PorkWorks dev thread [Habitat Pack] [SpaceplanePlus]

[Porkjet]

Porkjet, I'm enjoying your mods immensely! Your Models and Textures are beautiful, and I love how you try to keep to to a stock-alike aesthetic. I've been wanting to do a space plane parts pack for a while but my modeling is crap, and frankly I'm totally overwhelmed by it all. Here is some crappy MS Paint sketches I just did to show you some of the ideas I had in mind. These are parts I would like to build with, and if they spark your imagination, i would love to see your attempt at them or something similar!

We really need a 2.5 meter cockpit section!

http://i.imgur.com/G26rDck.png

A 2 kerbal capacity would be reasonable. I know the Mk3 is supposed to fill this niche, but with the mk3 fuselage being so underdeveloped, and TonouTorpedo seemingly unlikely to re-upload his efforts, I think this would be very appreciated. This part would also marry nicely with some of the fuselage sections in the KAX pack. This one steps down to a 1.25 meter nose section.

A nice pointy nose cone with a hypersonic-look would be fantastic.

http://i.imgur.com/vjv15nN.png

The structural nosecone in the game doesn't really give an impression (accurate or not) of the hypersonic speeds that an air-breathing SSTO spaceplane would need to reach in order to achieve orbit. I've been rotating the game's tail section around to point forward with mixed results.

I think a line of Conformal Fuel Tanks would be useful and make for some really pretty space planes and Rockets.

http://i.imgur.com/j6q9VKv.png

With a surface attachment point in the deepest part of the curve, a 1.25 meter section would wrap nicely around 1.25 meter round tanks, and would clip slightly into 2.5 meter parts and flat sections to achieve a seamless appearance.

Something similar could be done with a Blended Wing section.

http://i.imgur.com/KqdtH0P.png

My thinking was a part that had big lift in trade for big drag and weight. This would help larger designs avoid the ridiculous wing spamming that is necessary to make them perform. With a large internal volume it would also be a place to clip Monopropellant, batteries, small fuel tanks, etc without feeling like you are completely cheating. Heck, it would be a good place to clip in a bunch of winglets for even more lift if it doesn't bother you!

To those with more mod knowledge than me, I apologize if these ideas have been done before. I'm not very familiar with B9, for instance, because I'm not a big fan of the aesthetic.

Wow, awesome drawings! Those are great ideas, I've been thinking about 2.5m parts for a while but there's just so much other stuff I also wanna do.

Like, I think there's a shortage of possibilities to transport 2.5m parts as cargo in spaceplanes, and I would shape the cross section like the Orion (I REALLY want ro be able to build the orion in KSP) and Space Shuttle, which is basically a circle with a flattened bottom, and I was thinking to base the circle on 3.75m. This would make it very easy to adapt the parts to regular 3.75m and use the readily availiable 3.75m parts on them. Of course the same could be done based on 2.5m, but then it could just transport things that are smaller than 2.5m, which we already can do using MK2 cargobays.

So, its hard to decide which to do first, but currently I'd tend to think the 3.75m based parts would fill the bigger niche.

But in any case, I declare all patents on those sketches for the future

I'll second this one. In fact any sort of plane nosecone would be nice. There is a shortage of them.

Also I haven't said it yet, but I really like your plane parts, especially how easy to use the wings are.

There's indeed a shortage on nosecones. I'll try to change that after the IVA's are done.

[DevL]

Like, I think there's a shortage of possibilities to transport 2.5m parts as cargo in spaceplanes

Sweet! This is just getting better and better.

[Exothermos]

Oh boy, now you've done it. You didn't tell me to take a hike, so prepare yourself for "Idea Vomit"!

Like, I think there's a shortage of possibilities to transport 2.5m parts as cargo in spaceplanes, and I would shape the cross section like the Orion (I REALLY want ro be able to build the orion in KSP) and Space Shuttle, which is basically a circle with a flattened bottom, and I was thinking to base the circle on 3.75m. This would make it very easy to adapt the parts to regular 3.75m and use the readily availiable 3.75m parts on them..

But in any case, I declare all patents on those sketches for the future

Actually, you are totally right, that would be great. I've given this a ton of thought (as building space planes is almost the only thing i do) and when I heard about the 3.75 parts coming out, this is how I imagined a space plane pack could take advantage of that and look cool:

These have circular cross sections. In this way, you can build one 1.25 meter nosecone for all applications, A 2.5 meter cockpit that can be used on 2.5 meter parts or married with a nice special adapter to 3.75 meter parts. The adapter can carry fuel, potentially, and can be reversed to taper down at the back of the craft. with that circular cross section any stock part can be swapped in for your special parts to give maximum flexibility when building all sorts of craft. If you notice from the pic, there is a slight downward taper to the parts I've drawn. This is purely for aesthetics, and does induce a small problem with CoM as the attachment nodes are pushed down towards the front of the parts. In my experience this is just not a big problem on larger craft, however. The change in the crafts CoM will be negligable.

This also looks a lot like many of the beautiful concepts for the x-30 competition from the 90s.

Another thing I've been thinking about is some sort of analog of a Scramjet and Intake:

This one might be too ambitious, but it would be highly satisfying to fly at extremely high speeds and altitudes with a system that is a little more beliveable than the Turbojet /ram-air intake system. See X-30, X-43, X-51 etc.

The parts would have a CoM and Attachment in the standard configuration for 1.25m parts, allowing them to be attached at the back of a spaceplane. Intakes would attach similarly, with a nesting and protruding leading edge allowing some minor level of stacking.

Ballancing the performance of the parts would be the hard part. I think to keep things simple an exagerated version of the turbojet / ram-air intake profile would fit the bill well. The intakes gather more air at higer speed and the engine performs better at higher altitudes. While not really accurate, I know that speed-altitude based performance isn't really possible in the game.

I've already tried to do a non-functional mock-up of how this would appear ingame with a few of my builds.

I could go on and on with this stuff, but I think i'll stop there Take from it what you will!

Edited June 4, 2014 by Exothermos

[Porkjet]

Woa this guy, throws out one cool idea after another! Haha. I like the modular cockpit idea, it would allow for great building flexibility. Scramjets really are a difficult thing tho. I've done some experiments and in-game mockups for scramjets, and I kinda prefer the idea to make them radially attachable parts. The thrust would be off center but I find it's a nice chellange to try and balance a plane design that makes up for that.

In KSP, going actually hypersonic almost equals going to orbit. At around mach 8 you reach orbital velocity on Kerbin, wheras on earth you'd need to go to something like mach 25 to pull that off. So, by nature, Scramjets in KSP are kinda overpowered, maybe it's a good thing if they are difficult to handle, so getting to orbit stays a challange.

I kinda fell in love with the SR-72 concepts, which very much remind me of those X-30 concepts you posted.

It's gonna have a two in one tubine+scramjet engine that's supposed to go to mach 6 from a standstill. I'd love to see that engine in KSP!

Edited June 4, 2014 by Porkjet

[Commander Zoom]

*sees that Porkjet posted, and again makes with the puppy eyes for a Large Centrifugium*

Keep the tube thickness as it is, if you like - just a larger hub. Please?

[wasmic]

Alright, if you're talking about (sc)ramjets now, I have a suggestion for making it balanced: Simply use thrustCurve to make it produce no thrust below let's say 500 m/s. Thus, the player will be able to fly ridiculously fast, at the expense of having to carry three types of engine to achieve orbit (normal jet, scramjet and rocket), or just two if they use a rapier. I think that the Combined Cycle Turbo/Ramjets might be too overpowered for a game like KSP.

[Porkjet]

*sees that Porkjet posted, and again makes with the puppy eyes for a Large Centrifugium*

Keep the tube thickness as it is, if you like - just a larger hub. Please?

Find someone who can fix the animation problems and I'll model more centrifuges than you can handle (!)

Alright, if you're talking about (sc)ramjets now, I have a suggestion for making it balanced: Simply use thrustCurve to make it produce no thrust below let's say 500 m/s. Thus, the player will be able to fly ridiculously fast, at the expense of having to carry three types of engine to achieve orbit (normal jet, scramjet and rocket), or just two if they use a rapier. I think that the Combined Cycle Turbo/Ramjets might be too overpowered for a game like KSP.

Don't worry, balancing is not a problem. Turbojet mode could be more on the realistic side like the basic jet engine and go to about 1000m/s, and ramjet mode would start to work at maybe 800m/s, making the transition between modes a nice chellange. TWR of ramjet mode I'd put quite low too.

[Albert VDS]

Find someone who can fix the animation problems and I'll model more centrifuges than you can handle (!)

Which animation problems?

[Sochin]

Porkjet the X30 project pics from the 90's and recent post showing the SR72 are exactly what I was on about regarding intakes that would massively cool with your mod.

[Starwaster]

Find someone who can fix the animation problems and I'll model more centrifuges than you can handle (!)

Done.

Sort of. Solution is to use the Firespitter animator. That seems to fix the problem of multiple animation states conflicting. However, the habitat restrictor starts throwing null errors if the inflation animation is not using the stock animator. So I tried using FSAnimateGeneric for the spin animation only and that seems to work.

code sample for how I reworked the animation modules:

MODULE
{
name = ModuleAnimateGeneric
animationName = deploy
startEventGUIName = Deploy
endEventGUIName = Retract
}
MODULE
{
name = FSanimateGeneric
//name = ModuleAnimator
animationName = rotation
startEventGUIName = Spin
endEventGUIName = Reverse
}

[Pockrtplanesairways]

With the IVAs, I wish that kerbals when controlling it, moved the control sticks on their seats.

[Damaske]

Porkjet, Can you redo the dual adapter into a triple adapter? Maybe some larger wings that we don't have to relay on "Procedural Dynamics - Procedural Wing" for a wide delta like shaped wing, or long straight wings pieces.

[Porkjet]

Done.

Sort of. Solution is to use the Firespitter animator. That seems to fix the problem of multiple animation states conflicting. However, the habitat restrictor starts throwing null errors if the inflation animation is not using the stock animator. So I tried using FSAnimateGeneric for the spin animation only and that seems to work.

code sample for how I reworked the animation modules:

MODULE
{
name = ModuleAnimateGeneric
animationName = deploy
startEventGUIName = Deploy
endEventGUIName = Retract
}
MODULE
{
name = FSanimateGeneric
//name = ModuleAnimator
animationName = rotation
startEventGUIName = Spin
endEventGUIName = Reverse
}

Amazing!! Will test that out tomorrow!

Porkjet the X30 project pics from the 90's and recent post showing the SR72 are exactly what I was on about regarding intakes that would massively cool with your mod.

That is true, the SR-72 finally convinced me.

Porkjet, Can you redo the dual adapter into a triple adapter? Maybe some larger wings that we don't have to relay on "Procedural Dynamics - Procedural Wing" for a wide delta like shaped wing, or long straight wings pieces.

Probably not a triple 1.25m adapter by itself, but I've planned a bunch of parts that might cover that purpose.

[Damaske]

Ok kwel, I didn't mean replace it but make another one like it. I was thinking of a new triple 1.25 adapter to make a shuttle like craft with the large orange tank and outboard boosters like the old NASA Shuttle. It is possible with the Pants but would be nice to have the 3rd engine there. And maybe another that has 3 1.25m and 3 0.62m ( or the official smaller size) adapter for more shuttle like crafts.

I look forward to the other parts as I do enjoy the Mk 2 parts you have, any progress on the IVA, or maybe showing of the kerbals that are flying it? It is kinda odd to fly without seeing there panic as you tumble out of control, or there excitement as you make it into orbit.

[jfull]

With the IVAs, I wish that kerbals when controlling it, moved the control sticks on their seats.

I don't think Porkjet (or many modders at all) could manage that.

That would involve making many changes to how the Kerbals are animated in IVA.

[Starwaster]

I don't think Porkjet (or many modders at all) could manage that.

That would involve making many changes to how the Kerbals are animated in IVA.

That said, the KSO IVA has control sticks that move as you control the ship. Just no Kerbal hands attched to them.

(hmmmm TIL that Kerbals are telekinetic...)

[Porkjet]

Done.

Sort of. Solution is to use the Firespitter animator. That seems to fix the problem of multiple animation states conflicting. However, the habitat restrictor starts throwing null errors if the inflation animation is not using the stock animator. So I tried using FSAnimateGeneric for the spin animation only and that seems to work.

code sample for how I reworked the animation modules:

MODULE
{
name = ModuleAnimateGeneric
animationName = deploy
startEventGUIName = Deploy
endEventGUIName = Retract
}
MODULE
{
name = FSanimateGeneric
//name = ModuleAnimator
animationName = rotation
startEventGUIName = Spin
endEventGUIName = Reverse
}

Ok so, the good news is this does fix the Snapping of the retract animation.

Unfortunetely it also makes the thing spin automatically with no way to stop it.

It's clearly better than using two stock animators tho. I think I tried FS for this before but probably not in this combination. hmm.

I guess this works good enough to justify throwing another not so perfectly working part at the public. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ok kwel, I didn't mean replace it but make another one like it. I was thinking of a new triple 1.25 adapter to make a shuttle like craft with the large orange tank and outboard boosters like the old NASA Shuttle. It is possible with the Pants but would be nice to have the 3rd engine there. And maybe another that has 3 1.25m and 3 0.62m ( or the official smaller size) adapter for more shuttle like crafts.

I look forward to the other parts as I do enjoy the Mk 2 parts you have, any progress on the IVA, or maybe showing of the kerbals that are flying it? It is kinda odd to fly without seeing there panic as you tumble out of control, or there excitement as you make it into orbit.

Ah now I understand, you mean an adapter that arranges the three engines in a triangle. That makes a lot more sense than arranging three in a row. Why didnt I think of this? For a shuttle however, you also wanna have the engines tilted towards the common center of mass of the Spaceplane + External Tank. A fixed angle adapter probably wouldnt be of much help there either. It's actually really difficult to make a Spaceshuttle in KSP. I tried to make one with SP+ without using tons of reaction wheels and kinda got it working but it was very difficult. I used Editor extensions to radial attach nosecones with engines to the back so I had control over the tilt and direction of thrust. But this also only allows tilting in 5° increments which was not precise enough to make it perfect, but better than nothing. So to to enable you to build shuttles with SP+ I would rather design some clever radial attach engine mounts than a stiff adapter.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Porkjet

[ZodiusInfuser]

Porkjet, maybe that could be resolved if I ever get around to releasing this robotics part (-22.5° to +22.5°):

It has the added advantage that once your main fuel tank is decoupled you can realign the angle to the centre of mass.

[Prime flux]

Apprently Stupid_chris is working on some kind of animation plugin. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/73283-0-23-x-AdvancedAnimator-ModuleAnimateGeneric-upgraded-v1-1-1-2-04-14 It might be interesting to check it out

[Starwaster]

Apprently Stupid_chris is working on some kind of animation plugin. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/73283-0-23-x-AdvancedAnimator-ModuleAnimateGeneric-upgraded-v1-1-1-2-04-14 It might be interesting to check it out

It can't handle looping animations so the centrifuge spins once then stops.

also, @Porkjet strange, I dont think I experienced that. Might be a side effect of switching animator modules and testing an existing craft rather than launching a new test vehicle. I'll re-examine.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Starwaster

[Commander Zoom]

It can't handle looping animations so the centrifuge spins once then stops.

Use it for inflate/deflate, and the regular one (or Firespitter) for the rotation?

[Starwaster]

Use it for inflate/deflate, and the regular one (or Firespitter) for the rotation?

I have. I didn't really see an improvement. Don't take my word for it though, try it and judge for yourself. The lack of looping animation support killed it for me. Maybe in the future it'll be added

[Mettwurst]

Wow, your really productive! I have I single wish for the IVA

Please adjust the height of the Seats so our Victims.. uh brave Kerbals can actually see the incoming doom

Have some Eyecandy

[Mettwurst]

Oh, before I forget. I had an idea for a suitable nosecone for the Inline Cockpit.

I think it would be nice to have it open to store small satellites or a docking port on the inside.

The KSO allready has an opening nosecone, and I only use it with a dockingport on the inside.

Something like this would be awesome!

[Starwaster]

Wow, your really productive! I have I single wish for the IVA

Please adjust the height of the Seats so our Victims.. uh brave Kerbals can actually see the incoming doom

Have some Eyecandy

http://i.imgur.com/nw6Iste.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bAplgFX.jpg

Wow, really? Let's just stick those clockwork orange eyelid clamps on them while you're at it