Whats the deal with the new parts for .24?

[MKI]

So i have heard there will be new parts coming with the next update. So far the ones i have heard seem to be directed at Space Shuttle type systems. (Two different engine types are mentioned)

Along with the newer parts i have read the Dev's have someone working on parts already in the game. Either this is minor things such as updating the part costs, to updating desperately old and out dated parts (ahem Shuttle parts!)

I was wondering if anyone knows anything or wants to mention something about just the parts for the new update. I personally am excited about the Shuttle type OMS engines, as it directly points to the reusability factor this update will bring to the game.

[Alshain]

Well they hired bac9 a year ago based on his B9 pack. It's only logical to start seeing more spaceplane/shuttle parts.

[Deathsoul097]

Well they hired bac9 a year ago based on his B9 pack. It's only logical to start seeing more spaceplane/shuttle parts.

Bac left about 6 months ago, and he was pretty much there for the spacecentre redo. And AFAIK, that's about it.

[Alshain]

Ah, I didn't know he had left.

[LethalDose]

There was a note by the/an intern in the dev notes a few weeks or months ago that mentioned models for OMS engines (Controlled by throttle, uses monoprop) and Vernier engines (RCS engines that use LFO).

That's seriously the only thing I think we've heard about new parts going into 0.24.

[vexx32]

Aye, can't say I've really heard much about any new parts, myself. Still, it should hopefully prove to be an interesting update.

[AlamoVampire]

i for one would LOVE to see a bunch of new parts added, but, I will still make plenty of use of the OMS/Vernier stuff

[Tommygun]

I'm still waiting/hoping for stock fairings.

[Capt Snuggler]

I'm still waiting/hoping for stock fairings.

You and me both.

[Random Tank]

I'm still waiting/hoping for stock fairings.

We need a drag model redo before fairings would be any use to add; currently they would just add weight...

[Sky_walker]

We need a drag model redo before fairings would be any use to add; currently they would just add weight...

No, we don't. Look at the nose cones - it's exactly the same case.

We could also use a cargo bay - like the one on a space shuttle. But IMHO fairings should take priority over a cargo bay.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Sky_walker
grammar

[LethalDose]

We need a drag model redo before fairings would be any use to add; currently they would just add weight...

Well, we also have the radial engine body, that does nothing, and the nose cones as Sky_walker noted. Having the fairings in before the aero model gets updated (IF the aero model gets updated) wouldn't be the worst thing.

That would be wasting programmer time on adding multiplayer. Oooooh zing.

No, we don't. Look at the nose cones - it's exactly the same case.

We could also use a cargo bay - like the one on a space shuttle. But IMHO fairings should take priority over a cargo bay.

+1 on this. Stock Mk2 & Mk3 cargo bays would be great. Seems like it would go well with fairings at the same time.

BUT we should probably try to say on track, since this was a question about parts coming in 0.24, and we're almost definitely not getting stock cargo bays or fairings in 0.24.

[MR4Y]

My current bets are that 0.24 is just a bug fix. Those fancy new parts that we probably heard about? Either got rolled to another update or never existed.

[Starwaster]

We need a drag model redo before fairings would be any use to add; currently they would just add weight...

No, we don't. Look at the nose cones - it's exactly the same case.

We could also use a cargo bay - like the one on a space shuttle. But IMHO fairings should take priority over a cargo bay.

Sky_Walker, do you actually understand what he just said before contradicting him?

Fairings exist to reduce drag on a rocket.

They would be useless in KSP unless the existing drag model is changed because they would only add weight and not reduce drag. It's not currently possible, under the existing stock aerodynamics model for nosecones or fairings to reduce drag.

[cpast]

Sky_Walker, do you actually understand what he just said before contradicting him?

Fairings exist to reduce drag on a rocket.

They would be useless in KSP unless the existing drag model is changed because they would only add weight and not reduce drag. It's not currently possible, under the existing stock aerodynamics model for nosecones or fairings to reduce drag.

They can't reduce the force of drag, but they can reduce the acceleration caused by drag. On a rocket of mass 10 made up entirely of parts with drag coefficient 0.2, the drag is (constant)*2*v^2 [constant depends on the atmospheric density, but not on the ship itself or on the velocity]; this gives an acceleration due to drag of (constant)*.2*v^2. Adding a part with mass 1 and drag coefficient 0.1 will increase the force of drag by only (constant)*0.1*v^2, for a net drag of (constant)*2.1*v^2; the acceleration is then (constant)*.19*v^2, less than before.

Equivalently (and this is how the wiki defines the drag formula), ship drag is proportional to v^2, to ship mass, and to the net drag coefficient. To get acceleration, you wipe out the mass term, so the acceleration due to drag is proportional to v^2 and the net drag coefficient. The net drag coefficient is the weighted average of the drag coefficients of each part, with the weights being the masses of the parts. Adding a part with lower-than-average drag coefficient reduces the net drag coefficient, thus reducing acceleration due to drag in atmosphere. The trouble is that the drag of a part is factored in the same way no matter what the situation is; that means fairings do *not* reduce drag of the parts behind them, and only have a tiny impact on the drag of the ship. Also, under power, you care more about the actual force due to drag, which does go up whenever a part is added (when not under power, you only care about acceleration).

[pizzaoverhead]

That would be wasting programmer time on adding multiplayer. Oooooh zing.

To be fair, they've handled going about developing multiplayer in a competent way. "Ok, we've promised to do something that we don't have experience with, will take a long time, and won't have anything to show for it for at least a year. We'll hire someone who has worked on multiplayer code before and let them work on it in the background, while the rest of us continue what we were doing."

Adding new developers to speed up an existing project doesn't work, but starting work in a new area that can be isolated from the main project is the perfect point to create a new team that can work in parallel.

[MR4Y]

Adding new developers to speed up an existing project doesn't work, but starting work in a new area that can be isolated from the main project is the perfect point to create a new team that can work in parallel.

Image-Line does this for their FL Studio DAW and it works. They have extra developers to work on plugins, and those developers don't work in the main program, which means their development doesn't slow down the main software development.

[Red Iron Crown]

I'd imagine fairings would arrive in the same update as improved aero, seeing as one would need the other.

[Tiberion]

My current bets are that 0.24 is just a bug fix. Those fancy new parts that we probably heard about? Either got rolled to another update or never existed.

Well no, 0.24 is about the career mode being expanded to include contracts and related money issues.

As for the parts, they have never stated they were intended for 0.24 - it was a new intern starting to work on things. We should assume they are NOT coming in the patch until they specifically say so.

If they DO make it in, then You get a happy surprise.

If they do NOT make it in, then we avoid the inevitable "BUT YOU PROMISED ME THESE PARTS AND A SHINY NEW PONY" post the day the update comes out.

Because so far, they have not promised you anything.

[robot256]

Fairings exist to reduce drag on a rocket.

They would be useless in KSP unless the existing drag model is changed because they would only add weight and not reduce drag. It's not currently possible, under the existing stock aerodynamics model for nosecones or fairings to reduce drag.

The only thing more pointless than having fairings that don't reduce drag would be to change the drag model and not have any fairings to take advantage of it. My bet is also that the fairings will be added before the drag model changes, so players have a chance to get used to them before they become a necessity.

[Frank_G]

That would totally make sense, robot256. I have heard some rumors on a YouTube Video that the drag model is actually getting an overhaul.

There was talk, that the parts in front will take the drag off the parts behind them which sounds more realistic to me than what we have now.

So stock fairings should be around in one of the next updates i bet.

[geb]

There are a lot of us, myself included, who would love stock fairings just for the aesthetic aspect. I don't care much if they add mass without a performance benefit. Looking like a proper rocket is worth it.

[Frank_G]

There are a lot of us, myself included, who would love stock fairings just for the aesthetic aspect. I don't care much if they add mass without a performance benefit. Looking like a proper rocket is worth it.

That is why i use procedural fairings without ferram aerospace mod installed... i just want my rockets to look like rockets and i like it, when they jettison and present the payload. Its just what belongs into the scenery.

[Sky_walker]

Sky_Walker, do you actually understand what he just said before contradicting him?

Fairings exist to reduce drag on a rocket.

They would be useless in KSP unless the existing drag model is changed because they would only add weight and not reduce drag. It's not currently possible, under the existing stock aerodynamics model for nosecones or fairings to reduce drag.

Read my post again: Nose cones exist in the game right now and they have exactly the same problems fairings do, so there is absolutely no reason to wait for a new aerodynamics model in order to implement fairings just like there was none when they implemented nose cones.

[Vicidsmart]

Glad they hired Bac9