[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Ryland_k]

hey, have an issue here, I am running this mod (1.0.5 and using CKAN) and while all the features in the VAB (fuel selections and gui) seem to be working, my engines dont have limited ignitions or ullage simulation, even though the values for them are set to true in the realfuel settings file. In flight, when i rightclick on the engine, I get no info on fuel stability, and when I right click on a fuel tank all I get is amount of fuel remaining, no other metrics. Any idea whats going on? I am not using realism overhall, but i do have solver engines and comm. resource pack as requested by CKAN (and a bunch of other mods like FAR and mech jeb, among others, but nothing that I think should cause a conflict.) If it matters, I am also using real plume and real chute but they shouldent mess with it right?

 

If it helps, im on a new install of ksp with the following mods:

 

 * Active Texture Management - X86 - Aggressive 5-0

 * Chatterer 0.9.7

 * Connected Living Space 1.2.0.1

 * Deadly Reentry Continued v7.3.1

 * Distant Object Enhancement v1.6.4

 * Distant Object Enhancement default config v1.6.4

 * Environmental Visual Enhancements 1:EVE-1.05-4

 * Ferram Aerospace Research 3:0.15.5.4

 * Kerbal Alarm Clock v3.5.0.0

 * Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.1.4

 * KSP AVC 1.1.5.0

 * KW Rocketry 2.7.0-community

 * MechJeb 2 2.5.5.0

 * MechJeb Modules for FAR 1.0.0

 * MechJeb and Engineer for all! 1.2.0.0

 * Modular Rocket Systems LITE 1.10

 * Procedural Fairings v3.15

 * Procedural Fairings - For Everything! v0.1.1

 * Procedural Parts v1.1.11

 * RealChute Parachute Systems 1.3.2.6

 * Real Fuels rf-v10.8.1

 * Real Plume 2:v10.4.9

 * Real Plume - Stock Configs v0.1

 * Real Fuels: Stockalike RF Configs v3.0.0

 * Ven's Stock Part Revamp v1.9.0

 * Crossfeed Enabler v3.3

 * Module Manager 2.6.13

 * Environmental Visual Enhancements - Config files 1:EVE-1.05-4

 * ModularFlightIntegrator 1.1.2.0

 * KW Rocketry - Community Fixes 0.4.2

 * Firespitter Core v7.1.5

 * Community Resource Pack 0.4.8.0

 * Solver Engines plugin v1.14

 * SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin 2.6.9.0

Edited December 19, 2015 by Ryland_k
Added modlist

[Dermeister]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2015 at 3:06 PM, NathanKell said:

@Dermeister open (your KSP folder), the GameData, then RealFuels, then Resources.

Delete the ResourceHsps.cfg file

Done!

So I've done that.... can you do something smilar to disable ulage? like the whole stable not stable thing?

[NathanKell]

@Ryland_k sounds like RealPlume is still breaking things. Make sure you're on the absolutely latest version of it?

@Dermeister open RealFuels/RealSettings.cfg and scroll down to the bottom, where it talks about ullage. Set ullage simulation to False instead of True.

[Ryland_k]

51 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

 

Should be, as long as ckan isnt lying, im on 10.4.9 EDIT: Yeah, realplume was breaking it, good call, thanks! Any idea why though, I am using the latest release, so I'm not too sure why it would be doing that. Also, I am using stock configs with real plume, maybe theres something there?

Edited December 19, 2015 by Ryland_k
updated info

[Kerbal01]

The tank guide linked in the second post, it's link is broken.

[NathanKell]

@Ryland_k someone on the RF Stockalike thread might know; it was a longstanding issue that I thought @Felger fixed but either he did not, or the current release was never updated to include the fix, or the issue is in the RF Stockalike Plume Configs. The issue is that the plume configs set the engine to ModuleEnginesFX, whereas if it's already ModuleEnginesRF it should be left as such.

[Adik3714]

Hi,

can anyone tell me please please, how real fuels do with KSP Interstellar mod? Are they compatible by default? And yes I am lazy to find it out. I've searched trough this topic and read about some issues but no final statement about compatibility. Eventually where are the limits?

[Ryland_k]

16 minutes ago, Adik3714 said:

Hi,

can anyone tell me please please, how real fuels do with KSP Interstellar mod? Are they compatible by default? And yes I am lazy to find it out. I've searched trough this topic and read about some issues but no final statement about compatibility. Eventually where are the limits?

Why dont you just install them both and see? Also, @NathanKell im getting a bunch of kw rocketry engines in my fuel tanks tab when i run realfuels, I know this used to be an issue, but it looks like it might have found it's way back in, just a heads up.

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, Adik3714 said:

Hi,

can anyone tell me please please, how real fuels do with KSP Interstellar mod? Are they compatible by default? And yes I am lazy to find it out. I've searched trough this topic and read about some issues but no final statement about compatibility. Eventually where are the limits?

both try to modify fuel tanks so there is a real possibility of conflict. 

1 hour ago, Ryland_k said:

Why dont you just install them both and see? Also, @NathanKell im getting a bunch of kw rocketry engines in my fuel tanks tab when i run realfuels, I know this used to be an issue, but it looks like it might have found it's way back in, just a heads up.

KW issue really.  RF does not change the category and KW is using propulsion which used to include engines and tanks

[TasDev]

Hello,

My engines don't have sound or fire animation when working.

I am using KSP 1.05 with the following mods:

 

AeroGUI (AeroGUI v3)
CapCom - Mission Control On The Go (CapCom 1.4)
Chatterer (Chatterer 0.9.7)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 0.4.8.0)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.9.1)
Contract Reward Modifier (ContractRewardModifier 2.1)
Contract Window + (ContractsWindowPlus 5.5)
Crossfeed Enabler (CrossFeedEnabler v3.3)
Custom Barn Kit (CustomBarnKit 1.1.3.0)
Deadly Reentry Continued (DeadlyReentry v7.3.1)
Docking Port Alignment Indicator (DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.2)
Environmental Visual Enhancements (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 1:EVE-1.05-4)
Environmental Visual Enhancements - Config files (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements-HR 1:EVE-1.05-4)
Ferram Aerospace Research (FerramAerospaceResearch 3:0.15.5.4)
Final Frontier (FinalFrontier 0.8.10-1609)
Firespitter Core (FirespitterCore v7.1.5)
Firespitter Resources config (FirespitterResourcesConfig v7.1.5)
ForScience Continued! (ForScienceContinued 1.1.0)
G-Effects (G-Effects 0.3.1)
Heat Management (HeatManagement 0.26.3)
Kerbal Aircraft Expansion (KAX) (KerbalAircraftExpansion KAX_v2.6.1.0)
Kerbal Attachment System (KAS 0.5.5)
Kerbal Construction Time (KerbalConstructionTime 1.2.3)
Kerbal Flight Data (KerbalFlightData R19)
Kerbal Inventory System (KIS 1.2.3)
Kerbal Stats (KerbalStats 2.0.0)
KerboKatzUtilities (KerboKatzUtilities 1.2.11)
KSP AVC (KSP-AVC 1.1.5.0)
MechJeb 2 (MechJeb2 2.5.5.0)
MechJeb Modules for FAR (MechJebFARExt 1.0.0)
ModularFlightIntegrator (ModularFlightIntegrator 1.1.2.0)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 2.6.13)
Navball Docking Alignment Indicator (NavballDockingIndicator v7)
RasterPropMonitor (RasterPropMonitor v0.24.1)
RasterPropMonitor Core (RasterPropMonitor-Core v0.24.1)
Real Fuels (RealFuels rf-v10.8.1)
Real Fuels: Stockalike RF Configs (RFStockalike v3.0.0)
RealChute Parachute Systems (RealChute 1.3.2.6)
RemoteTech (RemoteTech v1.6.9)
SCANsat (SCANsat v14.5)
Solver Engines plugin (SolverEngines v1.14)
StageRecovery (StageRecovery 1.6.0)
TAC Life Support (TACLS) (TACLS v0.11.2)
TAC Life Support (TACLS) - stock config (TACLS-Config-Stock v0.11.2)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1.7.10)
Unmanned before Manned (UnmannedBeforeManned 1.0.2)
Waypoint Manager (WaypointManager 2.4.4)
Wider Contracts App (WiderContractsApp 1.2.1)
WildBlueTools (WildBlueTools 1.0.25)

 

Could you, please, tell me what may be wrong.

Thank you

 

[blowfish]

8 minutes ago, TasDev said:

Hello,

My engines don't have sound or fire animation when working.

I am using KSP 1.05 with the following mods:

RealPlume is a requirement for RF now (HotRockets might also work but it hasn't been updated in quite a while).

[speedwaystar]

@Ryland_k

On 12/19/2015 at 4:19 PM, Ryland_k said:

hey, have an issue here, I am running this mod (1.0.5 and using CKAN) and while all the features in the VAB (fuel selections and gui) seem to be working, my engines dont have limited ignitions or ullage simulation, even though the values for them are set to true in the realfuel settings file.

the fix for this is (or was) hidden somewhere in the RealPlume forum thread. i just looked for it and failed to find it, but luckily (although i'm not using RealFuels atm), i still have a copy of the ModuleManager fix:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEnginesRF]]:BEFORE[RealPlume]
{
   @MODULE[ModuleEnginesRF]
   {
      %RFConfig = TRUE
   }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]:HAS[#RFConfig[TRUE]]]:FINAL
{
   @MODULE[ModuleEngines*],*:HAS[#RFConfig[TRUE]]
   {
      @name = ModuleEnginesRF
   }
}

enjoy!

[Requia]

Is there any way to calculate how much hydrolox per day is lost in cryogenic tanks? Gotta resort to fuel cells for my moon trips and I'm not sure how much extra to pack.

[Starwaster]

57 minutes ago, Requia said:

Is there any way to calculate how much hydrolox per day is lost in cryogenic tanks? Gotta resort to fuel cells for my moon trips and I'm not sure how much extra to pack.

Use service module tanks for the parts making the actual trip to the moon.  That's what you should store fuel cell LH2/LOX in. 

(There are currently  no technical limitations on using that tank type anywhere for any amount but realistically it's only suitable for smaller tanks)

[Requia]

16 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

Use service module tanks for the parts making the actual trip to the moon.  That's what you should store fuel cell LH2/LOX in. 

(There are currently  no technical limitations on using that tank type anywhere for any amount but realistically it's only suitable for smaller tanks)

That sounded like nonsense, but I checked the configs and it it has insulation of .0001m*K/W? What magic material is this? I'm guessing losses should be negligible for a lunar trip?

[TrooperCooper]

On 15.12.2015 at 9:06 PM, NathanKell said:

@Dermeister open (your KSP folder), the GameData, then RealFuels, then Resources.

Delete the ResourceHsps.cfg file

Done!

 

Trying to get rid of boiloff here myself and I did the above. Still, boiloff remains, even though the ResourceHsps.cfg file has been deleted and I also cleared out my MM cache.

On top of that, I also tried the old...

Quote

@TANK_DEFINITION[*]:FINAL
{
    @TANK,*
    {
        @loss_rate = 0
    }
}

... thinking it might revert to the old system. But it didnt help either.

Anyone know what to do?

I really wish there was a "true" / "false" option for this in the settings cfg...

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, Requia said:

That sounded like nonsense, but I checked the configs and it it has insulation of .0001m*K/W? What magic material is this? I'm guessing losses should be negligible for a lunar trip?

Yes, it is a magic material called 'vapor cooled shielding' which is (more or less) a high tech version of a thermos bottle. That's essentially what they used on Apollo in the service module for the LOX and H2 tanks.

The conductivity is expressed as W/(m K) btw. (watts per meter thickness per degree Kelvin). 

[Requia]

18 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Yes, it is a magic material called 'vapor cooled shielding' which is (more or less) a high tech version of a thermos bottle. That's essentially what they used on Apollo in the service module for the LOX and H2 tanks.

That was only done on the launchpad. Vacuum insulation is a freebie in space (assuming you keep hold of the aeroshell at least). It should be modeled on top of ordinary insulation.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Requia

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Requia said:

That was only done on the launchpad. Vacuum insulation is a freebie in space (assuming you keep hold of the aeroshell at least). It should be modeled on top of ordinary insulation.

I don't agree. There's no need for separate modeling and it can be approximated just fine in the existing system. I only need to know the Q between tank surface to interior.

[Requia]

 

53 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

I don't agree. There's no need for separate modeling and it can be approximated just fine in the existing system. I only need to know the Q between tank surface to interior.

You don't have the right q if you don't consider the vacuum gap/air gap though (on the other hand even the cryogenic tanks used the vapor pressure system on the pad, so modeling everything as vacuum is mostly accurate).

The magic material was apparently alternating layers of double aluminized mylar and nylon mesh, vacuum chamber tested at 6x10^-6 BTU/Hr/ft^2*F@1 inch (I had to convert this one to metric should be 9x10^{-6 W/m*K}, I can't find the actual insulation thickness but the tests were 1-2 inches). Not in NASAs insulation guide for some reason, but dug it out of a journal.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Requia

[Kerbal01]

any word on the missing tutorial?

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, DarthVader said:

any word on the missing tutorial?

Nope, still missing. if you see it, please tell it to come home and all is forgiven. 

[Requia]

The other thing to consider is that for fuel cell purposes boil isn't loss, as long as it boils slower than what you need to make the gas for the fuel cells... that's more complicated than just thermal modelling though.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Requia

[Starwaster]

4 hours ago, Requia said:

The other thing to consider is that for fuel cell purposes boil isn't loss, as long as it boils slower than what you need to make the gas for the fuel cells... that's more complicated than just thermal modelling though.

Except that it is loss because the system doesn't produce a gaseous version of the resource and fuel cell consumption is going to outstrip  boiloff loss anyway.

[Requia]

4 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Except that it is loss because the system doesn't produce a gaseous version of the resource and fuel cell consumption is going to outstrip  boiloff loss anyway.

Then there shouldn't be boiloff loss. Given that this is a *realism* mod its a bug.

 

Hmm, is there a way to disable boiloff for service modules only?