[WIP] Universal Storage

[Angelo Kerman]

You'll need the sabatier the turn Carbon Dioxide into Liquid fuel and Water, then the Elektron to turn water into Oxygen and Hydrogen.

Good to know, thank you. Now I need to figure out where to put the hydrogen- well, where the next US module goes.

Oh dang. Ok, is there something that makes oxidizer?

Edited October 17, 2014 by Angel-125

[Paul Kingtiger]

Good to know, thank you. Now I need to figure out where to put the hydrogen- well, where the next US module goes.

Oh dang. Ok, is there something that makes oxidizer?

No there isn't. Problem is we don't know exactly what Oxidizer is, LOX is most likely, but it could also be a number of other things. AT that point things start to get complicated, more so than we wanted to go with the mod. You could right a config for real fuels that changed the Sabatier output to Methane and Water which is what it actually produces (Methane can be used as fuel so that's why I made it Liquid fuel, it's a fudge but I wanted everything to be useable). In real fuels Oxidizer is changed to a number of real world oxidizers, then you could create a processor to turn Universal Storage gas Oxygen to LOX.

[Climberfx]

Hey, would be great to have a LED indicating if one of the reactors/converters is on and off.

Outside the container, or in stock toolbar.

Just an idea.

[Floppster]

The quality of your work continues to amaze me. Well done! Here's a picture of a new space station core module I built that uses Universal Storage. I decided that it would look cool without the metal sidings:

snippety

Gorgeous! Mind telling me what mods are used here?

[Angelo Kerman]

No there isn't. Problem is we don't know exactly what Oxidizer is, LOX is most likely, but it could also be a number of other things. AT that point things start to get complicated, more so than we wanted to go with the mod. You could right a config for real fuels that changed the Sabatier output to Methane and Water which is what it actually produces (Methane can be used as fuel so that's why I made it Liquid fuel, it's a fudge but I wanted everything to be useable). In real fuels Oxidizer is changed to a number of real world oxidizers, then you could create a processor to turn Universal Storage gas Oxygen to LOX.

Your explanation is much appreciated, thank you. I think I'll write a custom config then.

Gorgeous! Mind telling me what mods are used here?

Sure! Glad you like it. Aside from Universal Storage of course, I'm using the Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System as well as the omni lights from B9. The core module is from a mod I'm working on called the Multipurpose Colony Module (MCM). It brings the functionality of RoverDude's USI Kolonization Systems (MKS/OKS) mod into a package sized for the KSO Super 25 orbiter. My goal was to create something stock-ish. I'm playtesting it while I have fun with my current playthrough. I still have the base unit to do, and some bugs to work out before it's ready for beta.

Meanwhile, Starlab Phase 1 is complete (not shown is the fuel tank and hydrogen block):

In addition to the above mods, Starlab Phase 1 uses Infernal Robotics with Zoid's model reworks, Near Future Electrical, Near Future Solar, KAS, Near Future Construction, probably a couple of others.

I used IR robot arms to position various modules. Here's an example:

Edited October 19, 2014 by Angel-125

[Floppster]

eyecandy

Beautiful stuff you've got there. Mind sending me a pm when you plan on releasing the MCM?

[Angelo Kerman]

Beautiful stuff you've got there. Mind sending me a pm when you plan on releasing the MCM?

Sure, I'll be happy to PM you when the mod is ready for beta.

[Daishi]

Right. I think i have a simple solution to the micromanagment hell Firespitter textureswitching would bring. If I implemented it as-is, everyone would have had to cycle through every single wedge to customize its appearance or turn the structure off, and i'd have to remake everything to set it all up in Unity. The more options i make, the more convoluted the tweakable menu would become. If nodes break when you're building things, you have to start from scratch, reattach the wedges, and customize everything again. It's a ton of wasted time for the user fluffing around, and a ton of wasted time for me making it work. And if firespitter breaks, US would essentially be unusable as every part would corrupt or disappear from the parts list. So, why not offload the structural coverings to a single, non-essential part? Less work to update, and less pain when it comes to customizing your rocket. And if you don't want an external structure, don't use the part.

I tried to explain some kind of version earlier on, but i was probably not very clear as I was either tired or drunk, or both. Here's a second attempt (wrought with spelling mistakes, did this on break at work).

This will likely make the Science Bay wedge redundant, as the adapter will still have interior walls and surface attachment will be enabled. For example, what would have been a two-high quadcore stack of eight science bays, (10 parts), the new adapter will fill the same role, for three (two quadcores, and an extended adapter). Quad, Hex and Octo cores still work as normal with KAS (attaching wedges on EVA).

The wedges will no longer dictate the circumference of the stack either, so everything can be cylindrical instead of scalloped. And now that we have an interesting new cross section with the new MK2 parts (and impending MK3), making adapters that match those will be straight forward. And if you'd like a structural covering higher than 4 cores tall, just flip an adapter upside down and have them meet in the middle.

The only issue i can see, is that you'll have to open the doors (all at once) to be able to interface with the parts (turning generators on, etc). There are a few ways around this I can think of, including making a Universal Storage toolbar interface that lists all generators on a vessel, and their usage state, runtime estimates, and on\off switches. Your thoughts?

[Night Lone]

My thoughts: Awesome! Do it! I've loved this mod from the first time I saw it, and it's always something I download.

[dreadicon]

I love the idea in general, as previously stated.

I also think that a UI could be a good addition; Life Support/generators could use a common interface anyhow, and such an implementation would be easy for someone else to utilize as an RPM module.

Another idea would be to make the core and shroud one part, and have each part attached 'registered' with the core-shroud combo. In this case, each core comes with a togglable shroud. the right click menu then shows the 4-8 nodes, and you has a toggle for each. Shroud/no-shroud could work as a toggle just as it is now, except the toggle is on the core rather than the wedges.

As always, amazing work all around!

[Paul Kingtiger]

Nice! I think you've found the sweet spot between complexity and functionality!

With the doors, it might work better if the door was extended to the full width of the wedge. That way you maximise the space in the science bay and have no trouble taking things in and out with KAS + EVA.

[Chris_Pi]

Putting the exterior structure on an adapter plate Sounds like the way to go - I usually decide whether or not to toggle it off on a rocket-by rocket basis rather than each individual wedge - This would do that regardless of what wedges were used. Especially useful for a cargo hauler going up to another vehicle - Exterior structure and fairing on the way up, Uncovered wedge once it's moved. I'm going to end up swapping out all my wedges again, Aren't I? ...With better wedges.

[Daishi]

I love the idea in general, as previously stated.

I also think that a UI could be a good addition; Life Support/generators could use a common interface anyhow, and such an implementation would be easy for someone else to utilize as an RPM module.

Another idea would be to make the core and shroud one part, and have each part attached 'registered' with the core-shroud combo. In this case, each core comes with a togglable shroud. the right click menu then shows the 4-8 nodes, and you has a toggle for each. Shroud/no-shroud could work as a toggle just as it is now, except the toggle is on the core rather than the wedges.

As always, amazing work all around!

If we have one long section of the external shroud, instead of multiple sections of it per core, i'll be able to save a ton of mesh by stretching the polygons vertically. They'll be no seams or (visible) joint compression on acceleration either, if its all one part To avoid stretched textures i'll just overcompensate the maps on the vertical dimension to start with.

Nice! I think you've found the sweet spot between complexity and functionality!

With the doors, it might work better if the door was extended to the full width of the wedge. That way you maximise the space in the science bay and have no trouble taking things in and out with KAS + EVA.

Thanks! I'll have to turn the adapter shrouds all into the double door type so Dmagic's parts will function identically without clipping, so the accessible space will still be quite large. To maximize this we may have to make the cores allow surface attachment. Wedges could stay node-only though, so it shouldn't get fiddly, especially with the alt-click node-only mode in KSP now.

We'll have to talk to Dmagic about somehow making the adapter doors automatically open when his science parts activate. It should be achievable, stock KSP does it with the science interface - it plays the external antennas animation file indirectly when you start a transmission. Especially considering we'll have colliders on the doors now, and it'd likely explode the ship if you extend the magnetometer before opening the bay

Putting the exterior structure on an adapter plate Sounds like the way to go - I usually decide whether or not to toggle it off on a rocket-by rocket basis rather than each individual wedge - This would do that regardless of what wedges were used. Especially useful for a cargo hauler going up to another vehicle - Exterior structure and fairing on the way up, Uncovered wedge once it's moved. I'm going to end up swapping out all my wedges again, Aren't I? ...With better wedges.

Yeah i don;t think i've ever felt the need to only partially customize the wedges in my own installs - its either all or nothing. And yep, will make wedge swapouts a little less awkward

Edited November 1, 2014 by Daishi

[Ippo]

Don't worry for the colliders, they are inactive for parts on the same ship unless you mod it. Also, triggering the animation should be a lot easier than finding the correct part that you need to open...

[CaptainKipard]

Could you give the cores stack symmetry?

[Paul Kingtiger]

Could you give the cores stack symmetry?

Annoying no. The stack symmetry has to be fixed or not at all, so there's no way to have 2 and 4 symmetry on a quad core, only 2 or 4. This isn't such a problem for the quad core, but in the octo core it's such a pain that I took it out entirely. It's a limitation with stock KSP.

[skbernard]

is the new shroud node going to have... yup... nope... this is just a shameless bump because we'd love to know!

[Sentmassen]

EDIT: wrong place

Edited June 8, 2015 by Sentmassen

[Daishi]

is the new shroud node going to have... yup... nope... this is just a shameless bump because we'd love to know!

Whoops, I still don't seem to get notifications for this thread... weird. Anywho, hello after several months of nothing!

I've started revising the parts that I know i'm going to keep for US2. For the concept to work they need to expand in the VAB with a right click menu; which essentially boils down to the Firespitter plugin requesting different versions of the model and hiding the unused ones as you cycle through the lengths. To save memory, every variant of these parts has to reference the same texture map; so i need to make sure the base texture map has enough information to serve four models with minimal stretching and UV duplication.

The cores work pretty well for this, being made to stack seamlessly in the first place. Picked the octocore for my proof of concept

So far that's two cores high - i'm gunning for single core and wedge variants to be expandable up to 4x. With the wedges using the same system, a four-stack octo with a full set of wedges on all levels goes from a part count of 36 down to 9. Round that up to 10 if you want a properly working US aerodynamic shroud* protecting everything!

*Yes they never worked in Universal Storage 1 and they're currently unfixable. US2 will put everything right, you'll see!

[DavidBowman]

I was there when US first came out. Right then I knew it was going to be epic. From then, it has gone over my expectations and surprised me and expanding into this good-looking, brilliantly thought-through, and realistic game mechanic. I humbly thank the devs dedication and wish you all good luck.

(all mod devs are so awesome!)

[Daishi]

I was there when US first came out. Right then I knew it was going to be epic. From then, it has gone over my expectations and surprised me and expanding into this good-looking, brilliantly thought-through, and realistic game mechanic. I humbly thank the devs dedication and wish you all good luck.

(all mod devs are so awesome!)

Thankyou so much for the kind words!

[Daishi]

Proof of concept working in game, although the part has to exist with all four heights worth of nodes visible from the start. It doesn't interfere with much, but it is a pain. Wish there was a node spawning feature in the firespitter plugin.

Because of this, i think the only way for wedges to attach cleanly is with surface attachment. Several dozen nodes on a single expanded part might break things :\

[Angelo Kerman]

Dashi, I have a similar dilemma with DSEV, and am researching a solution. I might have a mini-plugin or some source for you in a few days.

[Daishi]

Dashi, I have a similar dilemma with DSEV, and am researching a solution. I might have a mini-plugin or some source for you in a few days.

Ooh, would really appreciate that if you could find something! Thanks!

[Konnor]

Wish there was a node spawning feature in the firespitter plugin.

bac9 is working on a new subtype switcher for B9 Aerospace that is going to support node switching.