[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[Legcutter]

12 hours ago, Beale said:

The old Progress it seems was very short, minimum Progress past and present has been similar length to the Soyuz, or up to half a metre taller (Original 1970s / 1980s Progress).

Soyuz-TM: 7.48 m
Progress-M: 7.23 m
Progress: 7.94 m

But... I've got two (p.s. more like four aldeady) sources telling that the early Progress was like 7,48 meters tall.

It's probably the early Soyuz was that tall due to that big docking port.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Legcutter

[Beale]

10 hours ago, curtquarquesso said:

Surprising to see the QOS docking window still in use.
I've since lost the original model for it, so to update it for new Tantares, I'd need to start from scratch.

I will need to make it sooner, rather than later, unless you want to pull on the reins again  

4 hours ago, TK-313 said:

Meanwhile, here's some TKS goodness on stock sized Kerbin. Oh my, launching that was such a good explanation to myself what exactly "wrong weight quantum" means. Stages 2 and 3 (even with block D added) don't have enough dV to put the hulking beast the TKS is to orbit, while using stage 1 looks like a total waste on a planet so small. So...
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Let's rob Korolev for some boosters! Just don't show him this monstrousity, I guess a keroLOX/hydrazine rocket is an odd thing even on Kerbin.

But oh well, odd or not, it flies like a dream.

Booster sep...

Pushing through the atmosphere...

Coasting to apoapsis, ready to circularise with block D. There will be just half the tank left by the end of the maneuver - definitely not something you'd cry over as it burns in the atmosphere.

Aaand we're there! The donut tank on top of the retro engines thing is a temporary measure, of course.

Also, here's my (yet another) idea of the TKS' RCS arrangement. Horribly inaccurate once again, but oh well.

All tests done, burning for reentry...

 

 

The TKS lives!

Beautiful launcher, nice mission  

52 minutes ago, Legcutter said:

But... I've got two (p.s. more like four aldeady) sources telling that the early Progress was like 7,48 meters tall.

It's probably the early Soyuz was that tall due to that big docking port.

Oh dear (But, in a good way, thank you).

This confuses a few things... Those sources would be much appreciated.

Awesome line drawings of the Soyuz / Progress though, they will be very useful.

[davidy12]

@Beale: May I ask, where's the Block G of the N-1?

[Legcutter]

3 hours ago, Beale said:

This confuses a few things... Those sources would be much appreciated.

Awesome line drawings of the Soyuz / Progress though, they will be very useful.

Since I'm convinced that refferring to russian (or any) Wikipedia is not a gentelman's way, here:

Progress and Progress-M

Edited April 27, 2017 by Legcutter

[Beale]

24 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

@Beale: May I ask, where's the Block G of the N-1?

It's in the TantaresLV pack, were you having some difficulty finding it?

There are three different tank sizes and a mid-size engine. (Type N1 in the VAB filter).

10 minutes ago, Legcutter said:

Since I'm convinced that refferring to russian (or any) Wikipedia is not a gentelman's way, here:

http://www.astronautix.com/p/progress.html

Nice! Many thanks.

So, it looks like identical to the Soyuz (7.48m) and a little bit shorter (7.23m).
This can all be handled by removing or including a trunk section exactly the same height as the Soyuz Decoupler.

I also only recently learned of the Progress-VDU with it's big fat belly... Would be an interesting addition maybe.

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Beale

[davidy12]

51 minutes ago, Beale said:

It's in the TantaresLV pack, were you having some difficulty finding it?

 

What am I looking for? Is it 2.5M?

[Beale]

11 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

What am I looking for? Is it 2.5M?

1.875m in diameter, if latest Github version they are white and yellow, if last release version they are grey.

The names:

• LQ-D6L 'Dolk' Rocket Motor
• LQ-3PL Rocket Propellant Tank
• LQ-C96 Rocket Propellant Tank
• LQ-8MN Rocket Propellant Tank

Hope this helps.

I should actually include the Blok-G in the first-page screenshots now that I notice it.  

 

 

By the way, everyone's feelings on N1 colour scheme? Do you want brighter white? White and brown? Black and white?
 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Beale

[dimovski]

1 hour ago, Legcutter said:

Since I'm convinced that refferring to russian (or any) Wikipedia is not a gentelman's way, here:

Progress and Progress-M

Whilst Astronautix may be vastly better than Wikipedia in some regards, it has its fair share of problems, too. E.g. the N-IM 1965 has in its description an engine upgrade to 250 tons of thrust, whilst giving around 2800kN of thrust per engine.

However, Beale's source may have suffered from a double-typo - 8 before the 4 & 9 instead of 8...

[Beale]

24 minutes ago, dimovski said:

However, Beale's source may have suffered from a double-typo - 8 before the 4 & 9 instead of 8...

My source is good-old-wikipedia, I doubt a typo, as it also has this sentence:
'It had the same diameter as the Soyuz at 2.2 metres, but was 8 metres in length—slightly longer.'

But, I have some good reason to doubt this now!  

The Russian Wikipedia page also says 7.48m FYI. The English Wikipedia article is probably from older Western sources -  the same kind how the TKS radiators were confused for solar panels misconception came about.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Beale

[Legcutter]

2 hours ago, Beale said:

'It had the same diameter as the Soyuz at 2.2 metres, but was 8 metres in length—slightly longer.'

Or it could be measured as height with a docking probe.

[KosmoPatch]

2 hours ago, Beale said:

1.875m in diameter, if latest Github version they are white and yellow, if last release version they are grey.

The names:

• LQ-D6L 'Dolk' Rocket Motor
• LQ-3PL Rocket Propellant Tank
• LQ-C96 Rocket Propellant Tank
• LQ-8MN Rocket Propellant Tank

Hope this helps.

I should actually include the Blok-G in the first-page screenshots now that I notice it.  

 

 

By the way, everyone's feelings on N1 colour scheme? Do you want brighter white? White and brown? Black and white?
 

Pure white and grey or only white, but bright white. Just like 3L, 5L, 6L and 7L.

[curtquarquesso]

5 hours ago, Beale said:

I will need to make it sooner, rather than later, unless you want to pull on the reins again  

Go for it. I'm still re-learning Wings3D, and have yet to get Unity up and running again.

[TK-313]

Just now, KosmoPatch said:

Pure white and grey or only white, but bright white. Just like 3L, 5L, 6L and 7L.

Second that. A grey N1 just doesn't feel right.

[Beale]

1 hour ago, Legcutter said:

Or it could be measured as height with a docking probe.

It's possible, but it would be strange to measure from the probe for Progress and not for the Soyuz (Talking about the 'progress was longer' snippet).

34 minutes ago, KosmoPatch said:

Pure white and grey or only white, but bright white. Just like 3L, 5L, 6L and 7L.

The classic progression from black to white, I love the N1 development  

 

 

@curtquarquesso Let's get this show on-the-road  

Edited April 27, 2017 by Beale

[Kerbal01]

wheres the progress bits?

[onlinegamesz]

Since I installed this mod and reading the thread regularly i'm really fascinated by the soviet space program (compared to the US space program).

When the TKS docks to the salyut, the FGB stays permanently docked but the VA pod does separate and go back to earth? atleast thats what I read with the kosmos 1267 that docked the Salyut 6, or is this just only with the kosmos 1267 and normally the whole TKS module separates?

[Abrecan]

National Cooperation

btw, @Beale was propellant added to the TKS retro engines as of yet?

and also, I believe the lunar version of the Soyuz had fuel cells instead of PVAs, can this also be added to the engine part?

Your parts are amazing

[Beale]

8 minutes ago, Abrecan said:

National Cooperation

btw, @Beale was propellant added to the TKS retro engines as of yet?

and also, I believe the lunar version of the Soyuz had fuel cells instead of PVAs, can this also be added to the engine part?

Your parts are amazing

That's awesome! I love mashups  

TKS retro, I'll fix that tonight.

Lunar soyuz fuel cell, I must have forgotten to do that, sure.

 

15 minutes ago, DarthVader said:

wheres the progress bits?

?

 

14 minutes ago, onlinegamesz said:

Since I installed this mod and reading the thread regularly i'm really fascinated by the soviet space program (compared to the US space program).

When the TKS docks to the salyut, the FGB stays permanently docked but the VA pod does separate and go back to earth? atleast thats what I read with the kosmos 1267 that docked the Salyut 6, or is this just only with the kosmos 1267 and normally the whole TKS module separates?

It's all very interesting  Good question, I did a little digging.

You are correct, usually and planned (But, this was only done once or twice IIRC) the TKS separates as a whole, then the VA separates and goes home (VA could fly alone for just over a day, the whole TKS quite a little big longer).
Salyut 6 was different, I would guess, because the TKS arrived after the last crew had left, so there was no worry about depresurisation, etc. if they just separated the VA straight away.

I might be wrong, but it looks like the FGB section of Kosmos 1267 de-orbited still attached to Salyut 6. Same case for Kosmos 1686 on Salyut 7, but that was actually manned, so the VA remained attached (It had the engine removed and replaced with science equipment anyway).

Edited April 27, 2017 by Beale

[Beale]

VA Balance.

Engine has fuel, still FX to do. All parts have tags and descriptions.

[onlinegamesz]

Awesome, thanks for the information, really interesting this all.

And great stuff, keep up the good work!

(BTW also awesome new plugin you made, a couple of days ago I wanted to do this all manually and write it up in a notepad haha, thank you for saving me all this time).

[Beale]

It's all you ever wanted.
I would love to see what others can come up with for a Duna landing... Modified LK maybe?

 Plenty enough DV to land and return to orbit. But, not the best design.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Beale

[Beale]

More stuff on GitHub.

Major balancing to the VA engine, with new FX, and a folding IGLA dish.

[TheAceOfHearts]

Is there a way the radio receiver antenna could be put on an angled folding mount like the L-HG1 High gain antenna? This would make it look a lot like the receiver on the front of the early soyuzes.

[Legcutter]

15 hours ago, onlinegamesz said:

When the TKS docks to the salyut, the FGB stays permanently docked but the VA pod does separate and go back to earth? atleast thats what I read with the kosmos 1267 that docked the Salyut 6, or is this just only with the kosmos 1267 and normally the whole TKS module separates?

 

15 hours ago, Beale said:

You are correct, usually and planned (But, this was only done once or twice IIRC) the TKS separates as a whole, then the VA separates and goes home (VA could fly alone for just over a day, the whole TKS quite a little big longer).
Salyut 6 was different, I would guess, because the TKS arrived after the last crew had left, so there was no worry about depresurisation, etc. if they just separated the VA straight away.

I might be wrong, but it looks like the FGB section of Kosmos 1267 de-orbited still attached to Salyut 6. Same case for Kosmos 1686 on Salyut 7, but that was actually manned, so the VA remained attached (It had the engine removed and replaced with science equipment anyway).

The FGB itself acts as a little space station - with 5.2 tons of cargo, 3.8 tons of fuel, big solar panels and thrusters it was capable of providing the Salyut station crew with some useful stuff, power, throttle, working space and a giant disposable trash bin after all. And since such amounts of payload and fuel cannot be fully used in a week or two, TKS can stay on orbit up to 90 days (probably up to 180 days later as it was for Soyuz) docked to station without VA, acting as a one-Soyuz-and-two-Progress-in-one-single-launch-ship - performing crew rotation and extencive long-therm supply. Next crew rotation can be held by good ol' Soyuz at the second docking port.

And there were no depressurisation, since a lot of Salyut internal systems are presumed to operate at an "indoor temperature" - I refer to Salyut-7 saving operation by Soyuz-13.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Legcutter

[Beale]

18 hours ago, TheAceOfHearts said:

Is there a way the radio receiver antenna could be put on an angled folding mount like the L-HG1 High gain antenna? This would make it look a lot like the receiver on the front of the early soyuzes.

I am planning counterpart antennas to the current parts oriented for Soyuz / similar craft  

16 hours ago, Legcutter said:

 

The FGB itself acts as a little space station - with 5.2 tons of cargo, 3.8 tons of fuel, big solar panels and thrusters it was capable of providing the Salyut station crew with some useful stuff, power, throttle, working space and a giant disposable trash bin after all. And since such amounts of payload and fuel cannot be fully used in a week or two, TKS can stay on orbit up to 90 days (probably up to 180 days later as it was for Soyuz) docked to station without VA, acting as a one-Soyuz-and-two-Progress-in-one-single-launch-ship - performing crew rotation and extencive long-therm supply. Next crew rotation can be held by good ol' Soyuz at the second docking port.

And there were no depressurisation, since a lot of Salyut internal systems are presumed to operate at an "indoor temperature" - I refer to Salyut-7 saving operation by Soyuz-13.

Nice background, many thanks.