[1.3] Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.3.3 7/24/17

[smunisto]

I was just going to write that all of my stuff seems to be sort of indestructible too.

But reproduction steps?

Build a lander, let it fall from about 2 km?

I had a lander with a 2.5m lower stage still attached to it land on Minmus. About 1km up I decoupled the stage and watched it drop below me. This happened at around 250 m/s at the moment of decoupling. Yet it just bounced bounced on the ground and rolled downhill without even losing a part.

Same thing - Kerbin, coming in for landing with the same lander, at about 2km I decouple the lower part of the lander - engine, fuel tank, batteries, solar panels, speed is about 400 m/s - the thing falls down and bounces in the water.

Kerbin again, this time with an aircraft - trying to land on the island runway, didn't remember that it is on a slope - I hit the slope before the runway at about 170m/s(not with the landing gear, mind you), nothing breaks, my plane bounces up in the air, makes a vertical 360 while I regain control, hits the runway this time, bounces once more and settles on the runway.

I remember in one of the old versions we had the same issue and you fixed it by tweaking some of the values, you even explained that the more rigid the connections - the more indestructible parts become.

[ferram4]

I attempted building a lander and following your steps but I was unable to reproduce the issue. Every single time the lander simply exploded on contact with the ground at ~190 m/s, regardless of the angle or whether landing legs were deployed or not, all being dropped from an altitude above 2.5km. There must be a step missing somewhere, since the landers are most definitely not indestructible in my tests.

[Rabada]

I posted this in the KW thread, but I believe that my issue actually lies with KJR. For the life of me, I cannot get the ST-25 and ST-37 side mounted tanks from KW rocketry to stick to a central tank no matter what I try. I've tried all sorts of different ways to strut them, I've tried all sorts of different radial decouplers, I've tried using stack seperators on top of fuel tanks beneath my main stage in place of launch clamps, I've even tried changing the KJR config with <float name="breakTorquePerMOI">400000</float> which you suggested a couple pages back. Everything else seems to work just fine, I only seem to have issues with these two parts. They will fall off immedately after my rocket loads sometimes, or sometimes one of them will fall off a 10-15 seconds after launch. I am using KJRv2.1 along with a ton of other mods like DRE, FAR, TAC, Interstellar, and so on.

[ferram4]

Fewer struts, better placement of launch clamps, use the lowest profile, widest surface decouplers you can use. It sounds more like you've overconstrained the part rather than the part failing itself. Make sure that something else on the rocket isn't shifting and causing a sudden application of force to one of the boosters.

[Justin Kerbice]

@ferram4: regarding indestructible things, I have a similar case which should be easy to reproduce (it happen all the time for me): make a 2 stages rocket with the 1st stage equipped with any kind of parachutes (a lander, a rover, or any supply like fuel tank), launch it somewhere, on land (a quite flat spot, mountains slope break things), I think going in orbit for a while and have a reentry/atmo braking may help for this issue, keep your 2 stages together until you reach 1000m above ground (true altitude) or even less, then separate the two stage.

The lower should drop more or less fast with its engine pointing down and... when your 1st stage hit the ground safely nearby, you may see your lower stage in one piece ! Sometime I witness kind of engine stuck in the dirt (I imagine that), stage pointing up.

Not sure but I think it's occur with the two last releases at least.

I don't use any role-play style/realistic mods, nor FAR.

An example here (we can call it 'art moderne' ):

[Rabada]

Fewer struts, better placement of launch clamps, use the lowest profile, widest surface decouplers you can use. It sounds more like you've overconstrained the part rather than the part failing itself. Make sure that something else on the rocket isn't shifting and causing a sudden application of force to one of the boosters.

I am aware of all of these, um.. I'll see if I can make a craft file with this issue with just stock and KW parts.

[ferram4]

What you're describing doesn't sound like something that KJR causes, it sounds more like what happens when a craft has its physics stopped by the game because it gets too far away from the vessel. And if it depends on the ground where you land, then that certainly isn't the issue everyone seems to be complaining about, since you're carefully selecting a landing location to prevent destruction. And I couldn't reproduce it either, every stage just exploded on impact.

[Eltin]

What values do i need to change to make docking port - docking port connections stronger? Thank you, great mod

[ferram4]

There's nothing you can change to affect that without making other connections stronger as well. Docking port connections are intentionally weaker because, well, they're docking ports, not welded / bolted joints.

If you insist on beefing everything up, you might want to look at the linear and angular drive parameters. Increasing those will do what you want or will summon the Kraken.

[mentat001]

These are the steps I took.

Using MechJeb 2.1.1.0-194 (not build 195, sorry).

1. Use MechJeb landing guidance to de-orbit the vehicle.

2. Allow MechJeb to auto warp to edge of the atmosphere.

3. Once warp returns to 1x disable MechJeb landing guidance.

4. Warp 4x in the atmosphere until between 5000m and 1000m from sea level.

5. Allow the craft to crash.

6. Boing!

[marach]

I was just going to write that all of my stuff seems to be sort of indestructible too.

But reproduction steps?

Build a lander, let it fall from about 2 km?

I had a lander with a 2.5m lower stage still attached to it land on Minmus. About 1km up I decoupled the stage and watched it drop below me. This happened at around 250 m/s at the moment of decoupling. Yet it just bounced bounced on the ground and rolled downhill without even losing a part.

Same thing - Kerbin, coming in for landing with the same lander, at about 2km I decouple the lower part of the lander - engine, fuel tank, batteries, solar panels, speed is about 400 m/s - the thing falls down and bounces in the water.

Kerbin again, this time with an aircraft - trying to land on the island runway, didn't remember that it is on a slope - I hit the slope before the runway at about 170m/s(not with the landing gear, mind you), nothing breaks, my plane bounces up in the air, makes a vertical 360 while I regain control, hits the runway this time, bounces once more and settles on the runway.

I remember in one of the old versions we had the same issue and you fixed it by tweaking some of the values, you even explained that the more rigid the connections - the more indestructible parts become.

This actually happens in stock KSP occasionally aswell I've bounced a few landers at upto 600m/s in the past (and it's a perfect bounce as they were travelling at 600 straight up after)

[ferram4]

@mentat001: Nope, splat + explosion on my end. Try reinstalling KJR and see if that fixes it.

There has to be something else going on. Anyone else making this bug report, I want you to strip out every other mod that you're using, reproduce the issue with only KJR installed, and then follow the same exact steps and fail to reproduce the issue without KJR. Every test that I've done has resulted in no bouncing, only destruction of the vehicle (at speeds at and below those reported for indestructo-bouncing) on impact, exactly in contradiction to all these reports. This means that either another mod is interfering with KJR to cause the bug (in which case I can come up with a fix), another mod alone is the source of the bug (in which case there's nothing I can do), or the reproduction steps are missing some crucial detail.

An ideal bug report would include a craft file (using only stock parts) along with a video recording of the entire flight from launch until bounce, so that everything that's done is documented so that I can make sure not to miss anything. For completeness, please also include your system specs and game settings (all of them from the general and graphics tabs) so that I can make sure that this isn't caused by the way physics is behaving on some hardware / settings.

I'm sorry this is so frustrating. Thanks for putting up with it so far.

[mentat001]

@mentat001: Nope, splat + explosion on my end. Try reinstalling KJR and see if that fixes it.

There has to be something else going on. Anyone else making this bug report, I want you to strip out every other mod that you're using, reproduce the issue with only KJR installed, and then follow the same exact steps and fail to reproduce the issue without KJR. Every test that I've done has resulted in no bouncing, only destruction of the vehicle (at speeds at and below those reported for indestructo-bouncing) on impact, exactly in contradiction to all these reports. This means that either another mod is interfering with KJR to cause the bug (in which case I can come up with a fix), another mod alone is the source of the bug (in which case there's nothing I can do), or the reproduction steps are missing some crucial detail.

An ideal bug report would include a craft file (using only stock parts) along with a video recording of the entire flight from launch until bounce, so that everything that's done is documented so that I can make sure not to miss anything. For completeness, please also include your system specs and game settings (all of them from the general and graphics tabs) so that I can make sure that this isn't caused by the way physics is behaving on some hardware / settings.

I'm sorry this is so frustrating. Thanks for putting up with it so far.

Don't worry. I appreciate all your efforts. This mod is the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to large spacecraft. Keep up the good work!

[smunisto]

No craft file, because craft is extremely simple and the launcher that got the little probe there has KW Rocketry parts.

But the thing doing the impact itself is completely stock - mini decoupler, probe body(the slim one), 2 of the smallest tanks, 1 micro engine.

And to be sure - I tried impacting with the engine down - still bounces the same way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcA31UHdmEE&feature=youtu.be

System specs:

Gigabyte 890FXA-UD5 rev.2.1 |

Phenom II x4 955 @4000MHz 16x250, 1.475v |

Palit GTX 670 + EK Waterblocks Fullcover |

2x4Gb Kingston HyperX @1666 9-9-9-24|

Corsair TX650V2 |

WD SV35 3TB |

Asus Xonar Essence STX

Game settings:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t348acnlfhvtmtt/Screenshot%202014-04-01%2020.19.14.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c7mkg21uldg8on2/Screenshot%202014-04-01%2020.19.21.png

[ferram4]

Okay, I think I might know what's going wrong here; it's being pulled in and out of timewarp and KJR isn't turning off the physics load strengthening properly. I'll make sure it does that when I get things together for the next release.

[PolecatEZ]

As you're probably aware, very broken with the latest official release of the game. My rockets simply fall apart on the launch pad with this installed.

With the new way they did their own joint reinforcement, will this do more/different things in the future?

[biohazard15]

As you're probably aware, very broken with the latest official release of the game. My rockets simply fall apart on the launch pad with this installed.

With the new way they did their own joint reinforcement, will this do more/different things in the future?

I've got the same problem.

Please update to 23.5 ASAP.

[ayana]

I'm not going to complain, I expected breakage. Oh no, it was just utterly hilarious to see every joint fall apart at once.

[PolecatEZ]

Theoretically Squad solved the issue that this mod was designed to fix, we'll see if it needs MOAR! joint support.

[smunisto]

If you mean what I think you mean - then yes, you are right, I tried the same as on my video, just left it without timewarp from 70-80 km altitude. It crashed properly.

[AndreyATGB]

I'm going to assume this won't be needed anymore, I'll need play testing first. Since ferram kind of cooperated with Squad on their own fix, I doubt this is going to be developed anymore. Maybe a compatibility update and that's it.

[ferram4]

The version 2.2 update is out, with compatibility for KSP 0.23.5. The inertia tensor fix has been removed, and most of the original stuff (while it has been set up to work) is currently disabled in the default config because most of it isn't needed anymore. I suspect that this plugin will end up returning to its original purpose: making RSS playable, and probably of little use to stock KSP.

I also added some stuff that I think should fix the indestructo-bounce bug, if it's happening where I think it's happening.

[biohazard15]

The version 2.2 update is out, with compatibility for KSP 0.23.5. The inertia tensor fix has been removed, and most of the original stuff (while it has been set up to work) is currently disabled in the default config because most of it isn't needed anymore. I suspect that this plugin will end up returning to its original purpose: making RSS playable, and probably of little use to stock KSP.

I also added some stuff that I think should fix the indestructo-bounce bug, if it's happening where I think it's happening.

Okay... but can we edit this config back in case of something?

[ferram4]

Yes. That's why it's a config file rather than something hardcoded.

[biohazard15]

Yes. That's why it's a config file rather than something hardcoded.

Good, because my rockets can't fly now, as I've just discovered.

Do I need to edit it manually, or I can just use cfg from 2.1?

Oh, and that inertia fix - it's in config too or is it hardcoded?

Edited April 1, 2014 by biohazard15