Its time... for a KSP community alternative for fans by fans of KSP!

[inigma]

SimCity has them, Civilization has them, and even Minecraft has them:

Community developed portals.

I think its time to discuss this. It's time to form a group, a team, to develop and maintain a KSP community alternative. Why?

- The community needs a reliable Spaceport alternative. All of our eggs are in the Spaceport basket, and then scattered everywhere else. Its time for a reliable alternative/second central repository of craft files. Spaceport 2 will be fine and a godsend, but the community will still need an alternative for the unexpected.

- The community needs a downtime forum, and a place to post opinions outside of this forum. (Not that this post in anyway implies a complaint or desire to split or call for an exodus of content from this awesome forum here and its most excellent moderation team.)

- The community needs a place to explore different means of collaborating which can scale popular ideas quickly so that Squad doesn't have to devote valuable resources managing such ideas that may or may not be successful.

- The community needs a dedicated multiplayer server system.

It's time to discuss your ideas and develop a plan for a KSP community alternative. This thread is NOT about leaving this community. This thread is about complementing it.

Some questions to answer:

-Do you think a community alternative is needed at this point?

-What else do think the community needs in such a portal?

-What shall we call it?

-Should we keep it simple?

-Who may be interested in helping to manage it or moderate it?

-Who has resources they'd be willing to donate to pull this off?

-Who has the skills to make this happen?

-What applications should we use?

Now before anyone rushes off to snap up a domain or start programming a site to get started, lets talk ideas. Let's do this together. Your suggestions are most appreciated. What are your thought and answers to the questions above?

Edited January 5, 2014 by inigma

[zynar]

Some questions to answer:

-Do you think a community alternative is needed at this point? Not Really

The rest don't really apply . Sorry just my .02

I think a better way to search for mods would be nice but mostly I want spaceport 2.

A dedicated Multiplayer server sounds like a great idea.

[Xaiier]

Do you think a community alternative is needed at this point? No.

EDIT: I'll actually bother to explain why.

First off, the KSP community is and always had been fairly exclusive and mature, due to the nature of the game. Theres no reason to create another one outside of Squad's jurisdiction no matter how much you want to childishly whine about resources.

Spaceport works fine as is, combined with the forums. No reason to split up the things into separate groups unnecessarily.

IDK what your even talking about with "collaboration"

Multiplayer communities already exist around the few mods that allow it through things set up by them. When official multiplayer comes out, then maybe we can decide if a system is required. As is, we don't have any idea how it's going to work or if it will even be necessary.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Xaiier

[Jug head]

We should have one in case of an emergency like what happened in April I don't mean the revert I mean the no forum weeks

[stupid_chris]

"The community needs a downtime forum, and a place to post opinions apart from Squad moderation." Not sure I understand what you mean here. If you imply that the moderation team censors stuff going against squad, you're quite wrong.

[inigma]

"The community needs a downtime forum, and a place to post opinions apart from Squad moderation." Not sure I understand what you mean here. If you imply that the moderation team censors stuff going against squad, you're quite wrong.

Not all. Let's replace Squad with "this forum". A place to express opinions outside of this forum.

-Do you think a community alternative is needed at this point?

Yes.

-What else do think the community needs in such a portal?

already listed. focus on an alternate spaceport first.

-Should we keep it simple?

YES!

-Who may be interested in managing it?

I might be able to commit some initial startup time, but managing it might require someone more dedicated.

-Who has resources they'd be willing to donate to pull this off?

I can donate the purchase of a domain and initial web hosting.

-Who has the skills to make this happen?

I know a fair bit of using Wordpress, php, and the basics of css, html, etc.

Edited January 3, 2014 by sal_vager

[Masked Turk]

I don't think we *need* any of the things you mentioned, considering they're all provided for us and will be for the next few years.

[relin]

I still don't understand why you feel we need a second community apart from this one. Nor do I understand why you'd want a second community when you also say you don't want anyone to leave this one. I've never noticed any serious problems with downtime, nor is anything really wrong with Spaceport from what I've experienced.

As far as multiplayer, I can only agree with what others have said: there already ARE multiplayer groups to be found here, and until stock multiplayer is patched in, I don't see how we could possibly do any better than what already exists.

[6.forty]

Do you think a community alternative is needed at this point?

No. Community fragmentation would be inevitable. The only other KSP communities that would have a purpose and peaceful coexistence would be for individual mods of sufficient scale to warrant a its own community.

[SkyRender]

I don't personally think that fragmenting the central KSP community is a particularly good idea. Splits have nearly happened in the past, but we've stayed cohesive. Having a place for disenchanted users to gather in a sort of "private club" would encourage such a near-split to genuinely happen. There's already a number of KSP-related forums out there on other sites for people to congregate around if they feel they need something different than the official forums. As for a repository outside of SpacePort, that's at the discretion of anyone who feels they want to shoulder the expense of a redundant service.

[SkyHook]

Nope. I don't think mods necessarily censor us. I see plenty of commentary that speaks out against the direction of the game that does not get censored. I kind of like the forums and their inclusive nature. Rules sometimes restrict, but they also protect. That's more important sometimes.

[Frostiken]

Not sure I understand what you mean here. If you imply that the moderation team censors stuff going against squad, you're quite wrong.

lol, I have an inbox full of infractions for the most asinine things that suggests you just creatively interpret rules when you wish, and enforce some outrageously absurd ones.

I can use the odd obscenity (which is censored anyway so I don't know why anyone cares) in any capacity on any forum, but on multiple occasions, I had entire major posts entirely wiped out because I said 'ass' once in a thread critical of the devs. I think one was as innocuous as saying 'kick ass' and the entire wall-of-text post got nuked within a minute and deleted in its entirety. Note that 'ass' is not even auto-censored.

I definitely have one or two in here that specifically refers to special rules protecting the devs. Furthermore, after criticizing decisions made by the developers, I have one in here that specifically refers to a specially moderated "Curious George" usergroup because you accused me of being "just a troll". Because you wouldn't want it to get out that anyone who disagrees with the direction this game is going gets handwaved off into your special censorship bin or anything.

I ended up with a 10-point infraction for making a post that voiced support in an admittedly cheap fashion with a 'THIS ^' post... but it was the same 10 point infraction I got for referring to the developers a bunch of clowns - under the rule that I was 'harassing other users'.

I wouldn't be surprised if this post gets nuked for an obscure rule regarding 'discussing moderator actions'. Because that wouldn't be the definition of irony.

I got a negative rep comment from a mod for 'being argumentative'. It's not that I care about rep, but seriously? Because I don't agree with the circlejerk? I would downrep him with something sarcastic but I'm 95% sure they would flood my inbox with obscure warnings again.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Frostiken

[Masked Turk]

lol, I have an inbox full of infractions for the most asinine things that suggests you just creatively interpret rules when you wish and enforce some outrageously absurd ones.

I definitely have one or two in here that specifically refers to special rules protecting the devs.

Not that the community here is much better. I got a negative rep comment for 'being argumentative'. It's not that I care about rep, but seriously? Because I don't agree with the circlejerk?

Perhaps you need to work on your diplomatic skills then, rather than suggest everyone jump ship with you.

[Frostiken]

Perhaps you need to work on your diplomatic skills then, rather than suggest everyone jump ship with you.

Why jump out of a perfectly good ship when it's the captain who's steering it into the icebergs? Squad has shown over the last few months that they don't care whatsoever what anyone thinks after they've already got their money. Pretty sure 'resources' is still the #1 feature we're looking for, but it got backburnered twice and then completely canceled so they can spend the next 14 months putting in a useless multiplayer system to suck in new players to justify spending 14 months on a useless multiplayer system. Look at the drama and damage control Harvester had to do after telling everyone that the science system is going to stay dumbed-down and simple because it's for 'new players', despite the fact that 'old players' outnumber new players by probably 12:1.

The 180 the devs have done from their approach to the game a year and a half ago is tragic.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Frostiken

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Inigma, listen. Until KSP has over 1 million players, this is good enough. Moderators listen, everyone is polite, and the Devs even put some time into here. We don't need a downtime forum, as for we have learnt about what was wrong, and fixed it. The forums have a craft area, and mod area. Thats our backup

[Frostiken]

Inigma, listen. Until KSP has over 1 million players, this is good enough. Moderators listen, everyone is polite, and the Devs even put some time into here. We don't need a downtime forum, as for we have learnt about what was wrong, and fixed it. The forums have a craft area, and mod area. Thats our backup

If he's referring to a better mod resource, this isn't 'good enough'. There's enough active mods at this point that mods that were updated yesterday can end up buried beneath page 4 within 24 hours. It's a pain to find out when mods are updated since half the developers don't bother to put the updated dates in the title.

And those are only the big name mods. There's a TON of lower-key mods that deserve attention, but are buried beneath idiots spamming the B9 thread asking for updates thirty times a day.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Frostiken

[Sirine]

Simple. no.

[SkyRender]

Why jump out of a perfectly good ship when it's the captain who's steering it into the icebergs? Squad has shown over the last few months that they don't care whatsoever what anyone thinks after they've already got their money. Pretty sure 'resources' is still the #1 feature we're looking for, but it got backburnered twice and then completely canceled so they can spend the next 14 months putting in a useless multiplayer system to suck in new players to justify spending 14 months on a useless multiplayer system. Look at the drama and damage control Harvester had to do after telling everyone that the science system is going to stay dumbed-down and simple because it's for 'new players', despite the fact that 'old players' outnumber new players by probably 12:1.

The 180 the devs have done from their approach to the game a year and a half ago is tragic.

I think I can see why you are getting moderated, Frostiken, and the reason is simple enough: you lack civility. You don't necessarily have to agree with what is being said, but if you must protest, it is advisable that you refrain from such churlish actions as finger-pointing, insulting, and otherwise flaming other users. A bit of discretion goes a long way when you want to be taken seriously.

[RSwordsman]

As far as I've seen, this forum is excellent for all things regarding the KSP player base. I can see third-party sites for modders or clans/companies where players organize construction and operations, but another forum that does everything this one does is silly.

[Aphox]

I got a negative rep comment from a mod for 'being argumentative'. It's not that I care about rep, but seriously? Because I don't agree with the circlejerk? I would downrep him with something sarcastic but I'm 95% sure they would flood my inbox with obscure warnings again.

I was going to address this sooner, but the forums kind of exploded, so I'll address it now. I'm not comfortable with the zealousness of some of the moderators, and we do try to avoid these situations as often as possible. As much as I hate to use the cliche "we're human" excuse, we do make mistakes quite often and we can't do everything perfectly all the time and have eyes on every thread. The reason some of our methods may seem ridiculous is due to trying to maintain continuity and consistency in our actions.

That said, I'm addressing this publicly so that the thread stays going in the right direction. Let's keep this thread away from this subject, as the OP has already stated that his topics were not targeted at the moderation team. If you have complaints, there's a sub-forum to post them in and staff members who are more than willing to talk it out in a respectful and civil manner. I'm online often and am always on IRC if anyone needs to talk about issues they may be having.

So please, have at the discussion in OP, but keep it that, and not a staff-bashing moshpit.

Edit: My feelings on these subjects are pretty much reflected in this thread. Fragmenting the community is a bad idea. I think it's ironic that the forums went down while I was typing it out, but today's forum explosion was not on Squad's end as far as we can tell.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Aphox

[Guest]

Do you think a community alternative is needed at this point?

Nope. These forums are pretty good, aside from some of the afore-mentioned dumb moderation, which is still mostly bearable (my favorite is when some mod claims "we have it good here" when every mod everywhere claims the same ). Anyway, about the only real problem we've got is some issues with information being released elsewhere and some user having to bring it to these official forums instead of SQUAD just releasing it here first.

[boxman]

Do you think a community alternative is needed at this point? No.

EDIT: I'll actually bother to explain why.

First off, the KSP community is and always had been fairly exclusive and mature, due to the nature of the game. Theres no reason to create another one outside of Squad's jurisdiction no matter how much you want to childishly whine about resources.

Spaceport works fine as is, combined with the forums. No reason to split up the things into separate groups unnecessarily.

IDK what your even talking about with "collaboration"

Multiplayer communities already exist around the few mods that allow it through things set up by them. When official multiplayer comes out, then maybe we can decide if a system is required. As is, we don't have any idea how it's going to work or if it will even be necessary.

How can you even say that spaceport works fine?? Have you ever tried the search function?? Even if you know what you are looking for it will give a bunch of random craft files or mods that are not even remotely related to the one you are searching for. This is the case even with the popular mods.

Might as well just use google then like I have to do now.

Even squad themselves is unhappy with spaceport and call it a mess. I really hope they get a replacement soon as it has been taking way too long already.

[boxman]

I don't think we *need* any of the things you mentioned, considering they're all provided for us and will be for the next few years.

New spaceport is needed now and has been for quite some time. A new spaceport being few years away just does not cut it.

[Vanamonde]

There's a Kerbal subreddit which is pretty active. I don't like the format, but I sometimes poke around there.

[Duke23]

I am pretty new here so my opinion may or may not matter but I don't really see the need for an alternative forum. I wouldn't be opposed to one that would only be used in the case that this one goes down but not a permanent parallel community. I agree with others it would only cause division. The subreddit is probably the closest thing needed and could get out any information or links that would need to spread (see next statement)... It'd be nice to have a centralized backup of all the maintained / up to date mods out there but I feel like if something did happen that caused Spaceport to be unusable, a new server run by users would spring up pretty quickly.

In other words I think if there's a problem it will take care of itself when it becomes necessary and I haven't personally seen problems here with unreasonable censorship and such that would make people feel the need to go anywhere else. It's nice having everything right here.