[1.3] Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.3.3 7/24/17

[chrisl]

I'm using Universal Storage but haven't yet noticed an issue getting stuck on the launch pad. However, with 3.1 I am having the issue with ships spontaneously separating into their individual parts and flying away at axtreme speed.

All I did was install the newest version of KJR, then load into Kerbal, load up my save, go into the tracking station and select one of the probes I've sent to Duna. Soon as KJR kicks in, the flies apart with the probe core spining at incredible speed. Soon as I remove KJR I can load up the ship without issue.

EDIT: Tried it with the dev build of the dll but get the same results.

Edited January 14, 2015 by chrisl

[Cerebrate]

@Cerebrate: Need reproduction steps.

I'll get you some as soon as I _find_ some consistent reproduction steps. At the moment, all I have is "sometimes going back to existing craft from Space Center makes them explode with great force as soon as physics kicks in, and sometimes it doesn't".

...sorry, I know that's not a lot of help by itself, but please be assured I'm workin' on finding some.

-c

[ferram4]

I can't reproduce it, on either tiny probes or large vessels, for both of your reports. I sent a probe out to Duna specifically to test, and it was perfectly fine, nothing wrong.

[helaeon]

On dev version from git grabbed about 10 minutes ago:

4k batteries attached to a node attached through a couple of nodes to a thing that is surface attached (b52 adapter) on surface still a problem. I have 3 batteries stacked on top of each other. If I use the big stack batteries from the Near Future mod, doesn't happen. If I use the 1K battery attached the same way as the 4K, does the same thing as the 4K. If I use the small 200ec battery attached instead it acts like the 4k. It appears to be something about the stock stack attach batteries. Attached to the main stack it behaves normally. Game is kind of acting like it's hanging the ship is hanging from the batteries like if I had realchutes attached to them (I don't) and had them deployed.

One Mk2 crew cabin in the Mk4 cargo bay, attached to a docking node, attached to a cubic octagonal strut, surface attached to the drone core at the back of the cargo bay, works normally. So appears that one may be fixed. If I do two like when the bug first surfaced also works normally.

Edited January 14, 2015 by helaeon

[Mystique]

@Mystique: I cannot reproduce. I need full reproduction steps, of absolutely everything that you did from that session until you caused the bug, as well as a full mod list. That occurring indicates that somehow the vessel was destroyed before KJR's physics easing could finish working, which could be KJR alone or it could be other mods interfering. I have no idea.

I managed to get off this situation by switching control point to undocked smaller vessel first, this way I was in control of it after undocking and bug didn't occur. I don't think it'll be possible to actually reproduce, but I'll make another similar docking soon and we'll see if anything changes.

So, how it all started:

1. Put massive (up to 300 ton, but part count isn't sky-high - I used almost all huge parts, so even framerate doesn't suffer) station in orbit containing Extraplanetary Launchpad orbital dock part and EL's huge tanks for rocket parts. There is also Davon supply mod hub, but it never caused any problems before.

2. Station has docked in one of the ports a orbital tug, small enough thing.

3. Launched crew transfer vessel (almost all stock from mk2 parts) and docked it to clampotron on opposite site from that tug. All operations were done carefully, no collisions and stuff, so no rotation and wobbling to station.

4. Moved part of crew from transfer vessel to container in station, tried to build some stuff with EL dock, realized that crew has no experience and building doesn't progress, canceled it and moved crew back to transfer vessel.

5. Clicked undock in transfer vessel's docking port menu.

6. Pressed [ / ] keys to switch to transfer vessel, nothing happened. Switching to other vessels via Alarm clock or map also produced no effect (moreover, no switching menu popped up on map at this point when clicking on vessels).

7. Gone back to KSC->tracking station, selected separated transfer vessel, clicked "fly it".

8. Shortly after scene loaded, transfer vessel was gone (in one occasion only 1 cockpit part was floating near station), , in few secs I saw an explosion and in flight log there was stated that all transfer vessel's parts exceeded g-force tolerance.

8a. In one occassion after scene was loaded, transfer vessel was floating away from station and like 20-30 m/s while also rapidly rotating, SAS helped, then I noticed that station also had quite a rotation, even though at moment of undocking it was totally still despite SAS was off.

8b. In one occassion, after scene was loaded, I found out that vessel is still docked to station. Trying to undock led to points 6-8.

0.90 NEAR A Simpler Aerodynamics Model v1.3.1

0.90 DockingPortAlignment_4.0

0.90 Chatterer-0.8.0

0.90 Active Texture Management 4.3.0 basic

0.90 ProcFairings_3.11

0.90 RCSBuildAid_v0.5.3

0.90 ShipManifest 0.90.3.3.3

0.90 KAS – Kerbal Attachment System 0.4.10

0.90 Toolbar-1.7.8

0.90 ScienceAlert-1.8.4

0.90 Davon supply mod v011

0.90 DMagic_Orbital_Science_V0.9.1

0.90 Engineer-Redux-v1.0.14.1

0.90 EditorExtensions_v2.5

0.90 DeadlyReentry v6.4.0

0.90 RealChute_Parachute_Systems-v1.2.6.3

0.90 Stock-Bug-Fix-Modules 0.1.7b

0.90 Trajectories-v1.1.2

0.90 MechJeb2-2.4.2-386 + NEAR module!

0.90 Stock-Revamp 1.6 CLOSE ALL SOLAR PANELS

0.90 StageRecovery_1.5.3

0.90 ModuleManager.2.5.8

0.90 Extraplanetary Launchpads v5.0 + recycle to RocketParts

0.90 NearFutureTech 0.4.0 construction+solar+prop

0.25 KW Rocketry v2.6d2

0.90 ProceduralParts.1.0 +textures

0.90 TextureReplacer-2.1.2 & Endraxials Planets and Moons For TR 2014 v2.0 lite & visor

0.90 KerbalAlarmClock_3.2.2

0.90 Action Groups Extended 1.29d

0.90 Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.1

4k batteries attached to a node attached through a couple of nodes to a thing that is surface attached (b52 adapter)

Err.. How it looks like at least?

[LostOblivion]

I'll see if I can reproduce it by launching a new craft. I've reverted to 2.4.5 which seems to work fine.

[ferram4]

@helaeon: A picture and point out which parts are physicsless, please. I can't figure out what you're doing at all.

@Mystique: And can you reproduce it without those mods involved? I cannot reproduce following your steps at all, unless EL is necessary to produce the issue. Extra confounding variables do not help in finding and fixing bugs.

[chrisl]

I can't reproduce it, on either tiny probes or large vessels, for both of your reports. I sent a probe out to Duna specifically to test, and it was perfectly fine, nothing wrong.

Strange. I've tried it now on two separate installs of KSP (two different computers). I've got basically the same mods on both of them. One system does include HabitatPack because of an older test game I have on that install but that shouldn't be a factor since none of the parts from HabitatPack are used in the game I'm loading or the ships I'm trying to focus on. I've tested with both the 3.1 build and with the dev dll and get the same results with both. I just went through and loaded each of the 31 flights I have going in this (my new 0.9) game. Of those:

6 are flags which work just fine,

1 is a base sitting on the surface of Mun (5 occupants - no probe cores),

1 is a Lander sitting on Mun next to the base (no current occupants - no probe cores),

1 is an Lander in orbit around MinMus (no current occupants - no probe cores),

1 is a space station in orbit around Kerbin (1 occupant - no probe cores),

1 is basically just rubish sitting on the surface of Mun (1 probe core - should probably kill that),

1 is a command module in the process of returning from Minmus (3 occupants - no probe cores - Kerbin SOI at 41k km)

16 are communication and SCANSat satelites in stationary orbits around Kerbin, Mun and Minmus (1 probe core each - each in orbit within 2000km)

3 are packages of rovers and satelites on their way to Duna (2-3 probe cores per flight - each is in Kerbol's SOI - two are at approx 12.3Gm - one is at approx 13Gm)

Of all the above 31 flights, only the 3 in Kerbol's SOI (the ones with multiple probe cores) have an issue with KJR. With any of those three, if I focus on them (either from the tracking station or switching to them while focused on another flight) they spin apart. I've included some screenshots to try and help you see what I'm seeing:

This is a shot from the tracking station before focusing in on one of the three problem flights:

Here is a shot of one of the flights after focusing in. Notice that I have time warp going so KJR hasn't taken effect:

And this shot is after the ship has flown apart as viewed from the map. What you can't see is all those satellites are moving away from the "center" one. Also what you aren't seeing is now I have 58 pieces of debris (where I had none before) and there are now 39 probes when there were only 20. Since there were only 3 probe cores on this flight I'm not sure why there are not 19 new probes being listed. I'm guessing that a number of parts got mistakenly listed as probes instead of debris but when 77 new flights appear instantly, I guess the game has some trouble:

Not sure if this will help but the list of mods I'm using is:

Active Texture Management (basic x86 version)

Tech Manager 1.5 & Community Tech Tree 1.1

Davon Supply Mod 11

Deadly Reentry 6.4

IonCross Crew Support 1.18

Karbonite 5.1

K+ 0.3

Kerbal Alarm Clock 3.2.2

MechJeb 2.4.2

Near Future Construction 4.0

Near Future Electrical 3.1

Near Future Propulsion 4.0

Near Future Solar 4.0

Near Future Spacecraft 3.1

Procedural Wings 9.3

Procedural Fairings 3.11

Regolith 0.1.2

RemoteTech 1.6

SCANSat 9.4.1

Ship Manifest 3.3.3

Stockalike Station Parts 2.1

Stock Drag Fix 1.1

Toolbar 1.7.8

Universal Storage 1.0.90.1

I can also provide a savegame if you've got someplace I can send it.

[ferram4]

I am still unable to reproduce the issue. None of my vessels, however complicated suffer from that; what is different about your problem vessels? Can you simplify them down? Give me something to distinguish them from everything else.

I have noticed a trend with this particular update, that all the people having issues have a very large number of mods and cannot simplify their vehicles down to a simple test case. I don't have the time to do all those test cases, especially since I don't even know what I'm testing for or what's on those problem vehicles to begin with. I'm being tasked with baking a cake without the baking time and baking temperature, and having attempted to substitute my own guesses for those, they've failed; it's up to you guys to tell me what I need to do to cause it and exactly, because I'm utterly clueless as to how to cause it.

Edit: Wait, I think I got it!

Okay, someone try out the dev build I just pushed and see if that fixed it.

Edited January 14, 2015 by ferram4

[terminalmonky]

I am still unable to reproduce the issue. None of my vessels, however complicated suffer from that; what is different about your problem vessels? Can you simplify them down? Give me something to distinguish them from everything else.

I have noticed a trend with this particular update, that all the people having issues have a very large number of mods and cannot simplify their vehicles down to a simple test case. I don't have the time to do all those test cases, especially since I don't even know what I'm testing for or what's on those problem vehicles to begin with. I'm being tasked with baking a cake without the baking time and baking temperature, and having attempted to substitute my own guesses for those, they've failed; it's up to you guys to tell me what I need to do to cause it and exactly, because I'm utterly clueless as to how to cause it.

Edit: Wait, I think I got it!

Okay, someone try out the dev build I just pushed and see if that fixed it.

I was having same problem and just grabbed the new dll and tested. I can confirm the stickyness I was having was with Universal Storage in early career and it is FIXED now.

Thanks Ferram4

[Mystique]

@Mystique: And can you reproduce it without those mods involved? I cannot reproduce following your steps at all, unless EL is necessary to produce the issue. Extra confounding variables do not help in finding and fixing bugs.

Today I tried to do exactly the same stuff as yesterday and all went well. The only noticeable difference was that after undocking vessel it became controlled ship. So let's consider this some random bug.

[chrisl]

I am still unable to reproduce the issue. None of my vessels, however complicated suffer from that; what is different about your problem vessels? Can you simplify them down? Give me something to distinguish them from everything else.

I have noticed a trend with this particular update, that all the people having issues have a very large number of mods and cannot simplify their vehicles down to a simple test case. I don't have the time to do all those test cases, especially since I don't even know what I'm testing for or what's on those problem vehicles to begin with. I'm being tasked with baking a cake without the baking time and baking temperature, and having attempted to substitute my own guesses for those, they've failed; it's up to you guys to tell me what I need to do to cause it and exactly, because I'm utterly clueless as to how to cause it.

Edit: Wait, I think I got it!

Okay, someone try out the dev build I just pushed and see if that fixed it.

Just tried the dev build and I am able to focus on those three flights now. Tried several way to focus in (from tracking station and from map) and everything looks good.

[Cerebrate]

I am still unable to reproduce the issue. None of my vessels, however complicated suffer from that; what is different about your problem vessels? Can you simplify them down? Give me something to distinguish them from everything else.

I have noticed a trend with this particular update, that all the people having issues have a very large number of mods and cannot simplify their vehicles down to a simple test case.

Was tryin' - trouble was, I still haven't come up with a simplified test case that fails in any sort of reliable manner enough to tell you how to cause it, so... (Of course, I am sorting through an extreme number of mods here to isolate that, so.) Fortunately...

Okay, someone try out the dev build I just pushed and see if that fixed it.

...that dev build seems to have fixed it for me, or at least it hasn't happened on my all-mod "production" install since I updated that with it, even on ships (and saves) where it's happened in the past. So for my money, I think that did fix it.

(Out of curiosity, what was it?)

-c

[Andrewmacor]

I'm using Universal Storage but haven't yet noticed an issue getting stuck on the launch pad. However, with 3.1 I am having the issue with ships spontaneously separating into their individual parts and flying away at axtreme speed.

All I did was install the newest version of KJR, then load into Kerbal, load up my save, go into the tracking station and select one of the probes I've sent to Duna. Soon as KJR kicks in, the flies apart with the probe core spining at incredible speed. Soon as I remove KJR I can load up the ship without issue.

EDIT: Tried it with the dev build of the dll but get the same results.

Ever scince I installed the new KJR I have almost the same problem with all my "composed" satelites and Station. I'm going to see if I can "downgrade" my KJR to see if that fixes it for me.

Edit:

Ok so, a week ago I had a problem that I thought was orbital material science, but it endup being KJR's dll, So I posted my problem on the support forum and a guy gave me this dll. I re installed it and didn't even needed to downgrade the KJR just the dll and it worked like a charm.

Here is the link for the dll he gave me: https://github.com/ferram4/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement/raw/master/GameData/KerbalJointReinforcement/Plugin/KerbalJointReinforcement.dll

Hope it works for you

Edited January 15, 2015 by Andrewmacor
Found a solution

[ferram4]

@Cerebrate: I was insufficiently rigorous when making sure that the rigid bodies being connected were not null. When the second rigid body of a joint is null, the joint is connected to worldspace; this is what launch clamps do to stay in place, and is part of the reason why you can get them to fly after you if you accelerate away at >750 m/s, which is when the world moves with you.

Problem is it seems like it takes a second for that to be set up right, so in that second, if you're moving at high enough velocity, the connection to worldspace asplodes your vehicle.

Anyway, KJR v3.1.1 is out to fix the issue. That should be it for now.

[chrisl]

the connection to worldspace asplodes your vehicle.

Anyway, KJR v3.1.1 is out to fix the issue. That should be it for now.

Yeah. That about describes what I was seeing. But it's working great now.

[Cerebrate]

Ah, gotcha.

Thanks muchly, for the explanation and the fix both!

-c

[Galane]

...if you accelerate away at >750 m/s, which is when the world moves with you.

It's probably a good thing that doesn't happen in real life.

OR

So that is how Superman made Earth spin backwards!

[tater]

I have been having these sticky docking port issues since 0.90 as well. I just updated KJR to 3.1.1 and still have the issue. I made a copy of vanilla 0.90, and added my core default mods one at a time, plus I added hyper edit so I could warp craft to orbit to test the docking issue. (didn't occur to me to test on the ground until just now, but I was having the issue without ever having HE installed before now.

Anyway, I have (each space between mods means I tested the craft, then quit, and added the next mod):

Hyperedit

StockBugFixModules

ModuleManager.2.5.6.dll

DRE

FAR

KJR

I launched them, then hyper edited them to 100000m. Then quit if I could uncouple the 2 vessels, then added another mod. All worked except the last one, KJR, which will not decouple. To be clear, by the time KJR was installed, all the mods listed were active (HE/SBFM/DRE/FAR/KJR). You can tumble or RCS the lander a little, then hit normal time warp and watch the crafts separate… when you drop to 1:1 time, if they are close they slam back together (though it shows the docking attachment as not actually docked), if they are a little farther than magnet range… there can be a huge explosion as both blow to bits (I had parts given kerbin escape velocity). The test pictured below, they slammed back together after I did time compression.

The two vessels are decoupled, but stuck together.

persistent (after undocking): http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=69316402618047980936

craft: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=59833500955925327104

EDIT:

I also tested with the new MM version, and I tested minus the StockBugFixModules mod, in case it was somehow a conflict.

Edited January 16, 2015 by tater

[Claw]

Tater, you pasted your timyupload DELETE link! You might want to fix that.

Cheers,

~Claw

[tater]

Thanks. Could not see the green text very well, lol.

I took my test career game that was becoming unplayable (every Nth craft was having locked docking ports), and yanked KJR, then reloaded by save… works fine.

On the plus side, some earlier explosions from this problem created some interesting rescue operations.

Edited January 16, 2015 by tater

[biohazard15]

So... Is KJR v3.x is safe enough to use, or I should stick with 2.4.5 for the time being?

[tater]

No idea. I just noticed a new version of MM (2.5.8) was out, and I used that in the same test above just in case that was an issue… stuck again, and exit to space center, come back… and BOOM.

Edited January 16, 2015 by tater

[armegeddon]

Encountered a couple of problems.

1) I made a orbital refuel station using 6 Kerbodyne large fuel tanks in a multi-point configuration. There are 2 tanks along the main body, and the other 4 tanks are connected around the main structure with Infernal Robotics powered hinges so they can be folded down during launch to keep center of mass lower. They would unfold once in orbit. Only problem is they would not unfold. The hinges would show the position indicator moving, but the tanks would stay glued along the main body. Removing KJR allowed them to unfold normally.

2) Refueling the same station from above; all 4 spoke tanks are empty, so send up a 5 tank refueling ship. Everything is going along fine, filling each spoke tank up then moving to the next, until I get the final tank almost full. It would suddenly start shaking, which would cause the rest of the ship to begin shaking until it fell apart and exploded. Was able to fill it without removing KJR by filling each tank half way, then filling the rest of the way.

3) When undocking the two ships from above, the docking ports would immediately try to redock, but since they were not aligned anymore, they began oscillating both ships until one or both fell apart. Removing KJR to undock worked fine.

[tater]

Ferram, since mine is pretty reproducible, let me know if there is anything I can do or test for you.