[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[ferram4]

So... I started building a space station:

The tank is full and was sent up separately. The launch vehicle was like a Delta IV Heavy with fuel crossflow and a ton of SRBs attached. Very exciting.

Yeah, this is difficult in the most awesome and painful way possible.

[Reddragon]

I'd advice getting the F-1 engine mod. Paired with stretchy tanks, it makes rockets awesome.

There's still the bug with connection points and clamps or something with the mod. Rockets that heavy collapse immidiately. F1 engine works well at least. Anyway does anybody remember about the additional Saturn style textures for stretchy tanks? I remember someone made it but I can't find it.

ferram4

The 2nd picture is perfect.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Reddragon

[asmi]

I'd advice getting the F-1 engine mod. Paired with stretchy tanks, it makes rockets awesome.

I'd recommend getting Stretchy Tanks, since without it your LVs will contain insane amount of parts.

[Lucchese]

There's still the bug with connection points and clamps or something with the mod. Rockets that heavy collapse immidiately. F1 engine works well at least. Anyway does anybody remember about the additional Saturn style textures for stretchy tanks? I remember someone made it but I can't find it.

Ive had this using only stock parts, after installing FAR.

Also it left me with the camera below the surface and the navball showing a speed of 99999999999 (more or less, it went outside the box so many).

Also I could see stationary stuff glitching trough so I know I was actually not moving at all.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Lucchese

[ZeroTheAstronaut]

So... I started building a space station:

-imgsnip-

The tank is full and was sent up separately. The launch vehicle was like a Delta IV Heavy with fuel crossflow and a ton of SRBs attached. Very exciting.

-imgsnip-

Yeah, this is difficult in the most awesome and painful way possible.

Uh, just found this mod, looks interesting, but what's with the atmosphere? Is that a result of the mod, or if I had an equivalent orbit in unmodded KSP would I get effects like that? They look sweet but I've never seen the atmosphere look like that from up above...

[ferram4]

The atmosphere is a combination of the stock KSP atmospheric effects scaled up to a realistic size planet (which makes the effect slightly more subtle with respect to the size of the planet) and a high resolution texture replacement for Kerbin, powered by Universe Replacer; I forget the texture I'm using, but it also includes cloud pictures.

Really, the thing to take away from the pictures is, "Wow, Kerbin looks big."

[NathanKell]

Anyway does anybody remember about the additional Saturn style textures for stretchy tanks? I remember someone made it but I can't find it.

Ohai. Check sig. I have the same style for Procedural Fairings too. Both will be updated Real Soon Now .

ferram, nice! I'll have to try that too. Delta-IVH sounds good, but I want to make the original SLS, the Space Launching System. (And it's only 7.62m diameter, core stage!)

In case anyone's wondering, that's why the high-end KWs are hydrolox in MFS, so you can do stuff like that.

[Exposure]

So I was going say how I finally managed to get an external tank configuration that didn't result in unwanted spinning:

but couldn't figure out how to make a stack configuration that had the required delta-v needed for orbit and I wanted to see if people on here had figured it out...

And then I realized I completely forgotten to turn on realistic engine masses.

Whoops.

Hopefully I'll be able to come back soon with reports of success, now that I removed an unintentional limiter. <.<

[asmi]

In case anyone's wondering, that's why the high-end KWs are hydrolox in MFS, so you can do stuff like that.

Which is just wrong - do I have to remind you what kind of fuel the most powerful engines use? Using hydrolox for first stages is extremely stupid idea in RL since they are waaay too expensive, usually have TWR like crap and so require additional boosters. In RL Delta 4 costs over twice the price of Atlas-V while having inferior performance.

Edited October 26, 2013 by asmi

[NathanKell]

SLS didn't light the H2 core until SRB burnout, I believe, so it's really more like parallel staging with the hydrolox as an upper stage.

And this was way before closed-cycle kerolox...I agree now I'd go kerolox lower all the way. IIRC we went the LH2+strapons route because we didn't have closed-cycle kerolox, didn't even think it was possible. Go Russians!

Edited October 26, 2013 by NathanKell

[Kimaera026]

if it helps, I know why VERY heavy rockets collapse upon loading on launchpad. Nothing to do with this mod. I was building a realistically 0.65 rescaled Saturn V on stock KSP scale and i encountered this problem. Rocket total mass was about 1200-1400t and launchclamps could just not hold on to it on loading the launchpad. They will collapse, the rocket would fall and break itself. I had to turn on "unbreakable joints" from the cheaty debug menu ("ALT+F12") everytime, to prevent this. And even just to keep the rocket from dancing the lambada, I had to design special reaction wheels built into the rocket itself that had 1000 torque, and it will still wobble, but at least it will somewhat point up during first stage ascent. Second stage on is rock solid.

The only problem i have with this mod which is bugging me now is the way objects on the ground behave when focusing back to them. After some time, when focussing back to them, not only they tend to disintegrate (unless i turn on both unbreakable joints and no crash damage for a few seconds) but they're sometimes also in a different position from where I left them. Noticed already 5 times that a rocket on the launchpad, when reverting back to launch after an unsuccessful one, it will reload several metres from the launchpad. Effect seem to be time-related. Maybe to do with planet-rotation? I dunno.

[asmi]

SLS didn't light the H2 core until SRB burnout, I believe, so it's really more like parallel staging with the hydrolox as an upper stage.

And this was way before closed-cycle kerolox...I agree now I'd go kerolox lower all the way. IIRC we went the LH2+strapons route because we didn't have closed-cycle kerolox, didn't even think it was possible. Go Russians!

I thought you was talking about SLS a.k.a. The Senate Launch System, that is in process of wasting taxpayers money being built now. They light up sustainer on the ground.

Atlas-V is ideal combination - KeroLOx first stage, HyrdoLOx second stage.

[Visari]

- Kerbin/Mün textures are lowres (even if using Universe Replacer with 8k mod or similar).

- Kerbin textures present artifacts, especially around lakes (even does this in stock ksp, but far worse now).

- original Mün 3d terrain and mapview terrain are textures that can only be viewed at certain angles, they can disappear, you can fly under them. actual terrain underneath (seems about 20-30km below original terrain on average) can be landed on, but is fairly flat.

- Buildings in Space Center cannot be easily clicked on, in addition to starting camera being mislocated.

- Objects landed on Kerbin can be destroyed by G forces or impact once focused, in one case leaving behind 2 parachutes in the air that were moving at ~450 surface speed, 0 orbit speed, with mach effects and all, but actually sitting still on the ground.

- Some part parts of combinations of parts can get excessively wobbly when forces are acted upon them.

- This mod is stìll too awesome.

to add/update:

- Kerbin seems to have similar issues as the Mün; it's flat

- Orbital lines disappear if Ap is close to body (during launch, for instance), requires zoom out and back in to reappear (is fixed when you can see the line through the body).

- I think the two problems above, combined with the Mün's mapview vs actual 3d terrain, are intertwined.

- planes on the runway do not get recognized when launching new planes from the runway, aswhere launchpad does ask you to get into or remove current vehicle occupying the pad.

^this got me thinking, since often when first launching a vehicle, I had no problems with rapid disassembly on pad, while if I restarted a flight or built a new one, chances it went boom due to launchclamps and similar were increased. maybe, just maaayybe, invisible launchclamps that didn't get removed correctly or something? probably not, but who knows.

fixed:

- KSC is no longer located above water.

Also, I'm really excited about this project, and all the other things you've added for us to make things more awesome.

Is there any way a person unfamiliar with coding can help out? playtesting, looking for or recreating specific bugs, staying in more direct contact?

I'd love to help!

Edited October 26, 2013 by Visari

[p3asant]

How do you people make rockets not spin backwards to prograde?

With far and these bottom-heavy rockets, this seems to happen all the time.

Any tips?

My maximum bottom diameter is 11m with 5 F1 engines ala saturn and all rockets like these go literally bottom-up.

[NathanKell]

I thought you was talking about SLS a.k.a. The Senate Launch System, that is in process of wasting taxpayers money being built now. They light up sustainer on the ground.

Atlas-V is ideal combination - KeroLOx first stage, HyrdoLOx second stage.

Yeah, that's why I said the original SLS, called it Space Launching System, and gave a link. No way do I want today's SLS. :}

p3asant: Fins. You want rockets to be top heavy, with the Center of Pressure (aka KSP's CoL) as far back from it as possible.

Make sure you're using FAR, too. Make sure you balance width and height--the Saturn V was 110m high, a height:width ratio of approx 11.

[AndreyATGB]

How do you people make rockets not spin backwards to prograde?

With far and these bottom-heavy rockets, this seems to happen all the time.

Any tips?

My maximum bottom diameter is 11m with 5 F1 engines ala saturn and all rockets like these go literally bottom-up.

You're gonna need fins. At that size, you should use wing pieces to forge them on the bottom of the rocket. It'll fly like an arrow, also remember to begin your gravity turn very early, once it gets speed it'll be very hard to change trajectory and you'll most likely spin out.

[NathanKell]

Oh right. Yeah. Start at somewhere between 200m for >1.8TWR, to 1.5km for 1.2TWR

[MedievalNerd]

You're gonna need fins. At that size, you should use wing pieces to forge them on the bottom of the rocket. It'll fly like an arrow, also remember to begin your gravity turn very early, once it gets speed it'll be very hard to change trajectory and you'll most likely spin out.

How early in terms of altitude?

[AndreyATGB]

Oh right. Yeah. Start at somewhere between 200m for >1.8TWR, to 1.5km for 1.2TWR

On the subject of launches, I know there isn't a fixed terminal velocity with FAR, but what would you say is generally a good speed to be under for the first 20-30km? I'm guessing I shouldn't be getting re-entry effects that's for sure.

[p3asant]

You're gonna need fins. At that size, you should use wing pieces to forge them on the bottom of the rocket. It'll fly like an arrow, also remember to begin your gravity turn very early, once it gets speed it'll be very hard to change trajectory and you'll most likely spin out.

Do fins work out better at the bottom or at the top?

How early in terms of altitude?

Irl i think they start really at about 5km and i think for example shuttle turn immediadly a little after launch.

I try to make first adjustments at little over mach 1 or at about 6km. Seems to work (somewhat ).

[AndreyATGB]

Do fins work out better at the bottom or at the top?

Irl i think they start really at about 5km and i think for example shuttle turn immediadly a little after launch.

I try to make first adjustments at little over mach 1 or at about 6km. Seems to work (somewhat ).

For fins, I use small ones on the top (the ones that magically rotate when used) and two wing connectors with a delta wing thing for the bottom. It's important that your CoL is low, you want it to fly like an arrow.

About gravity turn, theoretically, a slight nudge right after launch is all you need. Gravity should slowly turn the rocket until it's finally horizontal at apoapsis. Basically an ideal gravity turn should get to orbit without further action or even circularizing. AFAIK that's never been done and it probably doesn't work in KSP.

[Deejay2000]

I still love this mod, adds a lot of extra challenge and realism. I have a problem though. I cannot see the Mun unless I'm almost inside of it's sphere of influence, so I can't see it from Kerbin (or anywhere close to Kerbin). Regardless, it's a great mod.

[Reddragon]

I tried to launch Ares 1 from American pack and it was awesome. I tweaked it's ISP of course but now it works well. It's also very good that we can start gravity turn as early as in real life.

NathanKell

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't realised that the texture pack was in your sig all the time(I feel dumb now).

[AndreyATGB]

I still love this mod, adds a lot of extra challenge and realism. I have a problem though. I cannot see the Mun unless I'm almost inside of it's sphere of influence, so I can't see it from Kerbin (or anywhere close to Kerbin). Regardless, it's a great mod.

It's visible, set it as target and face it with your spacecraft. You can also zoom in a lot with cockpit view. It's pretty small though, the stock Mun in KSP is huge compared to our own.

[Exposure]

Success!

(Due to prior testings putting Jeb and Bill in the hospital, Bob had to fulfill the role of co-pilot of yet another untested design variation. He was not happy about it.)

(I am amazed the stack decided to cooperate and not experience sudden failure when I decided to try doing rollover while at full thrust)

(Note: the MJ numbers aren't entirely right since it seems to be assuming that the SSMEs will run out of fuel before the LRBs do, and thus assumes that the added weight of the LRBs will be in a factor for that part of the flight.)

Insanity and masochistic personal challenges win again!

Now, to figure out how to get them down safely...especially since I didn't edit the brakes group to prevent flipping issues....and I designed the orbiter to be aerodynamically flyable when the fuel tank is empty...

Edited October 27, 2013 by Exposure