[1.12.X] RealChute Parachute Systems v1.4.8.3 | 24/01/21

[Crzyrndm]

You could possibly have it Lerp towards some point (preferrably in the direction of ground normal to prevent it trying to go through a cliff) while the delay is running plus a bit of left/right noise on the vector. Shouldn't look too wierd most of the time... (how much instability are we talking here. Something that slowly topples over isn't going to be helped by the chutes being open for a bit longer, but something that just bounces off might gain from it. Checking for something bouncing would probably be <1 second delay)

It is a bit of a difficult issue to get around though...

[stupid_chris]

I'm not really trying to make the dissapearance look nicer here, I'm trying to find a solution to a problem reported by some user, and unless I missed something obvious I'm feeling like I already explored the options that I mentioned originally and that are being proposed again :/

[futrtrubl]

That would mean a frozen parachute in the air for 1-2s while the craft is potentially landed.

So as I said, a timer is not a good solution.

I don't see too much of a problem with that. IRL the chute would stay inflated for that long after landing. If you really want an animation have the chute on the same vector but gradually shorten.

If not, then on landing cut the chute as normal and start a timer. If before the timer expires there is enough motion instantly pop out another chute.

Edward

[Ricardo79]

Something I am not getting... or "The user" just asked a feature that is already in there.

I mean The chutes seems to autocutted, when it almost stopped the craft.

And I think near or below 1m/s the brakes shouldn't flipp over the craft.

(I using the stackable ones for braking fairly large aircrafts)

So for this game It shouldn't be more realistic than that.

About the indicator I always thaught you used the vessel's ABS(vertical)+ABS(horizontal) speed and checked against a reasonably small amount.

Some post ago I told you that this mods best part for me that it can be used as a landing/braking chute.

[sumghai]

Now that I think of it, a timer wouldn't be so bad, since in real life parachutes do take a short amount of time to settle down once the craft has landing.

[stupid_chris]

Now that I think of it, a timer wouldn't be so bad, since in real life parachutes do take a short amount of time to settle down once the craft has landing.

They do, but they don't sit there in the air, fully inflated for nearly a second :/ The important part is to remember that about 95% of landings don't need any other help. I don't believe implementing something that will make nearly all landings except a few special occasions seem weird is a good way to palliate that.

[Drew Kerman]

I may be misinterpreting the issue, but sounds to me like you're trying to come up with a way to account for people's bad designs. That doesn't seem like a good use of your time IMO. Large craft or not, if you want it to be stable when it lands then you should properly be placing chutes on it so that it is stable when it lands. Or am I missing something here?

[stupid_chris]

I may be misinterpreting the issue, but sounds to me like you're trying to come up with a way to account for people's bad designs. That doesn't seem like a good use of your time IMO. Large craft or not, if you want it to be stable when it lands then you should properly be placing chutes on it so that it is stable when it lands. Or am I missing something here?

This is also what it appears to me, but I've been asked this enough to consider it. I was trying to find an easy to apply solution that would not have a negative visual impact but couldn't find any, reason why I'm asking here, but it seems others come to the same potential solutions as me, which don't fit how I'd like to behave :/

[Starwaster]

This is also what it appears to me, but I've been asked this enough to consider it. I was trying to find an easy to apply solution that would not have a negative visual impact but couldn't find any, reason why I'm asking here, but it seems others come to the same potential solutions as me, which don't fit how I'd like to behave :/

I'm still trying to figure out what the gain is that would make it worth the effort that needs to be expended in finding and implementing that solution.

I'm just not seeing the gain. If it's just to appease those who think 'it would be neat', then I just don't see how it's worth it.

[Sampa]

Hey, mind if I,request a chute? I'd really like to get a 1.25 m inline chute. This is simply because i would like to provide the 1.25 capsule some extra life as an escape craft for stations.

[stupid_chris]

I'm still trying to figure out what the gain is that would make it worth the effort that needs to be expended in finding and implementing that solution.

I'm just not seeing the gain. If it's just to appease those who think 'it would be neat', then I just don't see how it's worth it.

It's how I feel as well, I asked in case I missed something obvious, but if not, then I guess this'll have to do.

Hey, mind if I,request a chute? I'd really like to get a 1.25 m inline chute. This is simply because i would like to provide the 1.25 capsule some extra life as an escape craft for stations.

... there is??

[Ricardo79]

I see. I missunderstood this.

For the "visual effect" of deflating the chute. I think you might come up with other more usefull things instead. It is just a waste of time. Stock chutes also just dissapear.

So If you want work on something which should be a fine addition please make it optional to show/not show your chutes in the stages. Something like include staging / use a "hotkey/actionkey" for chutes.

Your icon is in the toolbar already so you can make your feedback there for the states of the chute.

1.25 inline chute is presented. (or just use TScale if it is 2.5m) I don't know which one it is as TS tend to make it automaticaly fit to the right size when I put it before the engine.

[futrtrubl]

1.25 inline chute is presented. (or just use TScale if it is 2.5m) I don't know which one it is as TS tend to make it automaticaly fit to the right size when I put it before the engine.

Tweakscale not needed. If you don't have action groups unlocked yet then you can change the size with right click on the part. If it is then left clicking on the part in action groups mode gets you full control.

[Ricardo79]

Tweakscale not needed. If you don't have action groups unlocked yet then you can change the size with right click on the part. If it is then left clicking on the part in action groups mode gets you full control.

Thank you. I didn't knew that exists as I always use TS for the robotics stuff anyway.

But still I am sure this pack has everything which should be needed. Good job there.

[jab136]

I was just wondering why these chutes were free to use in terms of price in career after the initial purchase in R&D? anyone have any good ideas for pricing these?

[DaPatman]

They do have a cost, but it's not a fixed one (which is why it's listed as 0). Instead, cost is determined by three things: what size you make the part, how much material is needed for the canopies and what material the canopies are made of.

[jab136]

They do have a cost, but it's not a fixed one (which is why it's listed as 0). Instead, cost is determined by three things: what size you make the part, how much material is needed for the canopies and what material the canopies are made of.

ah, ok, thanks

[sumghai]

I may be misinterpreting the issue, but sounds to me like you're trying to come up with a way to account for people's bad designs. That doesn't seem like a good use of your time IMO. Large craft or not, if you want it to be stable when it lands then you should properly be placing chutes on it so that it is stable when it lands. Or am I missing something here?

This is also what it appears to me, but I've been asked this enough to consider it. I was trying to find an easy to apply solution that would not have a negative visual impact but couldn't find any, reason why I'm asking here, but it seems others come to the same potential solutions as me, which don't fit how I'd like to behave :/

I'm still trying to figure out what the gain is that would make it worth the effort that needs to be expended in finding and implementing that solution.

I'm just not seeing the gain. If it's just to appease those who think 'it would be neat', then I just don't see how it's worth it.

It's how I feel as well, I asked in case I missed something obvious, but if not, then I guess this'll have to do.

Yeah, I agree that there's not much point pursuing a fix for something that happens very rarely and is primarily due to bad craft design on the end users' part.

[stupid_chris]

For the "visual effect" of deflating the chute. I think you might come up with other more usefull things instead. It is just a waste of time. Stock chutes also just dissapear.

So If you want work on something which should be a fine addition please make it optional to show/not show your chutes in the stages. Something like include staging / use a "hotkey/actionkey" for chutes.

Your icon is in the toolbar already so you can make your feedback there for the states of the chute.

If a visual effect to chutes cutting is going to happen, it's definitely not now, there's a bunch of things that need to be implemented before. As for the icon, I already stated my stand on this: the icon is necessary to indicate what is happening with the parachute, it's staying.

I was just wondering why these chutes were free to use in terms of price in career after the initial purchase in R&D? anyone have any good ideas for pricing these?

As others mentioned, yes, they have cost. It's just set procedurally.

[jpkerman]

Not to distract but just to run something up the flag pole about the autocut/deploy/topple over questions...

1. Could the chute have a strong SAS value that applys for a few seconds after auto cut and then cuts off? I have found that landing with SAS on helps prevent toppling over on slopes and helps with what appears to be some kind of rebounding game physics.

2. Could the inflation animation simply run in reverse before the chutes disappear? I know that is not true deflation motion (I have landed many times by parachute) but it would be good enough and would merely be the opposite of an animation already in the game. Solar panels fold and unfold, why not chutes deploy and undeploy?

[stupid_chris]

1. Could the chute have a strong SAS value that applys for a few seconds after auto cut and then cuts off? I have found that landing with SAS on helps prevent toppling over on slopes and helps with what appears to be some kind of rebounding game physics.

That's exactly the point where it's not my division anymore. Parachutes are *not* SAS, and there is no realistic case where they would behave as such.

2. Could the inflation animation simply run in reverse before the chutes disappear? I know that is not true deflation motion (I have landed many times by parachute) but it would be good enough and would merely be the opposite of an animation already in the game. Solar panels fold and unfold, why not chutes deploy and undeploy?

Yeah I tried that before the first release of the mod. It's really not as good as it sounds.

[sumghai]

2. Could the inflation animation simply run in reverse before the chutes disappear? I know that is not true deflation motion (I have landed many times by parachute) but it would be good enough and would merely be the opposite of an animation already in the game. Solar panels fold and unfold, why not chutes deploy and undeploy?

Yeah I tried that before the first release of the mod. It's really not as good as it sounds.

Since I assisted Chris in making the models and animations used in RealChute, I'll chip in with further info on why reversing the chute animation doesn't look good.

To deploy parachutes in modern spacecraft:

- the parachute case cover is first jettisoned with explosive bolts

- pyrotechnic mortars fire, shooting out small pilot chutes

- the pilot chutes inflate due to air pressure and drag, and eventually produce enough force to pull out the main parachute

- the pilot chutes are then cut off, and the main chute fully inflates after reefing (increasing in size laterally)

After the craft touches down, the main parachute is still momentarily suspended in mid air. The canopy will slowly drift downwards, but due to air drag, the canopy will still remain inflated, while the riser lines slacken. Eventually, the canopy will pancake flat on the ground.

jpkerman, you're effectively suggesting the parachute canopy somehow will push out all the air underneath it and turn back into a neat long strip (and later, a folded bundle), and that somehow, the discarded pilot chutes will magically reappear and the mortars will un-fire. It's like attempting to unboil an egg.

[Starwaster]

Not to distract but just to run something up the flag pole about the autocut/deploy/topple over questions...

1. Could the chute have a strong SAS value that applys for a few seconds after auto cut and then cuts off? I have found that landing with SAS on helps prevent toppling over on slopes and helps with what appears to be some kind of rebounding game physics.

2. Could the inflation animation simply run in reverse before the chutes disappear? I know that is not true deflation motion (I have landed many times by parachute) but it would be good enough and would merely be the opposite of an animation already in the game. Solar panels fold and unfold, why not chutes deploy and undeploy?

And, to chip in my unsolicited advice, real chutes (as in IRL) don't behave the way that you're suggesting they should in the Real Chutes mod. (kind of ironic.... Stupid Chris set out to make better chutes that behave more like their IRL counterparts)

1. Real Chutes don't help your probes be stable on landing. That's your job to deal with. If you find SAS works for you then use SAS. If you find using RCS to stabilize them works then use RCS. Or use broad landing legs. Or land on flatter terrain. Or install KAS so you can grapple to the ground (ala Philae). In each case though, that's your responsibility to figure out. The chutes did their part already by getting you on the ground at substantially lower than terminal velocity or supersonic speeds.
   
2. Do you know what happens to chutes in real life? In most cases A stainless steel guillotine blade severs the lines to disconnect the chutes from the <whatever thing they were attached to>. Or explosive bolts disconnect the lines. But they don't stay attached and they don't 'deflate'.
   

[jpkerman]

Wow, three ways to say 'nope, that won't work'.

Actually I thought you had an issue and was looking for a work around. I did not know a free brainstorm suggestion would warrent responses from three top modders.

Yes, I realize chutes are not SAS and reversing the animation would not be an accurate depiction but I thought, 'what the hay, maybe it might spark a plan.'

And yes, having actually jumped out of planes and landed by chute and rigged heavy cargo for parachute drops and seen them land, I do know how what happens to chutes in real life. And while the technical term is 'spill air' we jumpers will still say 'deflate.

I apologize deeply for said offense and shall retire to my forty lashes.

[Ricardo79]

Wow, three ways to say 'nope, that won't work'.

Actually I thought you had an issue and was looking for a work around. I did not know a free brainstorm suggestion would warrent responses from three top modders.

Yes, I realize chutes are not SAS and reversing the animation would not be an accurate depiction but I thought, 'what the hay, maybe it might spark a plan.'

And yes, having actually jumped out of planes and landed by chute and rigged heavy cargo for parachute drops and seen them land, I do know how what happens to chutes in real life. And while the technical term is 'spill air' we jumpers will still say 'deflate.

I apologize deeply for said offense and shall retire to my forty lashes.

Just for your personal use: If you want to reduce partcount and get SAS in the same time just edit your files and add a module via an MM config:

MODULE

{

name = ModuleReactionWheel

PitchTorque = 20

YawTorque = 20

RollTorque = 20

RESOURCE

{

name = ElectricCharge

rate = 0.5

}

}

}

And even a module advsas or something.