT

[Czerky]

Taking DRE off makes the craft go shield first entire way down where as with the new DRE ( 5.2 didn't behave this way) has it wanting to go docking port first till below 30km.

Craft File

This is how the testing I did went dropping the ship from 70km @ pitch 60 heading 270

No Dre: craft begins to go retrograde near the 65km mark and except for some bobbing holds that point entire way down building up a slight rotation ( which is by design)

DRE 5.2: Exactly the same as no DRE.

DRE 5.3 w/Fixes: Craft begins to go prograde right around the 62km marker requiring control input and sas to hold retrograde.Just under 30km craft will hold retrograde on its own but will start developing a hard rotation on its own.

All these tests were done with FAR because I refuse to fly with squads default soup atmosphere.

I can confirm this with my Eve lander on DE + FAR. There's some kind of phantom torque on the craft that didn't happen until 5.3. It turns into a chaotic sideways spin further down in the atmosphere. I thought it might be lift, but there are no exposed parts on the craft that would explain the direction it happens in (FAR analysis also shows that the COL is inline with the COM).

I've also noticed that heat shields don't shield other parts and don't ablate before exploding.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Czerky
Typos

[Noio]

I've noticed this too. A Mk1-2 pod behind a Mk1-2 heatshield is actually hotter than the shield.

[Starwaster]

Ok, Kalista & Czerky, by any chance did you open up the Deadly Reentry debug menu before that happened? While the craft was on the screen?

Because alt+D also happens to be the same command for trim +yaw

You can tell that's happening if your inputs are not completely centered. alt+x will cancel all trim. DREC does not do anything to drag or aerodynamics at all.

[Wanderfound]

Now that asteroids hitting your space centre is an actual threat, is there any way for DRE to gradually ablate them on the way in?

[Kalista]

Ok, Kalista & Czerky, by any chance did you open up the Deadly Reentry debug menu before that happened? While the craft was on the screen?

Because alt+D also happens to be the same command for trim +yaw

You can tell that's happening if your inputs are not completely centered. alt+x will cancel all trim. DREC does not do anything to drag or aerodynamics at all.

Negative both tests I did had the debugger off and last time I used trim was before the change to sas ( god did I HATE asas).I'll also do a test with logs and vid on the difference with 5.2 and 5.3.1 will take me about an hour with how slow time warner uploads to youtube.

Edit: After doing the 5.3.1 test you may have been right with me bumping a trim button since it settled correctly so the only persistant issue I'm seeing is that parts are melting off when they should be shielded.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Kalista

[NathanKell]

Changelog:

v5.3.2

*Revert to prior adjustCollider functionality; small parts should be shielded again.

*No longer ignore heating on physics-disabled parts.

Note: Unable to reproduce the tumbling problem with one (and only one) MM 2.4.5 (as shipped with DRE). I did, however, notice it when I had an old (2.2.0) MM lying around. Note that with low density air there is *very* little righting moment to the pods, so you need to manually align first (with SAS on to stop the quivering) and *then* you can turn SAS off.

[Starwaster]

Now that asteroids hitting your space centre is an actual threat, is there any way for DRE to gradually ablate them on the way in?

Isn't it only a threat if you happen to be focused on a craft or Kerbal in the actual world within a few kilometers of KSC? (which, btw whenever I see that IRL I always think Kerbal instead of Kennedy now. Thanks Squad...)

That would have them off-rails and they should be destroyed. (I mean, they'd be coming off rails at full orbital velocity, that would destroy anything, shields or not)

Or if it's a thing now in 0.25 that off-rails asteroids can damage the KSC then there would have to be a way of intercepting that event and stopping it before it does anything bad. Even mods that recover parts, Kerbals and Science still can't stop KSP from registering their destruction. (in the case of Kerbals killed on offrails craft, they just get resurrected and re-reported as recovered)

... so the only persistant issue I'm seeing is that parts are melting off when they should be shielded.

Getting fixed

Edit: Oops, ninja'ed by Nathan!

[Beowolf]

Changelog:

v5.3.2

*Revert to prior adjustCollider functionality; small parts should be shielded again.

*No longer ignore heating on physics-disabled parts.

Nathan, just wanted to let you know I sympathize. I used to write shareware and remember a couple of "minor" updates that gave me the same kind of trouble.

From my perspective, it's going great. Twice in the past 24 hrs I've come here to log a problem, and there was a hot-fix waiting.

Heat shield temp: 604C. 700/1000 ablative remaining

Pod temp: 1200C and rising fast! WTF?

Crew: sizzling like little green sausages on the grill.

[Starwaster]

Nathan, just wanted to let you know I sympathize. I used to write shareware and remember a couple of "minor" updates that gave me the same kind of trouble.

From my perspective, it's going great. Twice in the past 24 hrs I've come here to log a problem, and there was a hot-fix waiting.

Heat shield temp: 604C. 700/1000 ablative remaining

Pod temp: 1200C and rising fast! WTF?

Crew: sizzling like little green sausages on the grill.

Now THERE'S a cheery thought.... Kerbal-kabobs..... Kerbin Fried Kerbals... in the Kolonel's secret recipe with 11 herbs and spices.

[Motokid600]

Changelog:

v5.3.2

small parts should be shielded again.

Thanks so much.

[NathanKell]

Hah, thanks folks!

Sorry it took such a squirrely path.

And to be clear--thank Starwaster too. He found pretty much all the sources for the problems.

[yecode]

no FX on linux x64 KSP, am i the only one or it is a problem with 64bit or openGL?

[Aleksey-Forest]

I not understand how this mod worked

After mod installation i not see reentry FX any more, and can`t explode vessel on any reentry

Make acceleration of rocket down from ~ 45km: http://imgur.com/a/gM1Nr#0 & http://imgur.com/a/gM1Nr#1

Stock Kerbin

Edited October 5, 2014 by Aleksey-Forest
added shot

[Motokid600]

The earlier issue I was having was solved with the hotfix, but now... Well, its just so hard lol. My original ascent paths set my crafts a blaze and whatever does make it through the inferno gets destroyed quickly on the way down. These are suborbital 335km missions I'm conducting in RSS and my pods are getting hammered. Can't make it past 60km before they explode. Could something be wrong here or is it just my piloting?

[Starwaster]

I not understand how this mod worked

After mod installation i not see reentry FX any more, and can`t explode vessel on any reentry

Make acceleration of rocket down from ~ 45km: http://imgur.com/a/gM1Nr#0 & http://imgur.com/a/gM1Nr#1

Stock Kerbin

Make sure you have the very latest; we had multiple updates tonight to solve problems with the update a few days ago.

Also.... you're not going to make that rocket explode from 45 km up. That's not a reentry. That's Felix Baumgartner going out for a stroll.

The earlier issue I was having was solved with the hotfix, but now... Well, its just so hard lol. My original ascent paths set my crafts a blaze and whatever does make it through the inferno gets destroyed quickly on the way down. These are suborbital 335km missions I'm conducting in RSS and my pods are getting hammered. Can't make it past 60km before they explode. Could something be wrong here or is it just my piloting?

Look at your Density Exponent... is it still at 0.5? Maybe that's a little too much for you. Try increasing it back up towards its original value (0.85) Or... maybe you're right about your piloting? How fast are you going at 60km? Or to go a little bit further back, what is your TWR at launch? A good TWR would be 1.25 (ASL) Then you should be able to go almost all the way up at full throttle.

[Gaugeforever]

Hey guys, I just reinstalled this mod and I've used it in the past quite a lot. Do the heat shields that are built into the pods burn up a lot faster now?

I just had an 80km by 3km orbit around kerbin and the shield was gone before I was done slowing down. I only survived because it wasn't very long. Now that orbit puts you on a very shallow trajectory which should be a joke for any heat shield. Is something up? I guess I should mention that I came down with one of the basic boosters attached to the pod. But it burnt up fairly quickly and blew up, but I'm not sure why that would matter.

Thanks, Gauge.

[Starwaster]

Hey guys, I just reinstalled this mod and I've used it in the past quite a lot. Do the heat shields that are built into the pods burn up a lot faster now?

I just had an 80km by 3km orbit around kerbin and the shield was gone before I was done slowing down. I only survived because it wasn't very long. Now that orbit puts you on a very shallow trajectory which should be a joke for any heat shield. Is something up? I guess I should mention that I came down with one of the basic boosters attached to the pod. But it burnt up fairly quickly and blew up, but I'm not sure why that would matter.

Thanks, Gauge.

densityExponent value is lowered from its 5.2 values. That's probably why. If you open up the debug menu (alt+d+r) you can change it. (lower numbers mean more heat. higher numbers mean less)

And IRL, I'd wouldn't expect a rocket engine to survive reentry. They only withstand the temperatures they do during launch due to regenerative cooling.

[Aleksey-Forest]

Make sure you have the very latest; we had multiple updates tonight to solve problems with the update a few days ago.

Also.... you're not going to make that rocket explode from 45 km up. That's not a reentry. That's Felix Baumgartner going out for a stroll.

Offcourse not reentry. It was fast simple test.

After update problem solved http://imgur.com/a/gM1Nr#2 Thanks

[John FX]

Well done on the fast response to the issues guys. I haven`t had a chance to test 5.3 (recompile) properly yet and there are two new versions!

Downloading 5.3.2 now.

[Athlonic]

Just did a re-entry from my space station (250km) with a MK1-2 Pod (with its shield) aiming at 30km Pe : Kaboom !

Quickloaded and then circularized @ 150km orbit aiming @ 30km Pe again : and it just passed, all ablative gone temp peak at around 1300C° !

Loving the changes, now re-entry are dangerous again, excellent

I remember, back in the days, with the first "Re-entry Heat" mod we had to aim for a re-entry angle as close to 15° in order to not burn up.

My scenario above gave me something like 5° angle, so I guess it is way to low, isn't it ?

Does a direct from Mun re-entry (Apollo 13 style) still possible with 5.3.2 ?

Is 15° still the aim to be on the sweet spot between heat & G-force ?

Thanks again for your great work, I definitely love to fear each re-entry again

Edit: I forgot the best part : seeing my previous stage's parts burning/exploding in the distance ^^

Edited October 5, 2014 by Athlonic

[ThorBeorn]

Well it's nice to see the constant flow of updates recently. Good job devs. But, is the new ultra deadly heating really supposed to be this brutal?

I made a test an hour ago. My two part craft with 1800 degrees maxtemp exploded at 95 km going 7800m/s. I've never seen that happen before above 70 km at those "low" speeds.

Edit: I should mention I've also experienced a lot higher temps during ascents now. "Deadly" is fun, but it's a bit to much atm imho. But hey if it's realistic as it is I'm not gonna complain.

Edited October 5, 2014 by ThorBeorn

[jpkerman]

@Athlonic, please sir, how do you determine the re-entry angle?

While I do not want a risk free re-entry, having to be a one Kerbal space program begs for a little lee way. IRL there would be a mission control and many highly educated Kerbals to advise the ship.

@ anyone who can tell, Could a red, yellow and green light be added to the context menu to advise us if re-entry angle is predicted to exceed ablative value of heat shield?