I'm sorry, I... I just don't like ARM... :(

[ScallopPotato]

For all the players that ask for colonization or making it easier to do interplanetary things or even interstellar travel, the improved performance, stabler joints, and big parts help a lot in throwing big things into orbit.

I've been using KW rocketry a lot, so seeing someone make blocks of mainsails and jumbos just seems silly to me.

Also, the SLS engines aren't overpowered; the other engines are underpowered compared to real life engines.

[makinyashikino]

You know, you don't have to use the parts, you're not at gunpoint, USE THE OVERPOWERED PARTS! Anyway, buffed things like the ION and LV-1 are mainly because in the older version, you would end up with burns going into the double digits. This is just so you don't have to wait as long. Also in the future, when $$$ is put in, there won't be spamming and well designed/cheap launchers will be a godsend.

[makinyashikino]

For all the players that ask for colonization or making it easier to do interplanetary things or even interstellar travel, the improved performance, stabler joints, and big parts help a lot in throwing big things into orbit.

I've been using KW rocketry a lot, so seeing someone make blocks of mainsails and jumbos just seems silly to me.

Also, the SLS engines aren't overpowered; the other engines are underpowered compared to real life engines.

The engines are underpowered because kerbin is a fraction of the size of earth hell, Kerbin is smaller than our moon!

[CalculusWarrior]

I'm personally a fan of the new rocket parts, as I feel like they shift the focus of the game away from building a perfectly-strutted lift stages to get your ships into orbit, and more onto the things you can do when you get into orbit. Having to spend more time on your lifter stage than on your actual mission is no fun at all (in my mind at least), as well as the framerate drop one tends to experience when trying to lift large objects into orbit. Now you no longer have to place a limit on the size of an object you launch into space (well, there are of course limits with the new parts, but they are much higher than before) and you can accomplish more than ever before! Lifting huge interplanetary bases or three-man Eve landers no longer require Whackjobian creations which contain massive numbers of parts, but you can lift them with something which takes a lot less time, effort, and parts to do the same task.

3 metre parts provide an extra dimension to the game which was lacking before. Now we can focus on achieving great things out in the solar system, rather than dealing with actually getting our ships to not fall apart on the launchpad. Instead of having to send up multiple Munar base modules, you have the option of sending up one in a single launch. However, the game never forces you to do this. If you absolutely love designing a modular base system/space station, then by all means continue to send up modules and watch them fit together. But if you find that tiresome and prefer building a whole structure in the VAB, you are now able to launch it without fear of having to build an insane lifter which contains more parts than your base.

To conclude, I find that this update gives more choice to players, rather than takes it away. Additionally, you should just be able to delete the 'NASAmission' folder inside your KSP directory if you really can't stand the ARM pack; you'll still be able to enjoy the maneuver node improvements, the stronger parts system, and all the other nice little tweaks the devs made to the base game.

(As for the 'premade' parts in KSP, I feel like the devs made them that way for two reasons. First, they probably wanted to make them more closely match the hardware NASA is planning to use, and didn't want to have to include a lot of new adaptor parts. Secondly, since the new engines are better than the old, adding standalone versions would likely completely replace other engines. While the side booster is kind of odd, containing fuel and an engine, the engine itself is better than a Mainsail, in nearly all respects. Adding the limitation of a large tank of fuel and no bottom node prevents the Mainsail from being phased out entirely.)

Edited April 4, 2014 by CalculusWarrior

[Superfluous J]

It seems like impact events happen too often.

I agree. In fact we find asteroids too often. Rather than having 5-10 unknown objects at all times, I'd instead like a popup (on the toolbar that they pay Blizzy to integrate into the game) "Near-Kerbin Asteroid discovered! Periapsis: 12,324,936km in 183 days" and you can just click "track" or "ignore." You should get these every few in-game weeks and can choose to ignore all alerts for a time or forever via a checkbox.

I tell you one thing, it's awesome not having to strut the living crap out of my launchers just to keep the engines from wobbling around like mad.

Very much this. My ship that can (in theory, haven't tried it yet) redirect a Class E asteroid into a Kerbin collision (Orbit Schmorbit, at least that's what Jeb says) has a grand total of *2* struts, and that's just because the new engines are so powerful they twist the fuel tanks around the radial decopulers and waste dV not aiming straight down.

Talk about 1st Kerbin Problems.

Edited April 4, 2014 by 5thHorseman
reworded "them" to "all alerts" for clarity

[Capt. Hunt]

I do agree with the "premade feeling" though, especially the liquid boosters, though I have no problems with the other tanks and engines (though I wish we had gotten individual K-25's, realistic or not, contradicting with my statement on the "real life" factor of these parts earlier)

I'll stop spamming now, sorry.

there's no reason to believe the K-25 isn't one big multi-nozzle engine like the LR-87 on the Titan II, that's not really premade, it's just a really big engine.

[Dodgey]

I also find the pre made parts a bit weird. I would much prefer to be given the base parts and have to build it myself. That would add a lot more flexibility to the build process.

[The Silent Majority]

Is the K-25 not the quad-clustered engine?

If not, I meant to say that one.

there's no reason to believe the K-25 isn't one big multi-nozzle engine

Au contraire,on the actual SLS, they are 4 separate engines, I do understand why SQUAD clustered them, I was just saying that having those would be nice. (RS-25's if you want to look them up)

[Gunso]

I have an idea if squad want to add difficulty option in the game, just remove the powereful parts for harder difficulty

i only play career mode, so i dont really have an issue with ARM

just that i dont feel like capturing any asteroids now since i have no idea what to do with it. Unless they add things like mining the asteroid for science or unlocking a rare material then i would be interested.

I do like the randomness of the asteroids, it increased the risks of one hitting my space station

I do hope they add notification system or something like a collision alert to tell you when a debris or asteroid passing too close to one of your ships. I do like to jump to it and watch it pass by..... or hit them

Edited April 4, 2014 by Gunso

[Superfluous J]

I do like the randomness of the asteroids, it increased the risks of one hitting my space station

It actually doubled the probability, from 0% to 0%.

Really, unless your space station is in your physics window (ie, your'e controlling it or a ship within ~2km of it) the asteroid would pass through it. And that's assuming you tracked the asteroid and then for some reason didn't notice that its orbit intersected the station. And even if you managed to do that, your station is a tiny, tiny target.

[NeoMorph]

I've come to the conclusion that the sheer number of asteroids near Kerbin are to do with Jeb crashing a Nuclear powered rocket into Kerbin's third moon...

[regex]

I've come to the conclusion that the sheer number of asteroids near Kerbin are to do with Jeb crashing a Nuclear powered rocket into Kerbin's third moon...

Confirming.

[LaydeeDem]

Funny how no one ever complained about this when KW rocketry came out.

[Naten]

As we get actually one engine (not just one nozzle in some cases, mind you) or tank or other Kerbal torture instrument (for science), not just "HEER, LAWNCH WITH ZE ESS-ELL-ESS!!!!!1 :D"

[Whackjob]

People used to admire the stuff Whackjob did precisely because it was crazy and difficult to pull off. Now lifting insane weight is trivial, taking a lot of the skill out of the game, and the fun along with it.

I agree and disagree. Yes, lifting much heavier weights will be trivial now, and the things I did in the past will become far more commonplace, but I'm totally okay with it. Because the things I will be able to launch now will go from insane, skip over ludicrous, and move right on in to blasphemous.

My new computer's final part is scheduled to arrive while I office tomorrow. That night, I build, and configure, and update, and prepare.

Over the weekend, and my "work weekend" on Monday and Tuesday... madness will happen. Madness.

#EDIT: Side note, I'm very looking forward to seeing if some of the parts tree bugs I have been combating will be still active or gone.

[NeoMorph]

Whackjob..... somehow your comment makes me think of this....

[SSSPutnik]

I agree with the OP as well.

[cantab]

I really have been dreading this, an update I'd dislike...

Well, the ion engines are more powerful than the LV-1... I don't even have to wait for satellite movement burns. It just... doesn't seem fair.

The LV-1 got a buff too. It now gives 4 kN, the ion engine gives 2 and is also nearly ten times the LV-1's mass.

True, the LV-1 is always going to be a bit situational. Only on the very lightest of probes will it give more delta-V than the 48-7S. You could use it as a Vernier thruster on a bigger craft, but RCS is arguably better for that, though the LV-1 allows finer control of thrust.

Also, now it feels like if I start a new sandbox, I'm going to have to deal with 30 E-classes en route to Kerbin with a collision course. It's almost like the poor Kerbals are enduring the smite of some sort of deity, out there with a hatred for Kerbalkind...

I don't think actual impactors are that common. In one visit to the Tracking Station I got an atmosphere grazer and a couple of other near passes, none E class, and no impactors yet. In any case, feel free to ignore them. The E-class asteroids are about the size of the Chelyabinsk meteorite. "Realistically" you could let dozens impact and you'd have maybe one town get hit at worst.

If I make a space station, then I'll want it to be like the near-future space programs of ours; the ISS, and doing stuff with it, as well as satellites. Well, then lookie there. Asteroids up for grabs!

Grabbing asteroids being exactly a planned near-future space mission.

Let's build a bigger rocket; no cost means bigger is better! WOOOOT! I really don't want a Space Launch System. It's an almost "premade" rocket, with like 6 parts... and it's all just for asteroids...

The new parts are for whatever you want them to be. I'm using the big SRB to launch a minimalistic probe that's going to go on and do a Pioneer-style mission.

Also, the gameplay has changed. It really seems like if you make a big rocket out of like 6 SLS parts, up you go into orbit with a 90 ton payload. Giggleplex did it. It's just too easy. Nerf stuff, pleeeees...

I guess I don't have the right to complain...

Sure, what used to be big and challenging to get into orbit isn't so big any more. But that just makes "big" BIGGER.

Or, I'll ModuleManage away at your part.cfg's to balance them like before. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this game... but I feel it's no longer the same...

Or just delete the NASAmission folder from your GameData, and all the new parts will be gone.

I know you're kidding, but it feels like going against the modular, lego-like flavor of KSP to have a fuel tank integrated into an engine. Same with combining engines into a multi-engine adapter, without giving us the adapter by itself.

Now this I can agree with somewhat. But I think that Squad were probably conscious of the game's known performance issues. The engine cluster and the LFB help keep part counts down (though not as much as the stronger joints obviating the need for struts everywhere). For those of us whose PCs struggle a bit to play KSP - and there are lots of us - that's a major boon.

Still, not having the KR-1 and KS-25 as single engines is a bit of a bummer. In terms of thrust they'd nicely fill the rather large gap between the Skipper and the Mainsail.

And as it stands now, there is 0 incentive for using the escape tower....just revert the flight and be glad that you can.

Personally I find it just plain satisfying to successfully save my Kerbals when the rocket under them undergoes an unscheduled disassembly. (Of course, I didn't need the LES for that, but I'll give it a go in future anyway.)

[Superfluous J]

Funny how no one ever complained about this when KW rocketry came out.

Mods are held up to a different standard. They don't have to be balanced, just fun. The base game must be both of those, and a lot more as well.

That said, I so far am super impressed with the new parts but don't consider them OP. Well, maybe a little but meh. I've launched hundreds of things off of Kerbin. I deserve a better way to do it.

[HeadHunter67]

Funny how no one ever complained about this when KW rocketry came out.

To be fair, no one had to download and use that mod. Of course, no one needs to use the new parts, either...

Personally, I like being able to build an SLS-style rocket, capable of a Münshot with fewer than a dozen parts in the lifter.

[NASAFanboy]

How about Squad release two ARM's, them have a community modded be responsible for .cfg editing the ARM packs before every update to have one normal ARM and one nerfed ARM.

Then those who like it can still send their monstrosities to orbit in a single piece, and those who want it nerfed can still enjoy a "balanced" game, whatever that means.

[EndOfTheEarth]

My thoughts on the matter are mixed.

I mean, yes, the SLS parts are immensely overpowered. The first time I booted this update, I'd made an SSTO in three minutes with no math, no tests, and seven parts, and I'd almost never managed anything like that in .23

That said, I imagine that the costs behind these parts in career mode MUST balance out the power. SLS engines seem to be end-game tech, and while they should stay in the game, they should also be hard to obtain.

Sandbox is sandbox. People overbuilt sandbox rockets before .23.5, and they will do the same now that they have bigger parts. There shouldn't be any surprise here.

[LostElement]

Looks, if you don't like the ion buff, edit the .cfg file a bit.

[Accelerando]

end-game tech for right now, indeed.

come on, some of you, really? if you don't want to use the new parts, you don't have to â€â€*being able to build giant 4000 part heavy lifters out of a billion smallish parts is still giong to be an achievement no matter how you look at it.

and you don't think that the S curve of performance for rocket engines applies just as much to the new parts? SLS will have their own cutoff point, and their own gigantic creations, even bigger than the 2m tank monstrosities. and maybe now the builder-type people privileged with crap PCs will be able to have actual fun making big rockets that go places they want them to instead of trying to limit the part count. really, people whining about this stuff seem so inconsiderate of anyone but themselves

[Yarrula]

I can't disagree more with OP. I like the new parts. I like the asteroids. The new joints are fantastic. I've only been playing since 0.22, but in my limited experience, this has been the best update yet.

I am not concerned with part balance, especially in sandbox where I spend most of my time. My idea for improvement is more choices, which I feel this update has delivered in spades. I make engine choices based on the diameter (size), not the efficiency. I've never used the small 48 one and I like the poodle.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't see this game as a simple min-max challenge. That ends up fairly boring for me. The part count is the limiting factor for my laptop. If I want a complex and awesome lifter with a simple payload, I can already do that. If I have an awesome ship I just want to throw in orbit quickly, now I can do that too.

Balance is for a min-max playstyle, or for a finished career mode. I fit into neither category. I know the "it's an alpha" argument gets tossed around a lot, but I think its still valid.