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[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

NathanKell

By NathanKell
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ZaPPPa

ZaPPPa

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The biomes seem a little screwy with the latest update. Flying out of Vandenberg I get the south pole biome to pop up a couple of km east of the launch site. Is there something that I need to reset on my install?

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ClLaw

ClLaw

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The biomes seem a little screwy with the latest update. Flying out of Vandenberg I get the south pole biome to pop up a couple of km east of the launch site. Is there something that I need to reset on my install?

Same for me - flying out of Cape Canaveral I get the North Pole biome flying over the Atlantic and at points over Africa

EDIT - I turned on the 'Biomes visible in map' mode in the ALT-F4 menu and the biome map appears in the right place but MechJeb and ScienceAlert say the biomes are different to what they should be. Even doing the experiments says the biomes are different to what they should be. A bit confusing :/

Edited by ClLaw
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KerbMav

KerbMav

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A question came up in my head, and somehow I felt this was a good place to ask it.

So, in RSS but also in any Size-Kerbin-Up mod everything is bigger by some factor or another and to get anywhere - at least when only using stock parts and no procedural parts mod - one would need a hell lot more tanks and stuff.

But whatabout just using ModuleManager to resize every part and amount of fuel by the same factor as the planet has been enlarged? Would that work out?

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Kerbas_ad_astra

Kerbas_ad_astra

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A question came up in my head, and somehow I felt this was a good place to ask it.

So, in RSS but also in any Size-Kerbin-Up mod everything is bigger by some factor or another and to get anywhere - at least when only using stock parts and no procedural parts mod - one would need a hell lot more tanks and stuff.

But whatabout just using ModuleManager to resize every part and amount of fuel by the same factor as the planet has been enlarged? Would that work out?

It's not really size that matters -- recall that the rocket equation works by a ratio of masses. (It's true that having more large parts, like SpaceY or Behemoth, would help reduce part count, but they're not strictly necessary.) Ultimately, stockalike fuel tanks are "only" 89% fuel, while real fuel tanks can get up to 97% fuel by mass (or, from another perspective, the dry masses of KSP fuel tanks are about 4x too much). Similarly, engines are about 4x too heavy for the thrust that they produce. This really hurts the mass ratio in the rocket equation, so you need lots more stages to get enough delta-V to get the job done. Some rules of thumb: a rocket on Earth has to be about 25-35 times heavier than its payload (to LEO). With KSP, that jumps to 50-100x.

Without going to the lengths of Realism Overhaul (i.e. sticking with Module Manager patches), there are a couple of options for getting more realistic rocket performance.

The Realism Overhaul repo has a patch called ROMini. It makes parts bigger (since most rockets need to come in bigger sizes than 3.75 m), and improves fuel mass fractions and TWRs. However, some mods (RoverDude's USI stuff and DMagic's SCANSat and Orbital Science mods come to mind) don't play nice with the resizing method that ROMini uses -- spontaneous shrinkage on load, and the like. (It's a stock bug, nothing ROMini can do about it.)

There's also my SMURFF patch. It doesn't change the sizes of parts; it just reduces masses of fuel tanks (and engines, in the next update). Works with most anything (though Cryogenic Engines is a little tricky, and Stock Fuel Switch support is coming in the next update).

(There's also Realism Overhaul and Simple Realism, but those both require per-part configurations -- most of the popular rocket- and spaceplane-part mods have configs, but anything else is out of luck.)

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ZaPPPa

ZaPPPa

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Same for me - flying out of Cape Canaveral I get the North Pole biome flying over the Atlantic and at points over Africa

EDIT - I turned on the 'Biomes visible in map' mode in the ALT-F4 menu and the biome map appears in the right place but MechJeb and ScienceAlert say the biomes are different to what they should be. Even doing the experiments says the biomes are different to what they should be. A bit confusing :/

I manually updated Kopernicus to the latest version, but no change. Then I replaced RSSKopernicus.cfg in RSS 10.3 with the file from RSS 10.2 and everything went back to normal. Not sure if this will screw up the rest of the solar system, but I am currently only on Kerbol/Earth, so everything seems ok there and I can at least continue the campaign

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ClLaw

ClLaw

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I manually updated Kopernicus to the latest version, but no change. Then I replaced RSSKopernicus.cfg in RSS 10.3 with the file from RSS 10.2 and everything went back to normal. Not sure if this will screw up the rest of the solar system, but I am currently only on Kerbol/Earth, so everything seems ok there and I can at least continue the campaign

Cheers bud! I've moved the files around but I'll have to let you know tomorrow if it's the same fix for me

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Olympic1

Olympic1

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RSS updated to v10.3.1

  • Un-revert reversion of Earth biomes.
  • Slightly re-increase launch site comm range, to about that of a Comm16.

This update fixes the biomes of Earth. I checked the biomes and they are now the same as in v10.2.

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KerbMav

KerbMav

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It's not really size that matters -- recall that the rocket equation works by a ratio of masses.

Without going to the lengths of Realism Overhaul (i.e. sticking with Module Manager patches), there are a couple of options for getting more realistic rocket performance.

The Realism Overhaul repo has a patch called ROMini. It makes parts bigger (since most rockets need to come in bigger sizes than 3.75 m), and improves fuel mass fractions and TWRs.

There's also my SMURFF patch. It doesn't change the sizes of parts; it just reduces masses of fuel tanks (and engines, in the next update).

Larger planet, higher atmosphere, higher orbital velocity -> more dV/fuel needed - somehow size would matter too, no?

If we blow up the planet by a factor of ten, then why not just blow up our party too?

But as long as noone finds a way to enlarge kerbals as well, the crew pods will look ... strange ... ?

I was basically looking for an easy way out. :wink:

My wish would not exactly be for everything be more realistic, but for launching to orbit take a bit longer.

Maybe I should try a less then ten-times larger Kerbin (3.2x/6.4x) and ROMini - with exceptions for the mods you mentioned.

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Kerbas_ad_astra

Kerbas_ad_astra

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Larger planet, higher atmosphere, higher orbital velocity -> more dV/fuel needed - somehow size would matter too, no?

If we blow up the planet by a factor of ten, then why not just blow up our party too?

But as long as noone finds a way to enlarge kerbals as well, the crew pods will look ... strange ... ?

I was basically looking for an easy way out. :wink:

My wish would not exactly be for everything be more realistic, but for launching to orbit take a bit longer.

Maybe I should try a less then ten-times larger Kerbin (3.2x/6.4x) and ROMini - with exceptions for the mods you mentioned.

It's true that the larger planets do have larger delta-V requirements, but the rocket equation is: deltaV = -Isp * g * ln(mass_final / mass_initial)

In other words, it's independent of the actual size of the rocket -- it depends on what percentage of the rocket is fuel: mass_final / mass_initial = (mass_initial - mass_fuel) / mass_initial = 1 - (mass_fuel / mass_initial) = 1 - fuel_ratio.

(Or, from another perspective, once you have a planet, which sets the delta-V requirement, and a rocket engine, which sets Isp, then you know what percentage of your rocket has to be fuel: fuel_ratio = 1 - e^(-deltaV/Isp*g).)

Stock parts just have poor mass ratios, so it doesn't matter if you're trying to put 2 grams into orbit or 2 tons, and it doesn't matter if Kerbals were two inches tall or two meters tall -- the payload ratio of a rocket (i.e. what percentage of its mass a rocket can deliver to its destination) made from stockalike parts will be worse than the payload ratio of a rocket made from realistic parts. For a planet where deltaV to orbit is less than 3.4 km/s, this is okay; for a planet which requires 9.4 km/s to get to orbit, it's a lot less fun.

(Am I totally confused about what you're asking for?)

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chrisl

chrisl

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Just out of curiosity, did the targetBody values change in 10.3 and/or 10.3.1? I had some contracts that were sending me to Mars, Phobos and Deimos. After upgrading to 10.3.1 suddenly those contracts are sending me to Saturn, Ganymede and Neptune.

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Olympic1

Olympic1

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Just out of curiosity, did the targetBody values change in 10.3 and/or 10.3.1? I had some contracts that were sending me to Mars, Phobos and Deimos. After upgrading to 10.3.1 suddenly those contracts are sending me to Saturn, Ganymede and Neptune.

No it only changes to Earth's biomes and some RT fixes

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KerbMav

KerbMav

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(Am I totally confused about what you're asking for?)

Yeah, me too ... :D

Well, a rocket build in stock KSP wont get to orbit in RSS even if the engines tanks weight less, no?

It would need more fuel - more mass to through behind itself - and to carry more fuel the tanks would have to be bigger - or we need more of them, like I see in lots of RSS videos that do not use procedural fuel tanks.

And to avoid having to use more fuel tanks, glueing together stacks and bundles of orange tanks, I thought if it would help to just increase the size - and of course mass and fuel capacity - of every part by some factor similar to the factor by which the planet was enlarged.

(Would the textures even still work though ... ?)

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Laie

Laie

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Well, a rocket build in stock KSP wont get to orbit in RSS even if the engines tanks weight less, no?

A Rocket that can make orbit in stock KSP will be woefully inadequate in RSS, yes.

It would need more fuel - more mass to through behind itself - and to carry more fuel the tanks would have to be bigger - or we need more of them, like I see in lots of RSS videos that do not use procedural fuel tanks.

(reluctantly) yes...

I thought if it would help to just increase the size - and of course mass and fuel capacity - of every part by some factor similar to the factor by which the planet was enlarged.

This would barely help you. The problem with stock tanks is their bad wet:dry ratio -- too lazy to look it up, but it's on the order of 8-10%, right? That is, like 8-10% of your rocket is dry mass right there, before you even attach the first engine. The stock engines are quite heavy, too.

In order to get the necessary delta-V out of stock parts (or parts with stock-like stats) you will need a huge rocket of ten or fifteen stages. That's because stock parts are frightfully inefficient. Having bigger parts will make it easier to build such a big rocket, but it will still need to be insanely big, and flare out (ridiculously!) towards the bottom. The whole assembly will look like a Maya temple or even a dung heap.

If you want to get to space with only three or four stages, like real-life rockets do, and if you want your launcher to somehow resemble a rocket in it's overall shape, you will need more efficient parts. That is, better performance at the same weight, or much less weight at the same performance.

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chrisl

chrisl

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No it only changes to Earth's biomes and some RT fixes

Very odd. When I upgrade to 10.3.1 (from 10.2) all the tartgets for most all of my active contracts change. Active contracts that specified the targetBody by name were fine but every active contract with a number for targetBody had the target change. As soon as I switched back to 10.2, the targets for all my active contracts went back to correct targets. I was able to figure out what the old and new targetBody numbers were so I was able to upgrade to 10.3.1. Just had to manually edit 16 contracts but strange that they changed if that wasn't supposed to be been altered between 10.2 and current.

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Olympic1

Olympic1

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Very odd. When I upgrade to 10.3.1 (from 10.2) all the tartgets for most all of my active contracts change. Active contracts that specified the targetBody by name were fine but every active contract with a number for targetBody had the target change. As soon as I switched back to 10.2, the targets for all my active contracts went back to correct targets. I was able to figure out what the old and new targetBody numbers were so I was able to upgrade to 10.3.1. Just had to manually edit 16 contracts but strange that they changed if that wasn't supposed to be been altered between 10.2 and current.

The only change for RSS v10.3, planet related, is that it uses Kopernicus 0.4. And Kopernicus 0.4 changed it FGI (numbers of the planets) generation.

That causes some changes in contracts, this also happens for players that had ships around some bodies in v10.2.

Edited by Olympic1
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chrisl

chrisl

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The only change for RSS v10.3, planet related, is that it uses Kopernicus 0.4. And Kopernicus 0.4 changed it FGI (numbers of the planets) generation.

That causes some changes in contracts, this also happens for players that had ships around some bodies in v10.2.

Well, that's where the issue was then. At least I was able to correct the contracts manually.

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Wingnutt

Wingnutt

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Im having a rather odd issue.

(Windows 10 install)

Ive had RSS installed a while and have not had any crashing issues at all to speak of.

Well I finally got enough science (career mode) to get beyond orbit. And now Im running into a problem.

Any time I get into orbit of another planet or the moon, the game frequently, every 5 minutes or less, freezes.

It doesn't crash, there is no crash log it just stops and I have to force close it.

Has happened with a probe near mercury, and now with a capsule near the moon, Jeb is stuck in some sort of orbital purgatory.

Everything has been stable on to this point, no idea whats going on :( any ideas?

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Starwaster

Starwaster

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Im having a rather odd issue.

(Windows 10 install)

Ive had RSS installed a while and have not had any crashing issues at all to speak of.

Well I finally got enough science (career mode) to get beyond orbit. And now Im running into a problem.

Any time I get into orbit of another planet or the moon, the game frequently, every 5 minutes or less, freezes.

It doesn't crash, there is no crash log it just stops and I have to force close it.

Has happened with a probe near mercury, and now with a capsule near the moon, Jeb is stuck in some sort of orbital purgatory.

Everything has been stable on to this point, no idea whats going on :( any ideas?

Need to see your log file. Either output_log.txt or KSP.log (the latter if mac or Linux)

(yes, I understand it didn't crash. Those files do exist and will help troubleshoot)

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Wingnutt

Wingnutt

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Need to see your log file. Either output_log.txt or KSP.log (the latter if mac or Linux)

(yes, I understand it didn't crash. Those files do exist and will help troubleshoot)

The output_log file is so huge if I try to copy/paste it here it crashes the browser.. trying

Here ya go, let me know if ya cant get the file

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/42crky1af13ox0v/AADipZzRl04hYbVLm-sWCcbCa?dl=0

And thank you for the help!

Edited by Wingnutt
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Starwaster

Starwaster

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The output_log file is so huge if I try to copy/paste it here it crashes the browser.. trying

Here ya go, let me know if ya cant get the file

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/42crky1af13ox0v/AADipZzRl04hYbVLm-sWCcbCa?dl=0

And thank you for the help!

Okay... it actually did crash, or at least it was trying to. When it froze, it was probably in the process of unloading the program. There's no mention as to cause.

I do also see a lot of errors from FAR and MechJeb, but I'm having a hard time believing that either of them is responsible for this. (check for dev versions though; I know MJ has had several updates recently)

Like I said though, I don't think those are the culprits. I'd guess memory issues even though the log doesn't say so.

Try downloading http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-1-0-Release-5-0-April-28-2015-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM! and installing that.

Also, if you're using one of the high resolution packs for RSS then try downgrading to a lower res pack

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prollejazz

prollejazz

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any plan? the 64 bit is comming! I am still hungry for even-higher-resolutions

This mod will turn the Kerbol system into the (Real) Solar System.

It is highly recommended to play using the Realism Overhaul suite.

Also, check out the RSS Wiki, especially the FAQ!.

RSS DOES NOT INCLUDE LAUNCH SITE SWITCHING ITSELF.

Launch site switching (KSCSwitcher) is a mod by regex which prior to v10 was included in RSS's dll.

Flyby finder for RSS by PLAD -- check it out, it's great!

Alternate size solar systems (since people expect to find the list here)

Note that they are all independent mods and do not depend on RSS.

Small Scale Solarsystem (1/10th, i.e. Kerbin-scale, real solar system)

KScale2 (2x Kerbin)

Kerbin 365 (3.2x planets, 6.4x orbital distances)

64K (6.4x Kerbin)

10x Kerbol system

README:

This mod will convert the Kerbol System into the (Real) Solar System.

Thanks to asmi for kicking me into to doing this and offering so much help along the way; to ferram for aeronautics and orbital help (and FAR, which is essential), and for countless time spent helping others get the most from this mod (and me the most from my modding); to ZRM for many ideas and info; to yargnit and MedievalNerd for playtesting extraordinaire; to everyone else who offered suggestions, code, help, cool screenshots...

Supreme thanks to all who helped make RSS possible! regex for code, and dimonnomid and SpacedInvader for incredible art for RSS, and pingopete for his work on RSS - EVE interoperability and atmosphere work for RSS. RSS would not look or perform the way it does (or have gotten released!) without their amazing contributions. Thanks to stratochief and grayduster and Thomas P. for wonderful help in converting to Kopernicus and adding the new bodies--with their help RSS has entered a new era!

License: CC-BY-NC-SA

Includes code by Majiir (CompatibilityChecker, licensed as per source).

Includes artwork by dimonnomid and SpacedInvader and Dr. Walther in addition to NathanKell.

Includes biomes by Felger.

Some planetary imagery is derived from work by Steve Albers and NASA / Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and some from the Celestia Motherlode (itself in the main sourced from JPL). Used by permission of the licenses for non-commercial release.

Also included:

Module Manager (by sarbian, swamp_ig, and ialdabaoth). See thread for details, license, and source.

Kopernicus (by teknoman, bryce, Thomas P., and NathanKell). See thread for details, license, and source.

A configuration for Custom Asteriods by Starstrider42.

INSTALLATION:

1. Delete any prior RSS install

2. Extract zip to KSP/GameData. You should have one dll (Module Manager) in the root of GameData, and two folders: Kopernicus and RealSolarSystem. However, you are NOT DONE YET.

TEXTURE INSTALLATION

Now, you must select a texture resolution. Download a premade pack (8192, 4096, or 2048) and then, if desired, selectively replace with different-resolution texutres. Note that 8192 is dangerous: it will not work at all on Mac OSX, and you may easily run out of memory on Windows. It's really only safe for Linux, although if you run Windows KSP in OpenGL mode it might work.

You can get the textures from: the texture repository.

Grab one of the resolution packs, then (optionally) get replacements from the repo itself).

NOTE: the path is NOT the same as the old (RSS v8 and below) path, and the textures are different. Clean out your old textures and install fresh.

FINAL NOTE: You really should play with the recommended mods. See the Realism Overhaul thread for details.

======================

Changelog

v10.3.1 Hotfix

  • Un-revert reversion of Earth biomes.
  • Slightly re-increase launch site comm range, to about that of a Comm16.

v10.3 the "Thanks Everybody!" update

  • RSS itself now contains groundstation definitions for RemoteTech, with the full networks appearing when RealismOverhaul is installed (via NEEDS--the files are here). Thanks Peppie, regex!
  • Patch AntennaRange antenna ranges, if that's installed. Thanks Kerbas-ad-astra!
  • Update CustomAsteroids config. Thanks Ascraeus1!
  • Various compatability patches thanks to Sigma88.
  • Fix some typos in body descriptions, biomes. Thanks Trollception et al!
  • Fix Mars scaled space fades. Thanks Raidernick!
  • Fix science altitude thresholds. Thanks Laie!
  • Update to Kopernicus 0.4

License CC-BY-NC-SA

Download Plugin (by clicking here I certify I have read, and will follow, the installation instructions above)

See TEXTURES above for the other downloads

Github

If you like my work, and want to send something my way, I'm now accepting donations.

https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donate_SM.gif

SUPPORT

If you have an issue with the mod (crash, planets aren't rescaled, etc.) please follow the steps in this post. If you do not, I will ask you to do so before providing support. Gaemplay questions, however, are obviously not affected; this is for "your mod broked!!!".

Screenshots:

The Earth

http://i.imgur.com/lpwdTqQl.jpg

The Real KSC

http://i.imgur.com/7b2YPdHl.jpg

Suborbital trajectory

http://i.imgur.com/KvGtKttl.jpg

Earth and the other orbits (X-Y plane is the equator; notice how tilted we are from the ecliptic)

http://i.imgur.com/Au4I75bl.jpg

Ferram launches RISAT-1 (India)

http://imgur.com/a/fxlFn

metaphor's Cassini-Huygens mission (to Saturn and Titan):

http://imgur.com/a/Mkqla

widmanstatten goes to Mars and back with Apollo-derived hardware

http://imgur.com/a/A2fIj

WindShields recreates Mercury-Redstone with stock and procedural parts

http://imgur.com/a/ik7X1

The New Planets

http://i.imgur.com/yMZOeqGl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xpnDWIyl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zko7Uhll.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sdySPbLl.jpg

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Nerd1000

Nerd1000

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It seems that in my install Deimos is bugged. The collision model doesn't correspond to the visual surface. My attempt at landing on it resulted in phasing through the ground and subsequently exploding even though my velocity was 2.5 m/s.

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