[0.25] Realism Overhaul w/ RedAV8R [Terminated]

[RedAV8R]

1. Procedural Tanks has the option of creating a pressurized tank (service module type). I haven't talked with NK yet, but I'm thinking of doing something with say RCS tanks to add what fuels they carry and ensure they are pressurized. But baring that change, PP tanks are your friend.

2. Actually regardless of what it is, TEATEB or not, warping will use an ignition. Once again, since RO is simply a set of MM configuration files, and has nothing to do with the inner workings of EI or any other dependency, RO simply offers a configuration with engines to use it, that is an EI issue. Might try shutting down the engine before warping, warp, then before activating the engine again ensure your throttle is at 0. See what happens and report back.

[HoneyFox]

1. Where are the pressurized tanks that the EADS Astrium Astius II engine uses? It says I need pressurized tanks but I can't seem to find them. Did I miss a required mod or something? If I already have the tanks, how do I pressurize them?

2. When you have an engine that still has a TEATEB left to ignite it, if you go to 10x time warp and then come back out of time warp to 1x, it seams to waste the igniter. Is this a bug that hasn't been tracked down yet? Is it an Engine Igniter problem or one of RO?

Thanks.

Use ServiceModule tank, I don't know what other tanks are designed to be ServiceModule but you can always use ProceduralParts' tank and set the type to ServiceModule.

For mysterious ignition wasting, it seems to be something wrong with EI. I'm checking this issue and trying to reproduce it.

EDIT: Ok tested and reproduced...

Will see where the problem is and how to fix that. it seems like the throttle of the engine is non-zero for a very short period of time, and it does NOT always happen when exiting from a time-warp...

Edited August 30, 2014 by HoneyFox

[Bothersome]

Thanks guys, to work around the ignitor wasting, just had to shut down engine and then reactivate it before it's needed.

I'll install the procedural parts. I didn't install it because it wasn't on the required list.

Thanks again for the heads up.

[HoneyFox]

Ok. after several tests and lots of debug output, I think I get the reason of the ignition wasting bug:

When entering time-warp, the vessel will be packed. When exiting from time-warp, the vessel will be unpacked.

When unpacking the vessel, the ModuleEngineConfigs.OnInitialize() will be called, in which ModuleEnginesConfig.SetConfiguration() { ... ModuleEnginesConfigs.DoConfig(); ... pModule.Load(config); ... } will be called.

For an engine that is not fully throttle-able, i.e. minThrust is non-zero, even if the vessel.ctrlState.mainThrottle is zero, the engine will burn and produce thrust = minThrust.

Although RF resets the engine's minThrust to zero when it detects zero throttle, this might happen later than ME/MEFX's FixedUpdate() in that frame. (hence the calculated thrust is non-zero and EI will consider that as an ignition)

Perhaps we can check throttle / call SetThrust() after pModule.Load(config), so that the minThrust will be set to 0 if it's zero throttle. I'm not familiar with the DoConfig() logic (looks like it has some complex logic about throttle) so this suggestion might be wrong.

[chrisb2e9]

This mod is amazing. I didn't even know it existed, with over 600 hours put into the game. I have no intention of installing it. yet... Maybe in the future.

just wanted to drop in and say how impressed I am with all of the hard work that has been put into this mod.

Keep up the good work!

[jandcando]

Ok. after several tests and lots of debug output, I think I get the reason of the ignition wasting bug:

When entering time-warp, the vessel will be packed. When exiting from time-warp, the vessel will be unpacked.

When unpacking the vessel, the ModuleEngineConfigs.OnInitialize() will be called, in which ModuleEnginesConfig.SetConfiguration() { ... ModuleEnginesConfigs.DoConfig(); ... pModule.Load(config); ... } will be called.

For an engine that is not fully throttle-able, i.e. minThrust is non-zero, even if the vessel.ctrlState.mainThrottle is zero, the engine will burn and produce thrust = minThrust.

Although RF resets the engine's minThrust to zero when it detects zero throttle, this might happen later than ME/MEFX's FixedUpdate() in that frame. (hence the calculated thrust is non-zero and EI will consider that as an ignition)

Perhaps we can check throttle / call SetThrust() after pModule.Load(config), so that the minThrust will be set to 0 if it's zero throttle. I'm not familiar with the DoConfig() logic (looks like it has some complex logic about throttle) so this suggestion might be wrong.

It's very good to hear that the reason behind ignition wasting bug is discovered! That one was always very annoying.

[chicknblender]

I second the excitement about the warp/ignition bug!

Is there a problem with the size or of the Merlin engines? I have found numerous sources showing the diameter of the Falcon 9 rocket to be 3.66 m, but a procedural tank of that size is nowhere near large enough to fit 9 engines underneath. Even with parts clipping, it's pushing it.

The real thing:

In RO with parts clipped:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I understand that this might just be a limitation of the current development process! Loving this mod, and until about a month ago I didn't love *any* mods.

[RedAV8R]

Not a limitation of the development process. The "problem" is the model is not modeled after the Merlin, it's a stock-alike engine that has been given 'approximate' size with Merlin performance. It is what it is.

[NathanKell]

chicknblender: If you want actual Merlins, LazTek and KerbX have actual Merlins (that RO makes, err, actual actual Merlins).

HoneyFox: Did you check git? I thought I added a fix a few weeks ago for that issue, but maybe I didn't. I know ferram poked me about that issue (i.e. one frame of thrust) and I thought I added a fix. If you're using the latest from git and it's still doing it, let me know and I'll deal with it (possibly again).

[mattcooperkay]

So forgive me if I'm completely missing the obvious, but I can't seem to launch! Engines keep flaming out, saying they're liquid oxygen deprived... Any help? Cheers

[JTG]

I've installed all of the mods (And then some) and whenever I try to load up KSP it just stops on an Engine from AIES Aerospace. I removed this mod and it stopped on an engine from KW Rocketry. Something is happening to my engines!

Mods used: Active Texture Management, AIES Aerospace, AJE, ALCOR Capsule, Custom Biomes, Real Solar System, Engine Ignitor, FAR, Porkworks' Habitats, KAS, KJR, KW Rocketry, ModuleRCSFX, 6S Tubes, Procedural Fairings, Procedural parts + Textures, Realchute, RemoteTech, Texture Replacer, TAC Life Support, VNG Parachutes and tweakscale.

KSP.log: http://www./download/dro48jy2aafy6yj/KSP.log

[NathanKell]

mattcooperkay: Sounds like maybe you didn't add propellant to your tanks?

JTG: Please check the Modded Support forum and in particular follow the directions in the sticky.

[HoneyFox]

HoneyFox: Did you check git? I thought I added a fix a few weeks ago for that issue, but maybe I didn't. I know ferram poked me about that issue (i.e. one frame of thrust) and I thought I added a fix. If you're using the latest from git and it's still doing it, let me know and I'll deal with it (possibly again).

I checked the codebase and only this commit seems to be related.

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/commit/97c171ba14108b51ad2c8d5c9aa33d49f316e924

But OnStart() doesn't seem to be called when being unpacked. OnInitialize() will be called, though.

[NathanKell]

That would do it! Thanks, will fix.

[Derpotron]

ISSUE

KSP stops loading when it reaches squad/Parts/Engine/engine3. Before, RedAV8R files did the same. Can exit and quit KSP, KSP just stops loading where it is.

STEPS

Install all the required mods.

Load up 32 bit KSP (64 bit can't run half of these mods).

When using only 1 version of module manager you can see there are 948 patches, 80 hidden.

Loads until about 3/4 of the way through, then stops loading. The bar stops going. No crash.

WHAT I TRIED

-Install Active Texture Management.

-Uninstall all unnecessary mods.

-Uninstall all but latest Module Manager.

-Remove RedAV8r files that were causing the game to stop loading before.

-Install Aggressive Active Texture Management.

-Lower render settings via launcher.

OTHER COMMENT

With 16GB of RAM on Windows 7 64 bit, running KSP 32 bit, I can't see what went wrong. I see other people installed more mods, and it still works fine with them. Thank you.

[NathanKell]

While following the guideline and posting log would let me say for sure, I'm guessing you don't have RealFuels installed correctly. Can't say more until you follow the guidelines...if you need a longer-form version, use the sticky in the Support (modded) forum. In particular: I need the output/player log, not ksp.log.

[Bothersome]

I'll give you a little heads up on these crashing issues...

It might not be the mods that are causing the problem. Here is what happened to me.

Playing in Career mode on RO and all the other goodies, KSP64 crashes (again) to the desktop. But it was the first time it crashed in about 8 hours playing.

What I was doing was making a lot of short launches to get science from testing parts. I was switching back and forth from a landed relay probe that was sitting on the runway trying to find a stable platform to keep those damn antennas from popping lose every time I switch ships (no success yet btw).

Anyway, it crashes on a change ship attempt and then it would crash every time I tried to go back into my saved game. Well, guess what, it corrupted my save by KSP not finishing writing the save file. So not all the data was in the save persistent file.

I fixed it by first taking out Kerbal Joint Reinforcement mod because that seems to be whats causing my engine ignitors to be wasted (this a workaround btw). Then I started a new career save and then exiting KSP and moving my quicksave file over to the new game along with crafts that I wanted to keep along with a few files for personal records for the Kerbals.

Once I got back into my new career save, I load from the quicksave that was moved. All is ok now (I think).

So just a heads up here, it's not always a mod problem. It might have been a mod that caused the start of your problems but you can't always blame a mod if KSP won't load a save. Start a new game and see if it works then.

Edited August 31, 2014 by NathanKell

[NathanKell]

Bothersome:

First, I took the liberty of de-duplicating your post. Hope that's OK.

Second, however, I have to disagree with a number of points. While you're right that KSP Win x64 is very crashy, and that most crashes (at any rate, crashes that can't be duplicated in 32bit) are KSP's fault, not the mods', you're wrong either that KJR is at fault for ignition issues (see above, HoneyFox found the actual culprit) or that the steps you mention are anything but the start of a lucky break. The reason x64 crashes is (or appears strongly to be) related to how it handles pointers when memory usage is larger than a 32bit address space, so in other words, instead of crashing *immediately* once >3.3GB or so is reached, it becomes a ticking time bomb.

Also, Derpotron is running 32bit. (JTG is x64, but also playing from a poor choice of locations.)

[JTG]

Turns out I fixed it by deleting my saves and installing RealFuels (Wasn't installed)

[HoneyFox]

Come to tell that I also made a workaround in EI with some other small bug-fixes. I've just published that as v3.4.

BTW I've pushed EVAPowerPack onto my repo, see if you are interested in and can make a branch from that.

BTW2: I found that my ETC still has its usefulness. In order to be compatible to RF's thrust curve feature, I changed ETC's default curve setting to { 0.0, 1.0 1.0, 1.0 } so that it won't change the final thrust. But ETC will consider the thrust limiter setting of the SRBs so it can still provide a way to adjust overall thrust, in case you cannot find an SRB with appropriate thrust.

Edited August 31, 2014 by HoneyFox

[Bothersome]

Bothersome:

First, I took the liberty of de-duplicating your post. Hope that's OK.

Sure, I wasn't aware I'd double posted. My net connection has been very flaky of late. Thanks.

Second, however, I have to disagree with a number of points. While you're right that KSP Win x64 is very crashy, and that most crashes (at any rate, crashes that can't be duplicated in 32bit) are KSP's fault, not the mods', you're wrong either that KJR is at fault for ignition issues (see above, HoneyFox found the actual culprit) or that the steps you mention are anything but the start of a lucky break. The reason x64 crashes is (or appears strongly to be) related to how it handles pointers when memory usage is larger than a 32bit address space, so in other words, instead of crashing *immediately* once >3.3GB or so is reached, it becomes a ticking time bomb.

You're right again about the cause of the problem for EI. I took out Kerbal Joint Reinforcement thinking that the delay in 10x to 1x time traversal was causing it, but it wasn't the culprit.

[RedAV8R]

Come to tell that I also made a workaround in EI with some other small bug-fixes. I've just published that as v3.4.

BTW I've pushed EVAPowerPack onto my repo, see if you are interested in and can make a branch from that.

BTW2: I found that my ETC still has its usefulness. In order to be compatible to RF's thrust curve feature, I changed ETC's default curve setting to { 0.0, 1.0 1.0, 1.0 } so that it won't change the final thrust. But ETC will consider the thrust limiter setting of the SRBs so it can still provide a way to adjust overall thrust, in case you cannot find an SRB with appropriate thrust.

Good to know about the ETC... FWIW, with KW and NP2 and the plethora of SRBs that those have, there isn't much of a gap anymore. I've got about 5 more solids to do with NP and I'll push a new RO release.

[chicknblender]

If you want actual Merlins, LazTek and KerbX have actual Merlins (that RO makes, err, actual actual Merlins).

Are you saying that these engines are already compatible with RO? Because the first post in this thread says that these are "coming soon" and "NOT guaranteed to work at all." I tested the LazTek mod out and the stats basically look right, but I don't want to install a mod that might break some other aspect of RO.

[RedAV8R]

Why yes. They should work, configs for them are already included with RO. They are just old versions that will be updated soon. Note that if something does break, make a note of it and pass it on to us so that we can be sure it's fixed later. Adding mods that aren't supported isn't going to break RO, or KSP (usually), BUT if those are present in your save, RO is updated to include those mods, then problems may occur. But that's why the warning exists first thing. New updates can and might be save breakers. Just the nature of things.

Notice the "(WIP)" at the end of a lot on that list, generally the top half. They already have configs in RO for them, they just are complete or otherwise lacking features that will be present when they do become "supported".

Edited August 31, 2014 by RedAV8R

[chicknblender]

Brilliant! The sheer scope of this mod is amazing; I have no idea how y'all keep up with it all. OK back to my Falcon Super-Duper Heavy.