.24 Preview Vids are on Youtube

[NoPanShabuShabu]

It isn't clear if he was actually recovering the debris... not everybody is aware that you can show and recover debris from the Tracking Station...

Since you can recover science from debris (ex. goo pods that fell off), it would be very weird if you couldn't recover value as well... especially considering "Debris" is actually just a ship that's automatically garbage collected after the limit is hit.

Of course, KSP is full of weird, so you never know...

I was thinking the same thing, but he says in the comments that he tried recovering debris from the tracking station and got no funds back. This is counter-intuitive since you do currently get the science stored in debris like goo containers.

[cpast]

I don't want to recreate craft, I want to use ideas. And the only currently viable idea for reusable launch system in KSP is SSTO.

What we need here is a special mod, but that's for another thread.

Specifically, this thread (it's a mod that lets you control dropped stages).

[AngusJimiKeith]

edit: BTW if anyone else noticed, but after 3 days of no changes, there have been about a dozen updates to the game on the steamdb this afternoon. Hopefully they didn't find some new major bug at the last minute again that they're trying to squash T_T

They likely wouldn't have been uploading new builds over the weekend. Also, we'd probably see them change branches from experimentals back to scratchpad if they found some major bug. Looks more like they're gearing up for a release in the next few days!

[NecroBones]

Listen to the commentary instead of reading the descriptions In every video I've seen (except Danny's but he's an exception) they say that the mission texts are procedurally generated. It's hard to do that right. And frankly I'd rather they be like they are now than wait a week or to for them to fix it.

I look forward to reading these. I'm wondering what method of procedural generation they went with.

I'm hoping it's Markov Chains, because you can get some (somewhat) grammatically correct output, that also happens to be hilariously nonsensical. For instance, Markov Twain, or Markov Shakespeare.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

I was thinking the same thing, but he says in the comments that he tried recovering debris from the tracking station and got no funds back. This is counter-intuitive since you do currently get the science stored in debris like goo containers.

Here is my question, and I don't remember the answer b/c I rarely have to collect science from "debris" b/c I usually bring it all into my capsule:

If you recover debris with science, does it give you the dialogue or does it just give you science w/o telling you, like when you transmit it? If that's the case, it may in fact refund you money w/o actually notifying you that you got money back. If that is what is happening, perhaps someone who wasn't closely watching their money before and after recovering wouldn't notice that they got money back from recovering the debris.

[Renegrade]

I was thinking the same thing, but he says in the comments that he tried recovering debris from the tracking station and got no funds back. This is counter-intuitive since you do currently get the science stored in debris like goo containers.

Ugh. I see he responded to my request for clarification - it does sound like debris is completely worthless, which is bizarre and senseless.

Oh hey, I wonder if you rename it in the Tracking Center to something other than debris...is it worth 'Funds' then?

(If you left click on the name of a vessel in the little pop-up info panel, it presents you with the rename option, even for debris, and you can rename anything from there even if it has no pod...and change it's classification)

I wish they would add some kind of "autopilot" module which really just allows a vessel to be fully loaded during the whole time if it has the part attached. Not an actual Autopilot, but it sort of fills the purpose.

A simpler solution might be to simply auto-recover any debris, with an armed parachute attached, that falls out of the active area on a sub-orbital path towards a body with an atmosphere... wasn't that the plan back in the day?

If you recover debris with science, does it give you the dialogue or does it just give you science w/o telling you, like when you transmit it? If that's the case, it may in fact refund you money w/o actually notifying you that you got money back. If that is what is happening, perhaps someone who wasn't closely watching their money before and after recovering wouldn't notice that they got money back from recovering the debris.

If the debris has science in it in 0.23.5, it will bring up the classic science/recovery report.

However, it's still possible that you silently get the funds back -- there's no guarantee that the new system is a complete drop-in for the old one etc. We'll have to test once we have our hands on it. :C

Edited July 15, 2014 by Renegrade

[NoPanShabuShabu]

Am I really the only one that finds the briefing text comprehensible? From 4KbShort's video, for "Rescue Patwise Kerman Kerbin.":

"A few days prior to unintentionally performing high-demand stress-testing, a restless team trying something truly awesome at Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spacecraft Parts Co wondered if some Kerbals seem to enjoy high speeds, while others apparently just don't. Now, that actually ended up raising more questions than answers, and if you're willing, this is where you come in."

1. What could be more "truly awesome" than accidently putting a team member or test subject into orbit while speed enjoyment testing?

2. More questions have been raised: "Did Patwise Kerman enjoy high speeds or not?" "Does he still enjoy high speeds?" "Does he now have a greater enjoyment of high speeds?"

This is SCIENCE!

Edited July 15, 2014 by NoPanShabuShabu
Fixing the boldness

[MKI]

A simpler solution might be to simply auto-recover any debris, with an armed parachute attached, that falls out of the active area on a sub-orbital path towards a body with an atmosphere... wasn't that the plan back in the day?

I don't think that plan would make balanced game play, otherwise you could simply exploit it by attaching parachutes to every stage, thus breaking the whole funds idea.

You also can't calculate how many parachutes you need etc. Because such an addition would take up a lot of computing power per dropped stage. As each one needs to be calculated in real time along with your core craft. This just can't be done without a change to how debris is calculated in atmospheres.

[Master Tao]

Am I really the only one that finds the briefing text comprehensible? From 4KbShort's video, for "Rescue Patwise Kerman Kerbin.":

"A few days prior to unintentionally performing high-demand stress-testing, a restless team trying something truly awesome at Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spacecraft Parts Co wondered if some Kerbals seem to enjoy high speeds, while others apparently just don't. Now, that actually ended up raising more questions than answers, and if you're willing, this is where you come in."

1. What could be more "truly awesome" than accidently putting a team member or test subject into orbit while speed enjoyment testing?

2. More questions have been raised: "Did Patwise Kerman enjoy high speeds or not?" "Does he still enjoy high speeds?" "Does he now have a greater enjoyment of high speeds?"

This is SCIENCE!

If that's really procedurally generated briefing text, I'm seriously stunned as someone who's studied A.I. & linguistics and made a few attempts at procedurally generated text. To cram something that well done into a game is an accomplishment in itself.

[TrooperCooper]

I don't think that plan would make balanced game play, otherwise you could simply exploit it by attaching parachutes to every stage, thus breaking the whole funds idea.

You also can't calculate how many parachutes you need etc. Because such an addition would take up a lot of computing power per dropped stage. As each one needs to be calculated in real time along with your core craft. This just can't be done without a change to how debris is calculated in atmospheres.

It would just have to run a check pretty much like http://ksp.freeiz.com/ cant be that hard imo.

[Superfluous J]

I don't think that plan would make balanced game play, otherwise you could simply exploit it by attaching parachutes to every stage, thus breaking the whole funds idea.

I am mildly amused that the exact thing I want to be able to do by investing in the parachutes for each stage is what you think of as an exploit.

[biohazard15]

I don't think that plan would make balanced game play, otherwise you could simply exploit it by attaching parachutes to every stage, thus breaking the whole funds idea.

You also can't calculate how many parachutes you need etc. Because such an addition would take up a lot of computing power per dropped stage. As each one needs to be calculated in real time along with your core craft. This just can't be done without a change to how debris is calculated in atmospheres.

I've outlined the basic principle of such plugin: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86043-On-rails-Recovery-System

Only weight, chutes\engines and controlability is taken into account. Atmospheric density should be considered at sea level for purposes of such plugin, so in theory drag may also be taken into account. So you'll need only to run a quick check - can this land safely or not. That won't put strain to any CPU (except some antiquities).

[Whirligig Girl]

Well now it's tomorrow, WHERE'S THE UPDATE!

[magnemoe]

That is true. And actually now that I remember, I think one of the devs or testers said one should be able to recover resources from "debris," which would seem to contradict what he said. (he also said there weren't any new parts, which we know there are).

We didn't actually see him try (and fail) to get money back from debris in the video so we kinda have to take his work on that, but yeah yo make a good point too

Yes you have to change to show debries, then select each part an recover.

In the current game you get science from debris like goo containers who fell off during landing.

Now for accent you will loose your parts that is unless they hit the ground over 2.4 kilometer from your active vessel. Seperatron packages to get spaceplanes up to speed might be the only thing who can be recovered

[Renegrade]

I don't think that plan would make balanced game play, otherwise you could simply exploit it by attaching parachutes to every stage, thus breaking the whole funds idea.

Uh, we're talking about KSP. The Balanced Gameplay ship sailed a long time ago (you get free "Funds" for doing absolutely nothing over time for instance. 1. Timewarp. 2. ??? 3. Profit!).

Also, according to the videos, the cost of recovery varies based on how far you are from KSC, and is heavily weighed down by an extreme and fake fuel cost. Even if you recover every stage, most of it will be below the 98% maximum return value unless your rocket never leaves the vicinity of KSC, and it will also have 0% of the 30%-or-so fuel cost returned. Also you can "exploit" the return mechanism with any sort of SSTO rocket or space plane.

I think a better solution would be to slap a refurbishment cost of 30-40% to anything returned. That would also let us get rid of the obnoxious fuel costs, and make launches always have SOME cost.

You also can't calculate how many parachutes you need etc. Because such an addition would take up a lot of computing power per dropped stage. As each one needs to be calculated in real time along with your core craft. This just can't be done without a change to how debris is calculated in atmospheres.

Speaking as a professional programmer, I call shenanigans on the 'take up a lot of computing power per dropped stage'. Fortunately biohazard15 has already addressed that issue nicely, and I'll just say that I concur with his conclusion.

Note that a number of real world rocket designs involve re-usable boosters (Space Shuttle SRB, SpaceX Falcon9/Heavy). While KSP most definitely does not slavishly devote itself to every little obnoxious nuance of reality (thank goodness), it tries to represent the important parts in abstract.

[cpast]

Note that a number of real world rocket designs involve re-usable boosters (Space Shuttle SRB, SpaceX Falcon9/Heavy). While KSP most definitely does not slavishly devote itself to every little obnoxious nuance of reality (thank goodness), it tries to represent the important parts in abstract.

Those are in fact the only two. Ever. In history. And one has only done it once or twice thus far, in test flights. You may want to reconsider how important it is to real spaceflight.

[Superfluous J]

Those are in fact the only two. Ever. In history. And one has only done it once or twice thus far, in test flights. You may want to reconsider how important it is to real spaceflight.

That's also 2 more than the number of manned flights we've done to Mars, yet people send Kerbals to Duna all the time. I don't think it matters if it works or not in the real world. The game punishes you for not recovering stuff, and then handicaps your ability to recover stuff. That doesn't seem fair.

[SciMan]

The Ariane 5 also has the capability to recover it's SRBs, but they don't re-use them. They probably could re use them if they wanted to, but it doesn't make economical sense to do so, so they don't.

-edit-

They actually don't even recover the SRBs most of the time because they only do it to study the spent SRB casings, not to save money.

Edited July 15, 2014 by SciMan

[ZodiaK]

is it me or do those new parts look very ugly?

[magnemoe]

is it me or do those new parts look very ugly?

Who parts? has not seen new parts but know we get monoprop engines and trusters using normal fuel both are useful for very small and very large ships.

[Renegrade]

is it me or do those new parts look very ugly?

The pipe-looking one (which I believe is the RCS-powered 'engine', but don't quote me on that) looked kinda bleh. I thought the other one (presumably the LF/O one) looked okay though..

Those are in fact the only two. Ever. In history. And one has only done it once or twice thus far, in test flights. You may want to reconsider how important it is to real spaceflight.

5thHorseman covered that fairly well. Plus there's a bunch of other things we have that are relatively unused at this time ex. RAPIER engine, any manned missions past LEO, etcetc, and until the Space Shuttle's retirement, it was 50% of the manned transport to LEO (possibly a bit more or less, depending on how many R7 missiles Soyuz rockets the Russians launched). That and there's only ever been ONE successful lunar space program in all of history (with one rocket, one CSM, one LEM), so two isn't a bad number where spaceflight is concerned.

[RayneCloud]

I've been waiting for this, for a long time. Glad to see Felipe and the boys got this moving forward. It's been far to long since I played KSP, and this will bring renewed desire. -DR

[EvilotionCR2]

I've been waiting for this, for a long time. Glad to see Felipe and the boys got this moving forward. It's been far to long since I played KSP, and this will bring renewed desire. -DR

geezus krist, Damion Rayne? I remember good ol' days when you were an community manager. And also you're apparently in the Angry Army now. A blast from the past heh. For everybody who doesn't know, he resigned as an community manager ages ago.

[kookoo_gr]

Question. Will there be contracts that have a goal with an asteroid?

[RayneCloud]

geezus krist, Damion Rayne? I remember good ol' days when you were an community manager. And also you're apparently in the Angry Army now. A blast from the past heh. For everybody who doesn't know, he resigned as an community manager ages ago.

I remember the good 'ol days myself, but I hear Miguel and the current chap are doing great jobs...so.