[1.1.3] Surface Experiment Pack - EVA science for KIS/KAS (v1.4.2 6/30/2016) *Now with less explosions*

[Enceos]

I just downloaded the KIS 1.1 update. Hopefully, an KIS-standalone version of MSEP should be done by Saturday.

KospY says he made an option to use equipped parts, for example conduct experiments with science parts. His post here.

[AlbertKermin]

Thanks! I had missed that post.

With KSP 1.0 and KIS 1.1 being released, I have the opportunity to make some big changes to MSEP, and I 'd like to get everyone's thoughts on the following ideas:

1. Converting MSEP to a KIS-only mod.
   
2. Adding a Pilot-only-usable camera experiment. Tiny amount of science, but very early in the tech tree.
   
3. Splitting some of the experiments up between Scientists and Engineers - Scientists would get the Solar Wind Spectrometer and Ion Detector, Engineers would get the Retro-reflector and Heat Probe.
   
4. Spreading the parts out around the tech tree, instead of clustered together in one node.
   
5. Not sure on some of these ideas, as they could break career-mode saves.
   

What does everyone else think?

[JeffreyCor]

1) I am very much in favor of this!

2) This sounds very interesting. Though being pilot only may be unnecessarily restrictive as an engineer or scientist could also handle point and click camera use. Maybe just low science early on without the restriction.

3) An experiment doesn't seem to be something that only an engineer should be able to do, as the very nature of an experiment is scientific. This I would vote in opposition to.

4) This sounds like a very good idea! This will also increase the purpose of making return visits as new experiments are "discovered" rather than getting them all to do in one shot. Strong in favor for this.

[Enceos]

Lovely!

1) yes

2,3) restrictions would add unnecessary hassle imo

4) yes

+) I would make one or two experiments not rerunnable to add some work for scientists (they're got an ability to clean experiments in 1.0).

[Z3R0_0NL1N3]

1. Yes, definitely!

2. I think it should just be for any Kerbal. Early on, it's hard when anything is class-based.

3. It does seem a little bit of a hassle. Honestly I think these should be further in the tech tree, and only for scientists.

4. Yes, spread them around, as per the other changes.

[Apollo13]

1 Definitely YES!!!

2. Not really interested in that.

3. This would be a major hassle. Due to KIS requirement for Engineers to perform functions, my landing parties now require two kerbals: pilot and engineer. Splitting the functions between engineers and scientists would force the inclusion of a third kerbal. Finally, not realistic, given that astronauts are thoroughly trained on all equipment so as to limit the number that are needed per mission.

4. Spreading them out would be nice.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Apollo13

[Lucius]

3. This would be a major hassle. Due to KIS requirement for Engineers to perform functions, my landing parties now require two kerbals: pilot and engineer. Splitting the functions between engineers and scientists would force the inclusion of a third kerbal. Finally, not realistic, given that astronauts are thoroughly trained on all equipment so as to limit the number that are needed per mission.

You know, actually, I am behind this new concept for exactly this reason. Having to do multiple mun landings to get everything you need done, or even landing a scientist and an engineer and having to deal with the landing harry yourself would be a nice fresh shot in the arm.

[Jiraiyah]

any news about 1.0 or 1.0.2 ? patiently waiting for an update here lol

[biohazard15]

Thanks! I had missed that post.

With KSP 1.0 and KIS 1.1 being released, I have the opportunity to make some big changes to MSEP, and I 'd like to get everyone's thoughts on the following ideas:

1. Converting MSEP to a KIS-only mod.
   
2. Adding a Pilot-only-usable camera experiment. Tiny amount of science, but very early in the tech tree.
   
3. Splitting some of the experiments up between Scientists and Engineers - Scientists would get the Solar Wind Spectrometer and Ion Detector, Engineers would get the Retro-reflector and Heat Probe.
   
4. Spreading the parts out around the tech tree, instead of clustered together in one node.
   
5. Not sure on some of these ideas, as they could break career-mode saves.
   

What does everyone else think?

1) Definitely yes. KIS is much more convenient than KAS, and you do not need any containers.

2) Interesting idea, but would be quickly forgotten in favor of other experiments.

3) Great idea - you might need to fly twice to the same location to get all the science (if you use 2-man capsules)

4) Again, a great idea - just be sure that they would come in the same time player is able to do a Mun mission.

5) If you meant pre-1.0 saves - who cares about them? WRT 1.0+ careers - I don't think that they would be broken by this.

[kiwiak]

Good to hear back from you!

Its one of my favourite science mods.

[Apollo13]

You know, actually, I am behind this new concept for exactly this reason. Having to do multiple mun landings to get everything you need done, or even landing a scientist and an engineer and having to deal with the landing harry yourself would be a nice fresh shot in the arm.

3) Great idea - you might need to fly twice to the same location to get all the science (if you use 2-man capsules)

However, if this is not implemented, as it should not be, then YOU can still do it YOUR way. That is, if you want to make multiple trips to get all the science, then YOU can do so. Why inflict YOUR gameplay preferences other players? I support giving players freedom to play the game as they choose.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Apollo13

[Spacepetscompany]

That's like saying that career mode shouldn't exist because it's forcing people to use it. If you're so concerned about the issue just write a config file for Module Manager. Some people just prefer to be forced into doing something rather than pretend they have to.

[Enceos]

However, if this is not implemented, as it should not be, then YOU can still do it YOUR way. That is, if you want to make multiple trips to get all the science, then YOU can do so. Why inflict YOUR gameplay preferences other players? I support giving players freedom to play the game as they choose.

You're an evil guy, Apollo13. It's just a poll, people vote. You know how to write configs and can tweak everything to suit your taste, no need to attack other people's opinions. I will also revert the role restrictions for myself if they get implemented.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Enceos

[Apollo13]

In the KIS thread, you mentioned

I've been trying to update my Munar Surface Experiment pack for the latest version of KIS, and I've been having rather a lot of trouble.

Namely, when I equip a science part, run the science experiment, and place it on the ground to remove the science, I cannot (though the "Run Science Experiment" button still shows up, for some reason). As of right now, the only working procedure for recovering the science seems to be to run the experiment, then save it and review the report, then return to the capsule and it will, somehow, mysteriously appear in the stored science, in spite of it not showing up in the Kerb's science reports while EVA.

Do you have a version that the community can test? Perhaps with a bunch of us hitting it, we might find the common denominator to help you isolate the issue.

[Enceos]

@AlbertKermin, could you please release a dev. version so we can help you with feedback? We pretty much already figured out how the KIS modules work.

[AlbertKermin]

Here is the version I've been developing currently.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9cwnxjeq6zygxi/MSEP%20v3.1.zip?dl=0

Also, I finally got my Dropbox working!

[Apollo13]

Thanks. Testing as I type this.

EDIT: I can't run the experiments on the just off the Launchpad by the flag. I Drop the instrument on the ground and right-click. It says "Collect Data" or "Begin Collecting Data".

Had an exploding part, the Interior Heat Probe. I had dropped it on the ground. It had been there quite a while. When I right-clicked...BOOM!!!

KospY had a similar problem with exploding parts in space when attached. They exploded the ship after about 15-20 seconds. Here's his resolution. Perhaps this might point you in the right direction for this mod. For more details, contact him.

https://github.com/KospY/KIS/issues/48

Edited May 15, 2015 by Apollo13

[Enceos]

@AlbertKermin I looked at your KIS configs, and found some mistakes. After correcting them all and retesting in game I'll give them to you. I think about 12 hours from now.

What Apollo13 describes is a simple collider issue, KospY was dealing with another problem. I wouldn't bother redoing the colliders.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Enceos

[Enceos]

@AlbertKermin In the configs I gave you, I made all parts attachable on static in the ModuleKISItem but I didn't add this module:

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKISPartStatic
        breakForce = 30
    }

Without it they can't be attached to the ground. Only dropped.

[Apollo13]

Do you really want the parts to display in the VAB KIS category of items? I think not. You probably just want them to display in the Science category. In each part.cfg, change:

editorItemsCategory = true

to

editorItemsCategory = false

Edited May 19, 2015 by Apollo13

[Rhedd]

Still really looking forward to this. How's it going?

[Rhedd]

Quiet... Too quiet...

[AlbertKermin]

Quiet... Too quiet...

Yep!

I've been a little distracted with building myself a new computer (AMD A-10, 1-terabyte hard drive, 120-gig SSD) , but I have been getting some work done on this mod, and I hopefully will be uploading the 1.0.2 version within the week.

Edited June 10, 2015 by AlbertKermin

[AlbertKermin]

Well, after much drama (which had nothing to do with this mod, but stole my time), goofing off, headaches (which prompted me to go goof off), and more than one exclamation of "Why am I even trying to make this mod? I don't know enough!", I have a working, non-exploding version of MSEP which I am satisfied with enough to release.

Also, I discovered that it severely limits explosions if one un-equips the experiment before placing it on the ground. I think this is a strange sort of KIS bug.

[Dunrana]

I shouldn’t spoil the surprise, but I (the quality control department of albertkerman industries) just played with a new version. It looks pretty promising.

Now off to test its compatibility with the Outer Planets mod.