[1.8+] Real Fuels

[michal.don]

@Phineas Freak @Starwaster

Thanks for the clarification guys. So if I understand correctly, the "service module" tanks should be better for longer time of storage, and the "cryogenic" tanks for Hydrolox stages fired in the first few hours of the flight, because of their lower mass? Or is there another aspect that I am missing?

Michal.don

[Phineas Freak]

@michal.don yep, something like that! IIRC the "ServiceModule" tanks were specifically crafted to support the Apollo - style fuel cell system so that is what someone would need to use if the aim is to use fuel cells. As @Starwaster also pointed (thank you for correcting me) the "Cryogenic" tanks are not exactly your average Hydrolox tankage (more like a DRA 5.0 Copernicus MTV propellant tank).

[michal.don]

Yeah, Although I could supply the EC by solar panels, I am, for role playing reasons, trying the Apollo approach. Thanks a lot,

Michal.don

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@michal.don yep, something like that! IIRC the "ServiceModule" tanks were specifically crafted to support the Apollo - style fuel cell system so that is what someone would need to use if the aim is to use fuel cells. As @Starwaster also pointed (thank you for correcting me) the "Cryogenic" tanks are not exactly your average Hydrolox tankage (more like a DRA 5.0 Copernicus MTV propellant tank).

The thing is that I don't think Cryogenic tank type ever really had good real world examples given for it. And it's actually lets too much heat through to be MTV tanks which have 60-90 layers of MLI depending on the specific presentation. (the goal of the Copernicus design was to reduce heat leakage on a 22mx10m tank to 78 watts while in LEO)

[Phineas Freak]

Hmm, is it worth it to consider adding an additional tank type for situations like that? Granted, we now have radiators that can keep the cryogens in a liquid state for far longer than before but having the option to minimize the number of them sounds attractive.

I assume that it is easy to rig up an almost "ZeroBoiloff" tank type for testing. How many layers of MLI is the "Cryogenic" tank supposed to have?

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Hmm, is it worth it to consider adding an additional tank type for situations like that? Granted, we now have radiators that can keep the cryogens in a liquid state for far longer than before but having the option to minimize the number of them sounds attractive.

I assume that it is easy to rig up an almost "ZeroBoiloff" tank type for testing. How many layers of MLI is the "Cryogenic" tank supposed to have?

Totally guessing but like 20-40?

i think DRA 5 is 90 but that varies by specific proposal. 

[DJ Reonic]

Is this mod usable in 1.2.1 at all, or do I need to use 1.1.3 to be able to use RF?

[Phineas Freak]

38 minutes ago, DJ Reonic said:

Is this mod usable in 1.2.1 at all, or do I need to use 1.1.3 to be able to use RF?

No, it won't work with KSP 1.2.1.

[InsaneDruid]

Is it possible to define 2 (separate, and different) tanks per model?

Having two ModuleFuelTanks seems to have problems, as only the contents of one tank are shown, and if one is full, the other one shows negative capacity etc.

[JadeOfMaar]

Hello, all. I'm part of the dev team for Galileo's Planet Pack and I've seen some interest in LqdNitrogen as the pack has a moon with Nitrogen for its crust and oceans. Can anyone help me as to provide a list of the minable resources portion of RealFuels and which of them exist in atmosphere, crust and oceans?

[COL.R.Neville]

if you look at the community category and resource pack i think it list the resources in there and who takes care of them. 

[John FX]

On 25/10/2016 at 7:33 AM, Phineas Freak said:

Hmm, is it worth it to consider adding an additional tank type for situations like that? Granted, we now have radiators that can keep the cryogens in a liquid state for far longer than before but having the option to minimize the number of them sounds attractive.

I assume that it is easy to rig up an almost "ZeroBoiloff" tank type for testing. How many layers of MLI is the "Cryogenic" tank supposed to have?

It would be nice if one of the later nodes in the tech tree contained either a very efficient radiator or better insulated tanks (or both)

[Starwaster]

 

On 11/28/2016 at 0:56 PM, John FX said:

It would be nice if one of the later nodes in the tech tree contained either a very efficient radiator or better insulated tanks (or both)

Now that we have part upgradeability, better insulation could happen, but radiators are another issue. If you want radiators that can handle cryo resources then you need to install RO or Heat Pumps. (RO makes the necessary changes to the stock radiator part that allows it cool parts down to the level required for cryogenics)

 

[John FX]

10 hours ago, Starwaster said:

RO makes the necessary changes to the stock radiator part that allows it cool parts down to the level required for cryogenics

I only ever use cryo in RO so that`s all right then.

[Adik3714]

Hi, I really hate to ask but is there any progress towards 1.2.1(2) compatibility? 

[blowfish]

23 minutes ago, Adik3714 said:

Hi, I really hate to ask but is there any progress towards 1.2.1(2) compatibility? 

It's mostly done, actually.  Are you using RF Stockalike?

[Adik3714]

1 hour ago, blowfish said:

It's mostly done, actually.  Are you using RF Stockalike?

Yes, I like to play RF Stocklike with stock size rss. RO is pointless for me. So can I (we) expect any official or dev release soon?  Thank you for your response. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Adik3714

[blowfish]

6 hours ago, Adik3714 said:

Yes, I like to play RF Stocklike with stock size rss. RO is pointless for me. So can I (we) expect any official or dev release soon?  Thank you for your response. 

Should be able to have something out pretty soon.  I think all the critical 1.2 changes have been made.  There are some improvements that are now possible but they aren't strictly necessary.

[Kotagi]

Can engineers reset ignitions? 

[JJJacksonTyler]

20 hours ago, Kotagi said:

Can engineers reset ignitions? 

Probably not. The reasoning behind finite number of ignitions is the fact that the use of a rocket engine most likely destroys its inner parts and workings (over time i.e. a 5-min burn). As handy as engineers are, rusted metal can't be fixed with a wrench. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by JJJacksonTyler

[ColKlonk2]

Has SpaceX actually reused a stage yet...  

I bet Mars is a good story...!!

[Eklykti]

17 minutes ago, ColKlonk2 said:

Has SpaceX actually reused a stage yet...

SpaceX did static burns of returned stages, and that were successful, but their engines are specifically designed for reuse, which is not the case for most other engines.

[Starman4308]

59 minutes ago, JJJacksonTyler said:

Probably not. The reasoning behind finite number of ignitions is the fact that the use of a rocket engine most likely destroys its inner parts and workings (over time i.e. a 5-min burn). As handy as engineers are, rusted metal can't be fixed with a wrench. 

For most engines, it's probably much less wear-and-tear on the engine, it's probably just difficulties in starting the turbopumps and igniting the propellants. Not all mixes are hypergolic; the cryogenics (hydrolox, kerolox, etc) require some external ignition source, and that is what is usually limited. For first-stage engines, there's also the mechanism used to spin up the turbopump to start delivering the propellant, which may be single-use.

Granted, with certain propellants (particularly kerosene), there may be buildup of residue, and very-high-performance engines might simply wear out too quickly, but it's not too hard to imagine designing something like a hydrolox engine which just needs to be topped off with hypergolic starter fluid every so often.

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Starman4308 said:

For most engines, it's probably much less wear-and-tear on the engine, it's probably just difficulties in starting the turbopumps and igniting the propellants. Not all mixes are hypergolic; the cryogenics (hydrolox, kerolox, etc) require some external ignition source, and that is what is usually limited. For first-stage engines, there's also the mechanism used to spin up the turbopump to start delivering the propellant, which may be single-use.

Granted, with certain propellants (particularly kerosene), there may be buildup of residue, and very-high-performance engines might simply wear out too quickly, but it's not too hard to imagine designing something like a hydrolox engine which just needs to be topped off with hypergolic starter fluid every so often.

Pressurants are another factor. The tank may need re-pressurization prior to ignition. A good example being the Saturn V's S-IVB stage (third stage) which had enough helium for three ignitions. The engine itself could have been capable of more but the stage only had resources for 3.

[spacegeek37]

Hi. I'm new to the forums, but I did notice that Real Fuels is an amazing mod. However, I can't get it to work. I hate to post simple problems like this, but I have been working on it for a while. I was wondering if anybody had more in depth information on how to install the mod, because I have been trying it on 1.1.3 for a long time with FRStockalike with no luck.

Edited December 13, 2016 by spacegeek37