[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[trooperMNG]

Will the fixed docking probe be removed in the next update? 

[Beale]

21 minutes ago, trooperMNG said:

Will the fixed docking probe be removed in the next update? 

Not exactly, more information soon  

[Beale]

Drogue:

I don't know if to animate the part, but here is the retracted version.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Beale

[minepagan]

@Beale, since you are redoing the Soyuz parts now seems like the perfect time:

In my career playthroughs, I've noticed that the Soyuz DM/Zond capsule is really, really overpowered. It's smaller than the MK1 command pod, only slightly heavier, yet has a 2 kerbal capacity and a built-in heatshield. To make it balanced, it really needs to have a way of having the OM needed, and not just be for show.

How about removing the hatch, or making the hatch be on top like the real soyuz/zond? That way you can still use it as a zond, but you can't use docking ports or anything.

[Beale]

31 minutes ago, minepagan said:

@Beale, since you are redoing the Soyuz parts now seems like the perfect time:

In my career playthroughs, I've noticed that the Soyuz DM/Zond capsule is really, really overpowered. It's smaller than the MK1 command pod, only slightly heavier, yet has a 2 kerbal capacity and a built-in heatshield. To make it balanced, it really needs to have a way of having the OM needed, and not just be for show.

How about removing the hatch, or making the hatch be on top like the real soyuz/zond? That way you can still use it as a zond, but you can't use docking ports or anything.

I don't know if that would be very fun, a little frustrating if caught in a situation where you cannot escape.

Perhaps balance in other ways?

 

I find strange things looking in old files!

[Joeybafoey]

If you're dedoing the docking port(s), could you look into making what's on top of them stage-able when I "Enable Staging"? If we can't do that, it's kinda hard to jettison the Hippo LES during a Soyuz launch.

[minepagan]

7 minutes ago, Beale said:

I don't know if that would be very fun, a little frustrating if caught in a situation where you cannot escape.

Perhaps balance in other ways?

I thought about that - but any way that I thought of meant making using it with the OM was under-powered, like increasing weight, cost, ect.

[Beale]

2 hours ago, Joeybafoey said:

If you're dedoing the docking port(s), could you look into making what's on top of them stage-able when I "Enable Staging"? If we can't do that, it's kinda hard to jettison the Hippo LES during a Soyuz launch.

I'm not sure I understand, example?  

2 hours ago, minepagan said:

I thought about that - but any way that I thought of meant making using it with the OM was under-powered, like increasing weight, cost, ect.

How about this? The cheap and basic Soyuz pod with no-door for early game (2-minute example).

Then the 2-seat version is unlocked later in the game?

Part clutter? 

 

0.625m Ports

Edited September 3, 2016 by Beale

[tjsnh]

Apropos balance discussions about the soyuz - in the next rev of my SSP mod, the soyuz will be tweaked significantly. Elec capacity very low, OM has good batteries, no mono, no reaction wheel, and a few other nerfs. I may have a second soyuz using one of Beale's recolors higher up the tech tree that isn't nerfed as badly.

I've noticed the same thing as others have mentioned, the basic soyuz mod is slightly OP on it's own, been working on ways to make it more balanced.

[NeoFatalis]

13 minutes ago, Beale said:

How about this? The cheap and basic Soyuz pod with no-door for early game (2-minute example).

Then the 2-seat version is unlocked later in the game?

Part clutter? 

I kinda like the idea of two different capsules altough I think they should look a bit more distinct....

[Joeybafoey]

29 minutes ago, Beale said:

I'm not sure I understand, example?  

If I right click a stock docking port, I have the option to use it as a decoupler (it comes in handy for getting rid of an LES), but when I try this in mods, it doesn't work. For a Tantares specific example: I'm putting my finishing touches on my Soyuz launcher, I right click on the docking probe to set it as a decoupler (so I can put it in a staging group with the fairing and LES), but it doesn't show up in the staging. It'd be kinda cool to see this work in your mod (it doesn't work for most mods, so it will set you apart from others).

[hraban]

3 hours ago, minepagan said:

@Beale, since you are redoing the Soyuz parts now seems like the perfect time:

In my career playthroughs, I've noticed that the Soyuz DM/Zond capsule is really, really overpowered. It's smaller than the MK1 command pod, only slightly heavier, yet has a 2 kerbal capacity and a built-in heatshield. To make it balanced, it really needs to have a way of having the OM needed, and not just be for show.

How about removing the hatch, or making the hatch be on top like the real soyuz/zond? That way you can still use it as a zond, but you can't use docking ports or anything.

There is a way to use the upper hatch from Soyus when a "airlock" is integrated. The mod Contares gives you a small .625 docking port with integrated airlock function. I hope Beale makes this function on APAS-Ports true.

[Beale]

2 hours ago, tjsnh said:

Apropos balance discussions about the soyuz - in the next rev of my SSP mod, the soyuz will be tweaked significantly. Elec capacity very low, OM has good batteries, no mono, no reaction wheel, and a few other nerfs. I may have a second soyuz using one of Beale's recolors higher up the tech tree that isn't nerfed as badly.

I've noticed the same thing as others have mentioned, the basic soyuz mod is slightly OP on it's own, been working on ways to make it more balanced.

 

2 hours ago, NeoFatalis said:

I kinda like the idea of two different capsules altough I think they should look a bit more distinct....

I would like sure, but it's difficult with the remaining texture space:
The most drastic change easily possible is to remove the "parachute horns" around the top of the capsule. Have a plain capsule like so:

1 hour ago, Joeybafoey said:

If I right click a stock docking port, I have the option to use it as a decoupler (it comes in handy for getting rid of an LES), but when I try this in mods, it doesn't work. For a Tantares specific example: I'm putting my finishing touches on my Soyuz launcher, I right click on the docking probe to set it as a decoupler (so I can put it in a staging group with the fairing and LES), but it doesn't show up in the staging. It'd be kinda cool to see this work in your mod (it doesn't work for most mods, so it will set you apart from others).

I will take a look, but I am not sure on the setup.

 

Shenzhou / Soyuz A.
Lacks some detail yet.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Beale

[NeoFatalis]

55 minutes ago, Beale said:

 

I would like sure, but it's difficult with the remaining texture space:
The most drastic change easily possible is to remove the "parachute horns" around the top of the capsule. Have a plain capsule like so:

I will take a look, but I am not sure on the setup.

 

Shenzhou / Soyuz A.
Lacks some detail yet.

Yeah I think it would be enough to make each one a bit more unique and the shenzhou looks great!

[minepagan]

3 hours ago, Beale said:

I'm not sure I understand, example?  

How about this? The cheap and basic Soyuz pod with no-door for early game (2-minute example).

Then the 2-seat version is unlocked later in the game?

Part clutter? 

 

0.625m Ports

Yeah, and then you could add the TMA version with 3 crew capacity somewhere along the line.

[Beale]

11 minutes ago, minepagan said:

 3 crew capacity

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are all the parts currently:

[Voidryder]

Why you not 3? Soyuz is most spacious.

[cxg2827]

@Voidryder You forget kerbals have massive helmets.

[Voidryder]

1 minute ago, cxg2827 said:

@Voidryder You forget kerbals have massive helmets.

PFFFFT! Just leave luggage behind for Dragon to bring to station. Ok, maybe control panel too. But can make 3 fit...with hammer. 

[Beale]

30 minutes ago, Voidryder said:

Why you not 3? Soyuz is most spacious.

Open the game,enable 'view interior' option next to Kerbal portraits.

Then you will have your answer to 'why not 3?'.  

 

But I always love these pictures! I think I would be very cosy in there! (200cm tall)

Edited September 3, 2016 by Beale

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Beale said:

Open the game,enable 'view interior' option next to Kerbal portraits.

Then you will have your answer to 'why not 3?'.  

 

But I always love these pictures! I think I would be very cosy in there! (200cm tall )

 

 

I think the word that applies here is "сардины" [sardines]. 

[Voidryder]

4 minutes ago, Beale said:

Open the game,enable 'view interior' option next to Kerbal portraits.

Then you will have your answer to 'why not 3?'.  

 

But I always love these pictures! I think I would be very cosy in there! (200cm tall)

 

1 minute ago, Jack Wolfe said:

I think the word that applies here is "сардины" [sardines]. 

LOL! That was point of my picture and tongue-in-cheek post. It is a bit "cozy" in Soyuz. But this way, if nose itch and you can't reach it, fellow cosmonaut can scratch for you!

[CobaltWolf]

Beale, I second the idea of removing almost all the functions of a command pod from the Descent Module. That is, after all, the whole philosophy of the Soyuz. Include only the bare minimum to allow reentry. Eliminate all the resources players would normally enjoy, and move them to the OM.

[Beale]

57 minutes ago, Voidryder said:

 

LOL! That was point of my picture and tongue-in-cheek post. It is a bit "cozy" in Soyuz. But this way, if nose itch and you can't reach it, fellow cosmonaut can scratch for you!

The joke flys right above my head .

The ability to scratch noses is worth the risk of no helmet for sure.

18 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Beale, I second the idea of removing almost all the functions of a command pod from the Descent Module. That is, after all, the whole philosophy of the Soyuz. Include only the bare minimum to allow reentry. Eliminate all the resources players would normally enjoy, and move them to the OM.

It's probably a good idea, 100 EC and 3 units of torque is quite powerful for the small capsule.

[tjsnh]

In regards to a 3-person soyuz, I played around a little bit at re-sizing the entire R-7 and Soyuz stack up to 1.875m scale, and it was a much better size to fit 3 kerbals. However the rescale caused a good amount of other problems that I wasn't able to compensate for "cleanly" so I scrapped the rescale idea in the revamp of my SSP mod. I may revisit the idea in the future, but IMHO it creates too much extra work since a lot of other parts (the whole TKS/VA series, the Blok-D tank, the LK lander, Salyut/Mir parts, etc) all need to be resized as well in order to look right.

At the end of the day, it's just too much work and creates too many odd bugs to justify the 3-crew Soyuz - especially when the VA fits 3.