Release: BobCat Ind. Space&Planet products

[Guest]

OK, the Proton is updated. Also, uploaded the Falcon 2 VTOL engine.

[MaxP]

Dragon01, what kind of update?

[MaxP]

Uhh... Finally, I've done with RSS configuration for almost all crafts in Bobcat's Soviet pack.

Just unpack in GameData.

Nor career support ("science" deleted), nor real stats 1:1, but very close to. Real-like payload is the main objective.

Requires: RSS + RO (+RF + FAR + AJE - all the required for RO).

Supports: Deadly Reentry, RealChute, IFILS simplified life support system, RemoteTech2.

List of changes:

- ÃÂ1-Û3 (N1+LOK+LK), T1+LOX on N1, UDMH+N2O4 on LK descent pod, MMH+N2O4 on LOK AO, Hydrazine on RCS.

Heatshield added to LOK descent pod and its parachute (otherwise it burns on reentry, kind of a bug), comes with edited RealChute config (contained a couple of errors, author will fix it with next release).

- "Soyuz" 11A511: T1+LOX config, configured to deliver 7-8 tonn payload to LEO, no more;

- "Fregat" booster: T1+LOX config;

- 7K-OK ("Soyuz-TMA"): 7-7,5 t wet;

- "Mir" station modules, some MMH+N2O4 for orbital manuevres, some antennas and electic charge added (plus life support). Needs to be fully charged and refilled, use general recomendation on station assembly. "Mir" docking cap fixed (had incorrect size);

- Luna-17: UDMH+N204 for lander engines, omni- and dish antennas and SPU added to Lunokhod.

- "Buran" shuttle: ~60 t dry, ~100 t wet, syntin + LOX for main engines, Hydrazine for RCS, Kerosene for AJE-enabled jet engines (config file Buran.cfg need to be placed in AJE folder). Of course, the ablative heatshield.

For successful reentry keep ~15 degrees to surface, it can be easily done with MechJeb;

- "Progress-M" freight ship (~7,5 t wet, ~2,5 t of payload);

- "Kliper": 13-15 t wet, 7-8 t dry, ~1 t of cargo. Reentry is fairly complicated, but possible ))

- "Energia", T1+LOX for the first stage, LH2+LOX in cryogenic tank for the second one, real fuel/oxidizer ratio.

- Also contains config for OLDD's "Proton-K", I like it a little more - UDMH+N2O4.

Anyway, if you have any troubles or/and remarks, feel free to modify and share, cause this config is very far from being entirely correct.

P.S. I've done another fix for RtfS+RF problem. With RtfS some of engines have different sizes - most of SRB's, LFE like Dux/Commes and Griffon Century/Titan V and others, due to conflicting with StockAlike_Engines_RF.cfg, which nevertheless contains config for other engines, not covered by RtfS.

More or less, I've corrected this. It's just rescaling and deleting conflicted entries from StockAlike config, without changing any stats, for covering the most range of engines.

Unpack, copy and overwrite files.

Edited September 10, 2014 by MaxP

[Guest]

Why on earth are you turning the Soyuz into 7K-OK? TMA is TMA, Raidernick made an Ok-looking 7K-OK if you want that. Also most of the data is out of whack, highly rounded and/or inaccurate (no HTP-powered turbopump on Soyuz, for example). Oh, and I noticed you didn't rescale the models at all. They're modeled in (roughly) 64% scale, meaning you need to scale them up by varying amounts (there are some minor scaling differences). Also, you removed the life support, (even though RO supports TAC LS mod) using a completely different mod (one way too simple, at that), didn't add FAR support for Buran (absolutely vital) and missed a whole bunch of other, essential features. Realism? I don't think so. Barring a big rescale of fuel volumes, I could've gotten better results by throwing in my old configs from early RSS.

For the record, Buran burns Syntin in both main engine, turbojets and in the RCS system. With gaseous oxygen for the latter, no less. My old pack had this working, more or less. Soyuz should be configurable to multiple versions, including a Syntin-burning one (U2). Most RCS systems you made hydrazine-burning were bipropellant, using UDMH+N2O4 (this includes Mir, Soviets didn't use MMH). Luna 17 ran on nitric acid and UDMH (NK actually added nitric acid to RF because of this. I asked him to). If you're making stuff for Realism Overhaul, you better make sure it's actually realistic. As it stands, it's not.

This pack is made to a highest standard me and BobCat can manage. Any RO config will be so as well. It's a lot of work adapting stuff, but it will be 100% real in every possible aspect once I'm done with it. I've already started experimenting with SmokeScreen (using FASA, Soviet configs aren't ready yet) to give the rockets realistic engine effects. It'll take a lot of time for me to get this done, but you're going to like the results (well, aside from the fact you'll have to use TAC. No generic "life support" resource allowed). I'll possibly do OLDD stuff as well, while I'm at it (there's significant overlap).

Dragon01, what kind of update?

NaN cost/disappearing COM fix. A small one.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Guest

[MaxP]

Why on earth are you turning the Soyuz into 7K-OK? TMA is TMA

TMA, of course, not 7K-OK ))

no HTP-powered turbopump on Soyuz, for example

For what reason, you've not answered? What kind of module? There is not a big problem to add something in config, but I can't imagine, what that turbopump will do.

Will just consume HTP? And increasing vessel mass?

Oh, and I noticed you didn't rescale the models at all. They're modeled in (roughly) 64% scale, meaning you need to scale them up by varying amounts (there are some minor scaling differences).

Yes, I can't do a rescale correctly. But till I have other crafts not rescaled, I don't want Proton to be smaller than Soyuz.

So, for now, all russian crafts are scaled properly.

And remember, that, at least, you need to change nodes appropriate to new scale.

Also, you removed the life support, (even though RO supports TAC LS mod) using a completely different mod (one way too simple, at that)

With TAC, I think, there is too much micromanagement. Anyway, TAC will add resources and modules to all "command" parts, so there is no enhanced support, like over 9000 resources for "Mir".

didn't add FAR support for Buran (absolutely vital)

But it works, and flies well enough. What else? It doesn't need to fly "like a Phoenix" or Aichi Zen.

I'm so famailiar with modding and FAR, as you with my native language, don't blame me )) I'm doing it without an expectation of any kind of reward, and the reason is very simple.

I repeat again: I didn't saw any historical craft (russian anyway), that has 1:1 stats and has 1:1 payload ability.

Please, show me just one, and we will have something to talk about.

Barring a big rescale of fuel volumes

Really? For 5 days I was trying to achieve real-life payload capability, and it works.

Do you think it is only fuel volumes? ))

This pack is made to a highest standard me and BobCat can manage. Any RO config will be so as well

So you have a dilemma )) - to play with config that makes vessels just a bit real-like, or not to play at all, cause there is no adequate config.

I've made my choice. Peoples will do their one.

Wanna play with TAC and different values in cfg? Please welcome, I do not force you or someone else to use something, at all ))

And, if a rocket can deliver a realistic mass to realistic orbit altitude, don't you think there is no matter what values are in the config files?

Formalism can be dangerous.

And wanna to laugh? Yes, you've made Realism Pack 1.1, from which I get some entries for beginning. But you even didn't launch it.

Let's take a look at your Soyuz from Communism realism: BobCat's Soviet Pack for RSS.

The part must be named SoyuzU_First_stagelateralbooster, not SoyuzU_First_stage_lateral_booster, otherwise it doesn't work. And not "Soyuz U First stage lateral booster", like in old pack.

As with Soyuz_TMA_InstrumentServiseModule, which is Soyuz_TMA_InstrumentServiceModule in original. It doesn't work.

The nodes not properly adjusted after rescaling, so it is impossible to do correct third stage installation.

Surfaces not properly adjusted, first stage is disappearing in second one.

Third stage has a different diameter than second one in flight.

Stages are configured for LiquidFuel+LiquidOxygen, but have cofiguration only for Syntin+LiquidOxygen, so it will be impossible to fill RF tanks.

Next, why Syntin? RD-107 and RD-108 uses T1 kerosene. Syntin is used in "Buran" main engines, not "Soyuz".

First stage parameters are incorrect - real counterpart's wet mass is 43 t, not 12 (!).

Second stage parameters are incorrect - real wet mass is 100 t, not 27,5 t (!)

Third stage parameters are incorrect, it has to be 0,4/25 t, not 1/5.9 t.

The real rocket start mass is 307 t, not 97.

Do I need to continue?

Almost all part are incorrect and absolutely unusable.

Well, well... May be, with your config we can easily climb to LEO? Go away, realism, we're wanna to deliver our odd-looking Soyuz ship to orbit!

Hm... Know what? We can't climb for any orbit.

It starts as bullet with 4.54 TWR and stops before 100 km.

But Jules Verne would be happy for half a minute.

And what kind of realism we're talking about? I've spend hours launching real payloads and calibrating values, you're entering "real values", drop it to the forum with new thread and feeling happy, with half broken config.

I think, you're just a young and self-opinionated man.

Edited September 10, 2014 by MaxP

[Beowolf]

@Dragon01 and @BobCat, I just started playing with the Tesla rover last night, and am loving it! I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but the cargo compartment PERFECTLY holds two large KAS containers and racks. Was that on-purpose? I didn't think I was going to like it since it was missing features like lights. But when combined with TweakEverything, so many possibilities opened up!

For easier loading, I changed the .cfg to use FSanimateGeneric and now can open/close the doors in the VAB. The one thing that gives me trouble is I can't fit anything inside the mid cargo bay. Even a 25% scale small KAS container shows through the door when it's closed. Looks to me like surface-mount objects are attaching to the empty space where the door was, rather than the back of the compartment. I don't know how easy that'd be to fix, and I can certainly live without it if necessary.

It's wonderful to have new BobCat equipment after all this time. Thank you both for all your hard work!

Edited September 10, 2014 by Beowolf

[Guest]

Yes, you've made Realism Pack 1.1, from which I get some entries for beginning. But you even didn't launch it.

Let's take a look at your Soyuz from Communism realism: BobCat's Soviet Pack for RSS.

The part must be named SoyuzU_First_stagelateralbooster, not SoyuzU_First_stage_lateral_booster, otherwise it doesn't work. And not "Soyuz U First stage lateral booster", like in old pack.

As with Soyuz_TMA_InstrumentServiseModule, which is Soyuz_TMA_InstrumentServiceModule in original. It doesn't work.

The nodes not properly adjusted after rescaling, so it is impossible to do correct third stage installation.

Surfaces not properly adjusted, first stage is disappearing in second one.

Third stage has a different diameter than second one in flight.

Stages are configured for LiquidFuel+LiquidOxygen, but have cofiguration only for Syntin+LiquidOxygen, so it will be impossible to fill RF tanks.

First stage parameters are incorrect - real counterpart's wet mass is 43 t, not 12 (!).

Second stage parameters are incorrect - real wet mass is 100 t, not 27,5 t (!)

Third stage parameters are incorrect, it has to be 0,4/25 t, not 1/5.9 t.

The real rocket start mass is 307 t, not 97.

Do I need to continue?

Do you realize what RO version it was made for, right? A hint: not the current one. Do some research, will you? Do you realize how much time did I spend on this pack? I did give it real values, because it's supposed to represent a real rocket. And it used to work. It doesn't now, and you know why? Because I re-released the Soviet pack with many fixes, tweaks and adjustments this old config doesn't account for. You clearly have no idea about how development of RO really went. This "big rescale of fuel volumes" was not anything in your config, but the very thing that made mine obsolete - NK adjusted the volumes in RF, making all old configs unusable. If you've been around longer, you'll know it from "LiquidFuel+LiquidOxygen"-that's how you did kerolox those days. I suppose not everyone has been around for so long, but I'd appreciate if you checked post dates before complaining. I've been with Realism Overhaul from the very beginning.

So you have a dilemma )) - to play with config that makes vessels just a bit real-like, or not to play at all, cause there is no adequate config.

I've made my choice. Peoples will do their one.

Wanna play with TAC and different values in cfg? Please welcome, I do not force you or someone else to use something, at all ))

And, if a rocket can deliver a realistic mass to realistic orbit altitude, don't you think there is no matter what values are in the config files?

Formalism can be dangerous.

Well, I can also re-make my config, can't I? And unlike yours, it will behave correctly under all conditions. Say, what about swapping out an upper stage? I could do that, you could not. Your rocket is "balanced", but the moment you reconfigure it, it'll fall apart. My versions performed realistically under all possible configurations, and there were quite a few (Soyuz U2, for instance). It's been hard to get right, but I did it once and I'll do it again.

Just put a big, fat disclaimer in your post that your remake actually has little in common with reality.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Guest

[MaxP]

And unlike yours, it will behave correctly under all conditions

It doesn't behave correctly now, what kind of conditions do you need?

What about we talking about? You can make new, working, config? Come on, make it.

My versions

"My versions" of what? Your broken old config or something else? If you have updated working config, please, share it, we'll test.

I look forward to new releases.

Your old config 1.1 is absolutely useless.

[NathanKell]

Think it's time I posted a good old fashioned KSP Forum Moderation Team

poster.

Please remember that you share the same goal, and the same passion. Don't be enemies.

[Shadowzdestroyer]

thats weird because i cant seem to find it, hmm ill keep trying tho thx!

[Guest]

It doesn't behave correctly now, what kind of conditions do you need?

What about we talking about? You can make new, working, config? Come on, make it.

It's in the works. Suffering from my usual "implement all the things!" attitude, but it's coming. Currently working on expanding engine effects via Smokescreen. I could, perhaps, roll out an updated overhaul config, without all the neat things I've got planned. I'm having way too much fun with Smokescreen now, though. I want to at least have HotRockets-based particles, with B9-style expanding plumes. Aside from that, it'll be at least as good as the old pack used to be before it broke. Hopefully, it'll be even better. FAR data for the Buran is already, for most part, determined, many small changes to the "base" (64% scaled one) were made to accomodate the FAR configs. Previously, FAR caused the Buran to spin out of control, which I hopefully mitigated. If everything goes right, you'll be able to fly it around like OK-GLI with just two additional jets thrown in.

[sp1989]

It's in the works. Suffering from my usual "implement all the things!" attitude, but it's coming. Currently working on expanding engine effects via Smokescreen. I could, perhaps, roll out an updated overhaul config, without all the neat things I've got planned. I'm having way too much fun with Smokescreen now, though. I want to at least have HotRockets-based particles, with B9-style expanding plumes. Aside from that, it'll be at least as good as the old pack used to be before it broke. Hopefully, it'll be even better. FAR data for the Buran is already, for most part, determined, many small changes to the "base" (64% scaled one) were made to accomodate the FAR configs. Previously, FAR caused the Buran to spin out of control, which I hopefully mitigated. If everything goes right, you'll be able to fly it around like OK-GLI with just two additional jets thrown in.

Whats the most recent status of the ISS pack. I really want to get back to making my ISS.

[Guest]

BobCat is "working on it". The solar panel truss is still broken, I hope for a big remake of it. If I manage to catch him, I'll ask him about progress. Otherwise, it should work, I think.

[NathanKell]

Dragon01: you might also want to raid this for ferram4's work on FX for all the engines we used. It's got excellent FX for the F-1 for example, which when scaled should work for most kerolox engines that are underexpanded in vacuum.

[gavindresser1985]

Just a quick one, been mucking about with the American Pack whilst eagerly awaiting the update, trying to work out how to recode RPM for the new version, makes for interesting learning which I thoroughly enjoy. Couple of quick questions mind, with the version I have when I load up anything in the VAB i appear to have a glitched IVA model protruding from the floor. Does anyone know if this is likely a model issue? I cant think of any plugins likely to cause this and it disappears with the removal of the Orion and the Altair/lander models? Also is the American pack still being worked on, I have a funny feeling it will all work much better when fixed by people who know what they are doing haha!

[Guest]

Dragon01: you might also want to raid this for ferram4's work on FX for all the engines we used. It's got excellent FX for the F-1 for example, which when scaled should work for most kerolox engines that are underexpanded in vacuum.

I'll try this, always good to have more particles. I see you also have a faint hydrolox effect, too. That's just what I've been missing.

[sp1989]

BobCat is "working on it". The solar panel truss is still broken, I hope for a big remake of it. If I manage to catch him, I'll ask him about progress. Otherwise, it should work, I think.

Is there no way to fix the current solar panel truss system? I mean you might not like it but I am sure its holding a lot of people up. I mean you can use the Kosmos solar panels but last time I checked that thread there are serious issues with that pack as well. I mean I am not a modder and I don't code but there is no quick fix for the panels? I mean waiting for bobcat it could be next week or next year. As of now the ISS pack is the only "True" ISS pack out there. I mean we have all made look alike and stock alike ISS's with various packs but its just not the same.

[Titler]

Good grief the installation for this is unbelievably messy; running from the first post trying to get it all working again, there are the following issues...

* The Buran doesn't have a craft file

* The N1L3 leaves it's craft file loose, and has to be manually moved into Ships after extracting to the KSP folder.

* The Soyuz zip isn't sorted correctly so you have to guess where the folders go (Bobcat and SovietPack into Gamedata)

* Lunokhod has multiple issues; The Luna-Lunkohhod craft file is broken;

The Luna 17 works, but there is neither a craft file nor a sub-assembly for a completed Lunokhod to put on it, so you have to manually set one up; if you want the Lunokhod to be the first stage you need a Luna 17 sub-assembly too.

* The MIR has no complete craft file, and no longer includes the PDF which shows how to build it.

* The Proton subassembly doesn't have a cost in Career mode, probably because the Shroud doesn't seem to be unlocked at the same time as the rest of the Proton system, so it cannot be used (NaN error, you can't afford this)

When combined with the Vostok crafts from Space Factory, they don't recognise the rocket parts (Soyuz, Proton) now unfortunately, but you can at least swap in the subassembly versions to use them ... but that would be a SF problem I imagine.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Titler

[Guest]

There's no Luna-Lunokhod .craft file I'm shipping. Most of those are likely SF issues. In general, I don't usually bother with .craft files, building those ships yourself is easy enough. I'm currently in progress of updating everything, though. Will take some time, but I'll get to it.

[Titler]

There's no Luna-Lunokhod .craft file I'm shipping. Most of those are likely SF issues. In general, I don't usually bother with .craft files, building those ships yourself is easy enough. I'm currently in progress of updating everything, though. Will take some time, but I'll get to it.

Craft files will help you bug locate however as you'll know people are using the correct set up... regarding the Proton, the problem in career mode seems to be a bug with the Second Stage; it is purchased (I went back and checked them all to be sure), but when building with it just generates the NaN error. The third stage also doesn't seem to have enough thrust to lift off the launch pad at all? I tried that in sandbox to be sure and it also didn't lift off there either.

I'll try and fly some of the others tomorrow...

[Guest]

NaNs on the Proton should be fixed as of very recently. Unless there was an upload error. Redownload, just to be sure.

[hieywiey]

Try here for ISS

I get a 404 when I try, could you upload the .craft file yourself?

[kenbobo]

Murica pack???? Wheres the love for it?

[Guest]

WIP, waiting for engine effects from Nazari. Though if he doesn't respond soon, I'll release it anyway.

Also, regarding RSS stuff, most flames except large hypergolics are done (still can't find a fitting particle), currently working on solid and kerolox smoke. If anyone has a good effect for large hypergolic engine (Proton, Titan II, Long March, Ariane 4), I'd gladly use it.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Guest

[NathanKell]

Well, it's probably going to differ between staged and gas generator, yeah? Nazari was working on one at one point though IIRC.