[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

[GentleHeaven]

Question. How would I install a stock RPM mod with this with the stock screens for RPM? is there any special set procedures for it?

I ask as id love to have my old cockpits back

[helldiver]

Question. How would I install a stock RPM mod with this with the stock screens for RPM? is there any special set procedures for it?

I ask as id love to have my old cockpits back

If you'd like RPM screens and MFDs on all your stock command pods, just install RPM as normal.

If you mean changing the KSO's RPM screens, that's not possible without some modding experience.

[TeeGee]

Rocket with lift ability = KSO is 25850 kerbal dollars.

ALL of it is expendable rocket.

I don't understand how a partially reusable space vehicle with the lifting capability of a shuttle can't possibly be CHEAPER in the long run than an expendable rocket.

In KSP world, the KSO is initially more expensive at 47350 vs expendable rocket 25850 (both minus payloads). So for the KSO to justify its cost, all it needs to do is launch TWICE. The LRB and Orbiter come back, only the orange tank is destroyed. For the expendable system, NOTHING comes back. Not a very justifiable expense if you ask me.

The cost far outweighs the expense of using expendable rockets as a payload delivery system, at least in Kerbal world.

[Virtualgenius]

The maintenance and turn around times for the shuttle was a huge cost where a semi reusable rocket can be turned around reasonable quickly, low tech vs high tech, low tech wins

[SaSquatch]

Rocket with lift ability = KSO is 25850 kerbal dollars.

ALL of it is expendable rocket.

I don't understand how a partially reusable space vehicle with the lifting capability of a shuttle can't possibly be CHEAPER in the long run than an expendable rocket.

In KSP world, the KSO is initially more expensive at 47350 vs expendable rocket 25850 (both minus payloads). So for the KSO to justify its cost, all it needs to do is launch TWICE. The LRB and Orbiter come back, only the orange tank is destroyed. For the expendable system, NOTHING comes back. Not a very justifiable expense if you ask me.

The cost far outweighs the expense of using expendable rockets as a payload delivery system, at least in Kerbal world.

That was a problem with the real shuttle program. The math becomes dependent on the turnaround costs and maintenance vs the regularity of flights. Both aren't issues in Kerbal.

**edit** plus nobody has balanced or can balance the cost figures since Currency hasn't been implemented in KSP yet... nor does anyone outside of squad know what this system may actually function like. So the cost numbers are completely arbitrary.

Edited March 29, 2014 by SaSquatch

[Virtualgenius]

I am actually looking forward to the contract system and costings you will have to mix it up to get the best mix of cost and capability

[TeeGee]

I am actually looking forward to the contract system and costings you will have to mix it up to get the best mix of cost and capability

I wonder if squad should put maintenance costs into the game, especially for SSTO's. The more complicated the vehicle, the higher the maintenance costs and the longer the turnaround.

If that is put into play, the player may be forced to use simpler low tech rockets to get things into orbit vs using high tech ones that are reusable.

[TeeGee]

The maintenance and turn around times for the shuttle was a huge cost where a semi reusable rocket can be turned around reasonable quickly, low tech vs high tech, low tech wins

Turnaround time for a space shuttle was 2 months. The problem was the number of people required to work on the shuttle during that time... which I believe was around 9,000 workers.

The only things that were maintained were the thermal tiles and SSME engines. Everything else was ready to go, she just needed fuel and a crew.

[helldiver]

I was going to say, in the Real World the SRBs didn't just come back down and were honky-dory ready to be refilled with Black Powder and stuck to the side of the EFT and lit with a match again the next day. Yes I said Black Powder...

It took months to get them ready again and they were pretty much rebuilt. I wouldn't really call them re-usable perse. The orbiter itself was completely rebuilt almost and inspected thoroughly. Blown off or damaged tiles replaced (each one being very expensive), shoot even the tires were replaced each launch (main tires every other launch?).

and finally... you seem to continue to ignore so here it is in bold:

None of those numbers mean anything. We made them up, Nazari just made up what ever numbers he saw on the stock config files he started with. I looked at them and said "looks good".

They were made in a way so that it's affordable and balanced to any other game part. None of the game parts follow any realistic cost structure. They are all balanced to the metagame not to realistic costs. Are they even used currently outside career mode?

None of the game parts use realistic numbers since the meta isn't about an economical space program simulation. In other words you're not playing "Realistic Space Program Account Manager". Managing grant money, public funds, balancing them, trying to get approval for budgets or any of that isn't part of it. Neither are contract negotiations, bidding, political interest or any of that. There are mods out there that kind of simulate some of that which is really cool, but they too use the stock numbers on most parts.

The only things that were maintained were the thermal tiles and SSME engines. Everything else was ready to go, she just needed fuel and a crew.

You mean the KSO? Yeah that's about right for the KSO. Although the KSO is supposed to pay for itself after 10 launches.

If you mean the real shuttles, not at all. Just go on YouTube and watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7dDSM3ZjA or any other video about Space shuttle preparation. It took months, years even. Once of the reasons the STS missions aren't consecutive was because some of them weren't even ready on time.

The entire shuttle was practically rebuilt: RCS pods removed, inspected, numerous parts replaced.. the entire thing went through an inspection akin to a formula 1 race car. If anything was wrong, that part was replaced or repaired. See this Wikipedia article which goes through a lot of what went on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Space_Shuttle_program

Edited March 30, 2014 by helldiver

[Virtualgenius]

I think the conversation went off on a tangent Helldiver I dont think it got down to comparing your numbers vs real cost vs squad numbers people are just interested thats all

[SaSquatch]

I was going to say, in the Real World the SRBs didn't just come back down and were honky-dory ready to be refilled with Black Powder and stuck to the side of the EFT and lit with a match again the next day. Yes I said Black Powder...

It took months to get them ready again and they were pretty much rebuilt. I wouldn't really call them re-usable perse. The orbiter itself was completely rebuilt almost and inspected thoroughly. Blown off or damaged tiles replaced (each one being very expensive), shoot even the tires were replaced each launch (main tires every other launch?).

and finally... you seem to continue to ignore so here it is in bold:

None of those numbers mean anything. We made them up, Nazari just made up what ever numbers he saw on the stock config files he started with. I looked at them and said "looks good".

They were made in a way so that it's affordable and balanced to any other game part. None of the game parts follow any realistic cost structure. They are all balanced to the metagame not to realistic costs. Are they even used currently outside career mode?

None of the game parts use realistic numbers since the meta isn't about an economical space program simulation. In other words you're not playing "Realistic Space Program Account Manager". Managing grant money, public funds, balancing them, trying to get approval for budgets or any of that isn't part of it. Neither are contract negotiations, bidding, political interest or any of that. There are mods out there that kind of simulate some of that which is really cool, but they too use the stock numbers on most parts.

You mean the KSO? Yeah that's about right for the KSO. Although the KSO is supposed to pay for itself after 10 launches.

If you mean the real shuttles, not at all. Just go on YouTube and watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7dDSM3ZjA or any other video about Space shuttle preparation. It took months, years even. Once of the reasons the STS missions aren't consecutive was because some of them weren't even ready on time.

The entire shuttle was practically rebuilt: RCS pods removed, inspected, numerous parts replaced.. the entire thing went through an inspection akin to a formula 1 race car. If anything was wrong, that part was replaced or repaired. See this Wikipedia article which goes through a lot of what went on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Space_Shuttle_program

The mission numbers were also linked to fiscal years and a fear of the number 13... but besides the point.

[Westi29]

The 38th of my STS KSO Shuttle Missions and 2nd flight of Phase II! STS 138's objectives are to deploy the Laythe Ore Discovery Propulsion Module to the KSO Space Station, transfer fuel, assemble the probe, return to the KSC Runway, and finally head off to and map Laythe. The Laythe Ore Discovery Probe will map Laythe's ore deposits (which are massive).

The deployment missions run STS 137 & STS 138.


Most of the footage is shown in 8x speed for quick viewing.

STS 139 will deploy the first in a two part Laythe Ore Mining Probe!

[qnistNAMEERF]

Why do you have those square panels on the EFT??

To keep the SRBs from turning my KSO into a lawn dart. I like it better than the seperator rockets. Just a personal preference.

[sharpspoonful]

Thanks for the help with Mavericks! I can now run KSP at full rendering (all I have to do now is clean my fans )

[TeeGee]

I was going to say, in the Real World the SRBs didn't just come back down and were honky-dory ready to be refilled with Black Powder and stuck to the side of the EFT and lit with a match again the next day. Yes I said Black Powder...

It took months to get them ready again and they were pretty much rebuilt. I wouldn't really call them re-usable perse. The orbiter itself was completely rebuilt almost and inspected thoroughly. Blown off or damaged tiles replaced (each one being very expensive), shoot even the tires were replaced each launch (main tires every other launch?).

and finally... you seem to continue to ignore so here it is in bold:

None of those numbers mean anything. We made them up, Nazari just made up what ever numbers he saw on the stock config files he started with. I looked at them and said "looks good".

They were made in a way so that it's affordable and balanced to any other game part. None of the game parts follow any realistic cost structure. They are all balanced to the metagame not to realistic costs. Are they even used currently outside career mode?

None of the game parts use realistic numbers since the meta isn't about an economical space program simulation. In other words you're not playing "Realistic Space Program Account Manager". Managing grant money, public funds, balancing them, trying to get approval for budgets or any of that isn't part of it. Neither are contract negotiations, bidding, political interest or any of that. There are mods out there that kind of simulate some of that which is really cool, but they too use the stock numbers on most parts.

You mean the KSO? Yeah that's about right for the KSO. Although the KSO is supposed to pay for itself after 10 launches.

If you mean the real shuttles, not at all. Just go on YouTube and watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7dDSM3ZjA or any other video about Space shuttle preparation. It took months, years even. Once of the reasons the STS missions aren't consecutive was because some of them weren't even ready on time.

The entire shuttle was practically rebuilt: RCS pods removed, inspected, numerous parts replaced.. the entire thing went through an inspection akin to a formula 1 race car. If anything was wrong, that part was replaced or repaired. See this Wikipedia article which goes through a lot of what went on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Space_Shuttle_program

Oh I know that, but still, out of interest I decided to calculate the cost of producing a shuttle vs a rocket in Kerballand.

The SRB's were the biggest mistake in the shuttle program. They should be been liquid rockets because liquid rockets are safer, have a higher payload lifiting capability AND are easier to maintain. The only problem is that they are more expensive.

And because of this money concern, 8 people died.

[Sudragon]

Is it possible to get a version of the external tank that can be converted into usable habitation space? It's something NASA was looking at and there's a certain amount of nifty in a station made of recycled parts... I know someone has done this with standard diameter tanks.

A blow off docking point cover in the nose, and an EVA hatch. Only usablr after draining the tank and conversion process.

I mean, you got the damn thing up there, why not make use of it?

[Meridius]

Stupid question:

Current scenario; I have a partially built space station (KSS) orbiting 250km, 0 inclination. Trying to deliver a tug on the "Adamant" to the KSS with an additional fuel pod. I only have the fuel for the flight to the station, not enough to break orbit and return. Are you refueling at the station? Is the main tank balanced? Or maybe rebalancing the main tank with 4000 liquid fuel/4889 oxidizer?

I can only make it to the station and back with 2 fuel pods in the station.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Meridius

[The Space Man]

I seem to have a strange bug that's also now affecting some kso parts, every time i reload a craft a dim light source will spawn on the ground next to it. If i move away the light will stay in the position it spawned at and won't move with the craft.

Anyone know what could be causing this to happen?

[AntiMatter001]

I seem to have a strange bug that's also now affecting some kso parts, every time i reload a craft a dim light source will spawn on the ground next to it. If i move away the light will stay in the position it spawned at and won't move with the craft.

Anyone know what could be causing this to happen?

http://i.imgur.com/HkhLmWQ.png

it's ksp. it usually happens to me when i spawn something in and move it away the light is where it is before i quit (or go to space center) i think it's kinda like the place where it packs and unpacks the craft.

[mdapol]

TAC Life Support lets you do supply missions. Final Frontier mod tracks mission time for each Kerbal so crew transfers have more meaning (my Jeb has over 1500 days of space flight... 800 day mission on a MunBase Science Lab). Interstellar Mod lets you take up a Science Lab that creates science daily but requires power and resources of it's own. My station has been setup as a science station but I've been refitting it for Anti-matter storage, along with the Phase 2 modules. The last Interstellar tech tree entry requires 10k science and that lab is only doing .148/day in kerbin orbit.

And of course... Keep building that station.

You can't fit the KSPI Science Lab in the KSO's cargo bay.

[TeeGee]

Stupid question:

Current scenario; I have a partially built space station (KSS) orbiting 250km, 0 inclination. Trying to deliver a tug on the "Adamant" to the KSS with an additional fuel pod. I only have the fuel for the flight to the station, not enough to break orbit and return. Are you refueling at the station? Is the main tank balanced? Or maybe rebalancing the main tank with 4000 liquid fuel/4889 oxidizer?

I can only make it to the station and back with 2 fuel pods in the station.

Have u tried a de-orbit burn using the MONOPROP? It should work..

I'm guessing that launching with the fuel pod is adding monoprop weight unnecessarily to ur orbiter, and that's why you are running out of fuel prematurely.

But a more likely situation is that your space station is in too high of an orbit.

But if I were you, I'd either:

1) Use monoprop to make orbit changes

2) carry more fuel

That's all assuming that you are using optimal ascent profiles for the shuttle itself.

You should only be using the OMS to circularize the spacecraft, don't use the SSME's, they weren't designed for that.

Edited March 30, 2014 by TeeGee

[Lekke]

Stupid question:

Current scenario; I have a partially built space station (KSS) orbiting 250km, 0 inclination. Trying to deliver a tug on the "Adamant" to the KSS with an additional fuel pod. I only have the fuel for the flight to the station, not enough to break orbit and return. Are you refueling at the station? Is the main tank balanced? Or maybe rebalancing the main tank with 4000 liquid fuel/4889 oxidizer?

I can only make it to the station and back with 2 fuel pods in the station.

Have u tried a de-orbit burn using the MONOPROP? It should work..

I'm guessing that launching with the fuel pod is adding monoprop weight unnecessarily to ur orbiter, and that's why you are running out of fuel prematurely.

But a more likely situation is that your space station is in too high of an orbit.

But if I were you, I'd either:

1) Use monoprop to make orbit changes

2) carry more fuel

That's all assuming that you are using optimal ascent profiles for the shuttle itself.

You should only be using the OMS to circularize the spacecraft, don't use the SSME's, they weren't designed for that.

Also I've found that if you launch into an orbit of 80 km (with an optimal ascent path) you will only use the fuel in your big orange tank, even if you are carrying a full load in your shuttle.

[ayana]

And this only took three launches. The fact that a rocket can send up modules three at a time sure is useful. I could probably send more at once but stability wouldn't make it safe.

[Lekke]

http://i.imgur.com/I6Se5oT.png

And this only took three launches. The fact that a rocket can send up modules three at a time sure is useful. I could probably send more at once but stability wouldn't make it safe.

Just until the ARM pack is released, with the improvements to attachment node strength things will get more stable .

[Green Skull]

The crew of GSI KSO Mayhem about to launch a prototype "Kubble" telescope.

This is a WIP and I hope to maybe release if there is enough interest. I might also do some other KSO sized payloads...