[1.8-1.9] Modular Fuel Tanks v5.13.1

[K3-Chris]

Can you store EPL resources (ore/metal/RP) using MFT?

[taniwha]

Actually, because I use Talisar's spherical tanks, I'd forgotten MFT doesn't support EL's resources.

[taniwha]

Version 4.3 released. Check the first two posts for details (changelog incomplete because I'm not sure what's what).

[i8jello]

Does this work for .23? If not, can you post a link to the .23 one? Thx.

[taniwha]

It might work for 0.23. At worst, a recompile might be necessary. Failing that, you can get 4.2 using the same url, just change the 3 to a 2.

[Vladthemad]

Ok, what's the deal with the latest release containing Module Manager 1.5.7? Every other mod that comes packaged with Module Manager comes with 1.5.6, and the latest release on Sarbian's forum post is 1.5.6. Are you living in the future?

[taniwha]

I found it in my gamedir when packaging up MFT *shrug*

[edit] After talking on irc... I got it from Deadly Reentry and it was an IRC release (that Sarbian is fine with being spread) that attempted to fix a certain bug in 1.5.6.

Edited April 18, 2014 by taniwha

[Vladthemad]

Alright, so there shouldn't be any problem with removing 1.5.6 and using 1.5.7?

[taniwha]

Indeed, there should not be any problem.

[Kaa253]

My Space Shuttle Engines mod tanks have been changing suddenly into a strange and potentially explosive spongy jelly consistency upon emptying of fuel. At the same moment my Player.log (Linux 64) has been spamming "[Error]: Body::setMass: mass is 0.000000, should be positive".

After a long diagnosis I have finally found the source of the problem. Modular Fuel Tanks latest version appears to have missed the resource definition for the two types of "Cryogenic" tanks. All the tanks in Space Shuttle Engines are defined as "Cryogenic" so they are all broken. Looking at the tank definitions I see and have confirmed by flight testing that some of KW's and NP's tanks are similarly broken.

Has no-one seen this? I presume the error has existed since version 4.3 release. A search of this thread for "cryogenic" reveals no similar comments. If the cryogenic types are being deprecated then the module manager configs need to change cryogenic types to default type or something. Sorry if this has already been reported somewhere.

[Talisar]

My Space Shuttle Engines mod tanks have been changing suddenly into a strange and potentially explosive spongy jelly consistency upon emptying of fuel. At the same moment my Player.log (Linux 64) has been spamming "[Error]: Body::setMass: mass is 0.000000, should be positive".

After a long diagnosis I have finally found the source of the problem. Modular Fuel Tanks latest version appears to have missed the resource definition for the two types of "Cryogenic" tanks. All the tanks in Space Shuttle Engines are defined as "Cryogenic" so they are all broken. Looking at the tank definitions I see and have confirmed by flight testing that some of KW's and NP's tanks are similarly broken.

Has no-one seen this? I presume the error has existed since version 4.3 release. A search of this thread for "cryogenic" reveals no similar comments. If the cryogenic types are being deprecated then the module manager configs need to change cryogenic types to default type or something. Sorry if this has already been reported somewhere.

I have the same issue, but I haven't narrowed it to being MFT's fault. The same thing that you describe happens on my install when I use the KW Rocketry 3.75m tanks (the smaller diameter tanks seem to work fine for me though). I'll have to look and see if they're designated as cryogenic when I get home.

- edit: Yay for remote access, I looked and those tanks I am having issues with are indeed designated as cryogenic.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Talisar

[taniwha]

This was actually a deliberate change: cryogenic is an RF thing and so I removed it from MFT.

[Deredere]

Javaii: create a new CFG file somewhere in GameData. Call it whatever you like.cfg

Put this in it, where METHANE is whatever your Liquid Methane resource's name is.

@TANK_DEFINITION[Default]
{
	TANK
	{
		name = METHANE
		amount = 0.0
		maxAmount = 0.0
	}
}

Presto. Now you'll be able to remove LF and add Methane to all your type-Default tanks (most all LFO tanks).

I figured out the process of how to add new definitions so that I can swap fuel around easily, the harder part was figuring out the mix I needed. I'm good now that I've figured it all out, and thanks for replying

So here's my question relating to this. I've got methane going into RF-enabled tanks fine, but I'm wondering where resource unit size is defined, as opposed to density? Because the KSP Interstellar Rockomax 64 holds more way methane (plus LoX) units than the stock Rockomax, 7538 units versus 6400 units - I suppose because it has its own capacity definition - and that's bugging me. Can I alter Methane's unit size downwards, like Xenon, without affecting its unit value? To the ends of matching the performance of the KSPI methane tanks without having to manually define methane capacity for every other tank in the game?

Sorry if this is unclear, why and how Xenon has its own unit size is a little unclear to me in the first place.

[taniwha]

stock resources define only name, mass density (t/u), color, tweakable, flow and transfer I think the parameter you want to tweak is utilization in the tank definition. I'm pretty sure it's resource units / volume unit.

[MrWizerd]

So I was thinking that it would be good to have modular fuels also capable of holding the resources from KSPI that way I don't have to make new tanks for each of the different resource types. So I used this site HERE to get the weights for most of the fuels from KSPI. I think I have converted them properly into the cfg file that I have jotted down and wanted to know if this would work theoretically. I am going to try it here in a second, but I am sure it will need more tweaking in terms of units, but I attempted to calculate the weight by unit I think. So were water equals 1000g per liter, it works out to .01 on the mass line. I am not sure if this is correct, but from what I can see of the weights of the other fuels that have a mass augmentation to be in the ballpark. I know that real fuels deals with some of these resources, however, I am not trying to change what fuel is being burned by motors, just trying to change the fuels the tanks can hold. So I hope that its ok to have this conversation here, instead of there, if not I will delete and re-post as I don't want to take this to the wrong forum. So this is the default tank cfg I wrote, please let me know what you guys think.

TANK_DEFINITION
{
    name = Default
    basemass = 0.000625 * volume
    TANK
    {
        name = LiquidFuel
        amount = full
        maxAmount = 45%
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Oxidizer
        amount = full
        maxAmount = 55%
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = MonoPropellant
        mass = 0.000625
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = XenonGas
        mass = 0.000625
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
        utilization = 56.0
        note = (pressurized)
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Argon
        mass = 0.000825
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
        utilization = 56.0
        note = (pressurized)
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Lithium
        mass = 0.000534
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Deuterium
        mass = 0.0011059
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Tritium
        mass = 0.001215
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Helium-3?
        mass = 0.000625
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = UF4
        mass = 0.019050
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = ThF4
        mass = 0.011720
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Uranium Nitride
        mass = 0.019050
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Liquid Helium
        mass = 0.000454
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Actinides
        mass = 0.010870
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Depleted Fuels
        mass = 0.005435
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Ammonia
        mass = 0.0006826
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
    TANK
    {
        name = Water
        mass = 0.001000
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
    }
}

*Edit,

So I tested this, and I think that I will take out the mass part because it seems that the weights for the actual stuff is independent and that it is only adding to the dry weight. I this mistake is probably due to my not paying attention to the wording on the documentation. I think I only need to add to weight if the tank needs a refrigeration unit or shielding or whatever, so that would only be for the fuels that require a little something extra, it seems the liter units are pretty much the same across the board for all the liquids so, I think I will finish this cfg file. I would still like input, however, on any balancing issues that may arise from this. My main hope is to ditch some of the spare tanks that I wont need thus lowering my memory usage until we get a 64bit windows version.

Edited April 29, 2014 by MrWizerd
Tested

[taniwha]

I think something like that should be a KSPI supplied Module Manager patch. MFT trying to support every mod out there would get out of hand pretty quick.

[MrWizerd]

I can understand that, however, I was mostly doing this for myself, I could offer it to the KSPI people... My main problem is that the game crashes endlessly so I am trying to remove excess models that I don't need and thought that modular tanks could help accomplish that. I can delete the posts if you wish, and ask for help in the KSPI thread if you rather. Like I said I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

[taniwha]

No no, I meant only that I think it would be better for you to get such changes into KSPI than for me to put them into MFT. No need to delete your post or anything like that, as I'm sure there will be other MFT users interested in your changes.

[MrWizerd]

Oh, ok... I have just been met with some minor hostilities when I have made inquiries in other threads before this regarding other such things. I did get it working, however, the only thing I could not do is add active refrigeration to tanks, but this is to be expected. I was thinking of attempting to create an active refrigeration tank, that had its own type. However, it kind of defeats the purpose of reducing texture files. Then again, one tank that replaces 2 is still better off... Anyhow, I will take the file over to KSPI and see what they have to say. Just to cover due diligence Taniwha, there is not currently a way to add energy drain to a tank is there? Like for a specific fuel type, I know that it supports boil off which works for these the cryotanks fuels for the purpose of balance, which I have set, but need to test. But I did not see in the tutorial of options a way to add energy drain to the tank. You don't need to add it or anything, I am just making sure that there isn't a hidden option .

[Biotronic]

Trying to make a plugin work with Modular Fuel Tanks (Goodspeed's TweakScale plugin to be specific), I encountered problems when updating to the version in Git - the namespaces are different. So now I have a workaround for RealFuels.ModuleFuelTanks and ModularFuelTanks.ModuleFuelTanks. Is there some reason why the version in OP has not been updated?

[taniwha]

Things seem to be rather shifty at the moment so I feel it might be best to wait until the code stabilizes. I have to check with NathanKell and Ialdabaoth as to what's going on.

[Whovian]

I've played with this great mod for quite a while, and now I'm trying to learn to mess about with its config files.

First of all, how would I go about adding a new resource for tanks to use? I'm noticing lines such as //!RESOURCE[LiquidFuel] {}; I'm really hoping I don't have to add a bunch of new ones of those in as they look like they're commented out.

Also, is there any way to set the fuel tanks to drain so that the center of mass moves in a different direction than conventionally as the fuel drains? I'm trying to add fuel tanks to wings, and if the fuel drains backwards, this leads to some wonky center-of-mass shenanigans.

EDIT: Okay, it seems MrWizerd's post on the previous page concerning Interstellar answers my first question. The second still stands; and if there isn't any way to get fuel to drain not-back, can I suggest that as a possible feature, assuming, of course, things such as that's possible (I've no idea if fuel draining into the back of parts is hardcoded into KSP,) the author's willing to do this, and that wouldn't result in a horrendously buggy mod?

Edited May 10, 2014 by Whovian

[NathanKell]

STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH will drain from the farthest tank available. If you want a different flow mode you'll need to rewrite Part.RequestResource and add it. However, for any given single part, the *part's* CoM doesn't change whether it's full or empty; a wing part with a given CoM will maintain that CoM. It's just if you have a stack of fuel tanks, the top one will drain first, shifting the *stack's* CoM down.

[Whovian]

Okay.

Ooooooooookay.

Thank you. I was under the impression it modeled the fuel as a cylinder whose volume is proportional to the amount of fuel remaining. Or something else of the sort for noncylindrical parts. Which would be wonky for wing stuff.

[Tiron]

As Discussed on IRC, MM .cfg for the B9 6m S2 fuselage:

@PART[B9_Cockpit_S2_Body_6m]
{
	//!RESOURCE[LiquidFuel] {}
	//!RESOURCE[Oxidizer] {}
	//!RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] {}
	//!RESOURCE[XenonGas] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleFuelTanks
		volume = 2760
		type = Structural
	}
}

Just to make it explicit, feel free to include it in the mod.