Is Asparagus obsolete with SLS?

[Red Iron Crown]

Asparagus staging is only needed, if you want to make the lander as small as possible. Before I started building my current giant lander, I had planned a simple four-stage lander that had around 11300 m/s of delta-v with the three-kerbal command pod. Even my current design is not fully asparagus: it has around 11800 m/s with three groups of six boosters each. Full asparagus with nine booster pairs would have given 12300 m/s, but it wasn't worth the effort.

That ship must be immense. Is it far enough along to show us a picture?

[Jouni]

That ship must be immense. Is it far enough along to show us a picture?

The ship is currently drifting around Eve, after running out of fuel before it could match the inclination of Gilly.

The support ships are also quite big. The deorbiting stage is an old fuel tanker, and the fuel tanker is a double-sized version of my 0.23 kethane miner. There are some problems with the tanker on Gilly, as it's hard to get more than two drills working at once.

[Red Iron Crown]

Is that a Hitchiker module below the capsule? Are you taking seven kerbals to sea level Eve and returning? If so, my hat is off to you.

I don't see any landing gear, are you relying on the LFB's high impact tolerance to do without?

[Jouni]

There's room for seven kerbals, but the ship is carrying only three.

I'm planning to do a powered landing, as the parachutes only slow the ship down to around 20 m/s.

[samstarman5]

Nothing will ever be made obsolete just because we get new parts. Otherwise there would be no point in the small SRB's(not sepatrons), anymore. I find them quite handy for establishing orbit, actually.

[Soda Popinski]

Will the new SLS parts be available in the 0.24 or are they made only for the ARM patch(like the asteroid)?

From what I understand the ARM patch is just that - a patch. It's not DLC or a mod, so from now on, anything in the ARM patch should also be in any future versions, like 0.24.

So as long as your KSP is up to date, the SLS parts are available (assuming you're in sandbox or have unlocked the heavy rocketry tech).

[goldenpeach]

Thank you!

It mean I can start some project without seeing them being useless(or impossible) in 0.24

[cantab]

What's the point of launching such massive payloads? Is it not the point of trying to find the optimised launch rocket with a given payload?

Even if it is, what do you optimise to? Launchpad mass, in which case you go with asparagus. Part count, in which case you probably don't. Or build time, in which case you make one big lifter and use it for everything.

[Xavven]

What's the point of launching such massive payloads? Is it not the point of trying to find the optimised launch rocket with a given payload?

My 0.23.0 career mode campaign required keeping 1 Kerbal cramped in the small mercury command capsule for years to visit the outer planets. Now with the 0.23.5 SLS parts I can role play a little more and have a 3-man command pod, a living quarters, and a 2-man lander to visit everything. Less optimized from a min-max gameplay point of view? Yes. More fun, though? To me, also yes.

[Jas1126]

Reading through this thread and the primary thought that stands out:

"People still use standard rockets on eve?"

SSTO all the way.

[Felsmak]

Obsolete? More like improved!

[magnemoe]

For me it is obsolete, I can lift 100 ton to LKO with an 7 booster ssto using the 25x4, an longer version with 12 of the new SRB I lift 160 ton, and yes it return and land on launchpad.

160 ton was somethign who required an specialized launcher build around the payload and more than 6 bosters before the SLS

[Karla]

I had recently built a double decker asparagus rocket using orange tanks. Then I found this thread and decided to upgrade.

It drops four double tanks at a time. I basically start with a cross and extend it by one then wrap it around the centre. This left me with a gap in the outer middle which was going to be too hard to put the last tank into so I had to change the order that they dropped. Unfortunately this meant that I ended up with a flying swastika.

On top of the rocket is a pod with a science lab and loads of experiments strapped to it. Writing this, I've just realised that I forgot to put parachutes on it ... Doh! The last stage has four atomic engines strapped to it. Once I got the rocket into orbit I decided to try for Eloo regardless of transfer windows and such things. I added a manoeuvre and the only course I could find was Kerbin -> Low Solar orbit -> Eloo. I thought to myself, yeah, let's try for it!

The burn took a fair while and the rocket seemed to drift off course for a while. I also don't have much fuel left for slowing down once I reach Eloo. If it doesn't manage it I wonder if Eloo will sling shot it? I might also have drifted too far off course and not make Eloo at all, but if that's so then I am sure they will meet up with many other planets as they continue to orbit the solar system.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Karla

[Soda Popinski]

I had recently built a double decker asparagus rocket using orange tanks. Then I found this thread and decided to upgrade.

It drops four double tanks at a time. I basically start with a cross and extend it by one then wrap it around the centre. This left me with a gap in the outer middle which was going to be too hard to put the last tank into so I had to change the order that they dropped. Unfortunately this meant that I ended up with a flying swastika.

http://i57.tinypic.com/mmzrll.jpg

A Swastika shaped asparagus build? Confirmed! Werner von Kerman really is a space Nutsi!

Edited May 5, 2014 by Soda Popinski

[cantab]

Reading through this thread and the primary thought that stands out:

"People still use standard rockets on eve?"

SSTO all the way.

Not without mod parts

Edit: Or glitch exploitation.

Edited May 5, 2014 by cantab

[Red Iron Crown]

Not without mod parts

I think it can be done by abusing infiniglide, kraken drive, or ladder force with stock parts, but that's not how I roll.

[Jas1126]

Not without mod parts

This game is fairly incomplete/broken. I'd rather not waste my time not modding it. People can be proud of their "Stock" accomplishments all they like. I prefer using this substance between my ears and accept the fixes that should be stock.

Imagine being a mod creator who's offering logical fixes only to be told that people prefer a broken and incomplete "Stock". That level of stupidity is just spectacularly humorous. lol

[Red Iron Crown]

This game is fairly incomplete/broken. I'd rather not waste my time not modding it. People can be proud of their "Stock" accomplishments all they like. I prefer using this substance between my ears and accept the fixes that should be stock.

Imagine being a mod creator who's offering logical fixes only to be told that people prefer a broken and incomplete "Stock". That level of stupidity is just spectacularly humorous. lol

That's one way to look at it. Back when I used mod parts, I found myself tracking down incompatibilities and troubleshooting for far too much of my time. That and the inevitable delay after each release while I waited for the mods to be updated were the reason I moved back to stock parts.

Different strokes for different folks, I don't think there is a "stupid" playstyle. Stupid people don't "get" KSP, IME.

[cantab]

This game is fairly incomplete/broken. I'd rather not waste my time not modding it. People can be proud of their "Stock" accomplishments all they like. I prefer using this substance between my ears and accept the fixes that should be stock.

Imagine being a mod creator who's offering logical fixes only to be told that people prefer a broken and incomplete "Stock". That level of stupidity is just spectacularly humorous. lol

Sure, there are plenty of things that "should be stock", but a propulsion system capable of getting you off Eve with a single stage isn't one of them. Not when an Eve return is one of the biggest challenges in the game, and not when it requires more delta-V and higher TWR than real rockets reaching Low Earth Orbit and there's never been an Earth SSTO.

(Yes I know FAR drops the delta-V requirement, but it's still high. If improved aerodynamics alone is enough to make an Eve SSTO possible then I'd say Eve's atmosphere "should be" denser to render that no longer possible.)

[Jouni]

For me, KSP is currently a game about problem solving. The more tools there are available (e.g. mod parts), the more likely there exists a tool that directly solves the problem, making the solution boring. Similarly, if a tool feels too powerful or too widely useful (e.g. asparagus staging, turbojets), I usually stop using it, as it makes the game boring.

[HafCoJoe]

For me, KSP is currently a game about problem solving. The more tools there are available (e.g. mod parts), the more likely there exists a tool that directly solves the problem, making the solution boring. Similarly, if a tool feels too powerful or too widely useful (e.g. asparagus staging, turbojets), I usually stop using it, as it makes the game boring.

Okay maybe I did just quote you straight after you posted but I agree. To a point though, Adding more innovative and wacky parts makes the game funner BUT, adding parts that are just simpler, and better versions of already added parts makes it boring.

[Vanamonde]

This game is fairly incomplete/broken.

Indeed. One might even say that it's an unfinished work-in-progress that is still in development.

That level of stupidity is just spectacularly humorous.

There is, however, no need to be insulting about it.

[Pecan]

I'm still limiting myself to ~40t launch payloads and assembling anything larger in space, using modular designs. At that sort of mass asparagus has become 'obsolete' for me unless I'm maximising payload-ratio. 2-stage serial or parallel ARM parts - or older ones under lighter payloads - can easily handle such things and are just so much simpler to build and cause less part-induced lag. Spaceplanes are even less worth the effort of flying too, although Claw convinced me to use intake spam 8~! (nothing to do with SLS/ARM), so when I do they perform exceptionally well.

Perhaps I'll adjust my next campaign to have a "lowest-mass at launch" requirement, just to see what's possible :-)

[Tokay Gris]

If it is comparable I don't really see a need for Asparagus, after all how often do you need to launch 130 ton payloads in KSP?

Ehm.... all the time?

My current "Prospector"-type ships weight fully fueled more than 300 tons. Can't get it to orbit fueled, so I need fuel tankers. And those are well above 130 tons each.

[Redshift OTF]

No way is asparagus staging dead. I use it for my latest SLS lifter which can get a 500 ton payload into LKO.

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