[1.4] StageRecovery - Recover Funds+ from Dropped Stages - v1.8.0 (March 11, 2018)

[Hellbrand]

hey what about powerd craft like the airbus project where the engine flies back to a nearby airstrip?

[magico13]

hey what about powerd craft like the airbus project where the engine flies back to a nearby airstrip?

That falls under the "Powered Recovery" rules laid out in the OP. You might want FMRS if you want it to physically land at a site. StageRecovery just checks if it can land on propulsion alone (wings are not accounted for) but doesn't actually alter the trajectory the vessel is on, so it won't have reduced distances like you'd otherwise expect, but it should still recover properly.

[Cairan]

I've been scratching my head ... seems that my recovered distance is always 942.48 km unless I am smack on KSC... I'm pretty sure this might be a KSP bug rather than a Stage Recovery one, but given the experience of people on this thread using this mod, I wondered if anyone else had such an issue. If not, I have no idea which mod might otherwise be interfering with the range calculation.

Edit: Seems like Kopernicus was the culprit ... If anyone else runs aground on this issue, check that you have the latest version of Kopernicus / OuterPlanets, a wrond distance from KSC is -not- a result of any issue with Stage Recovery

Edited June 19, 2015 by Cairan

[mark7]

This is a great mod,works fine in 0.90

but ,when I download the latest vision and install it in 1.0.2,it didnt work!

I dont know whats going on, I separate the boosters and push the rocket into orbit,when it's done,the boosters are gone,like crush into the ground.I have installed Real Chute,the Chutes are armed when I separate the boosters. Even worse,I dont even have a report about if the boosters are crushed or recorvered. This is so weired !Do u know whats going on?

here is the image

And this is what happened after I watch the debris cruched into the Earth, and shouldnt it appear when I was in VAB?

Edited June 22, 2015 by mark7

[Hellbrand]

Whats FMRS?

[magico13]

Whats FMRS?

FMRS is a mod that does some kinda cool save file trickery to let you fly multiple things at once. If you check out the video on the first post by Scott Manley, it covers StageRecovery and FMRS.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80292-1-0-2-Flight-Manager-for-Reusable-Stages-%28FMRS-v1-0-00%29

This is a great mod,works fine in 0.90

but ,when I download the latest vision and install it in 1.0.2,it didnt work!

Unfortunately I don't think I can see those pictures. They appear broken to me. As for the problem, it could be that the changes to physics range in 1.0 (now 22.5km instead of 2.5km) means that your boosters are actually hitting the ground instead of being deleted (StageRecovery can't handle those) but if your chutes are armed then that shouldn't be a problem. It could also be an installation error. If you're not seeing the icon in the toolbar in the Space Center or VAB then that sounds like a bug (but make sure it's not just hidden in the Blizzy Toolbar Mod, since it only appears in one or the other). If none of those sounds right, then could you send me a log file and I'll see if it's even being enabled.

[mark7]

Well，I think the physics ranger shouldnt be a problem ，caz I am using RSS XD

and also…………Where can I find that log file？

[magico13]

Well，I think the physics ranger shouldnt be a problem ，caz I am using RSS XD

and also…………Where can I find that log file？

Hmm. It could be Kopernicus/RSS related as I've seen a few issues with Kopernicus in virtually all my mods. As for the log file, the post I linked contains the info, but I'll also quote it here to make it easier to find.

Windows: KSP_win\KSP_Data\output_log.txt (32bit) or KSP_win64\KSP_x64_Data\output_log.txt (64bit)

Mac OS X: Open Console, on the left side of the window there is a menu that says 'files'. Scroll down the list and find the Unity drop down, under Unity there will be Player.log ( Files>~/Library/Logs>Unity>Player.log )

Linux: ~/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal\ Space\ Program/Player.log

[linuxgurugamer]

It would be nice if, in the event that a stage is destroyed, that the windows says why it was destroyed. I'm trying to figure out if I need more parachutes, a heat shield or something else.

[magico13]

It would be nice if, in the event that a stage is destroyed, that the windows says why it was destroyed. I'm trying to figure out if I need more parachutes, a heat shield or something else.

If it burned up, it will say it was burned up. If you need more parachutes, you'll know because the terminal velocity is > the Max Cutoff Velocity (both of which are listed in the message). There's even more info in the Flight GUI rather than the smaller popup messages.

Where it might not mention anything is if you're trying to do powered recovery of a probe that doesn't have SAS or a ship without a pilot. For that it will just say the terminal velocity is too high.

[linuxgurugamer]

If it burned up, it will say it was burned up. If you need more parachutes, you'll know because the terminal velocity is > the Max Cutoff Velocity (both of which are listed in the message). There's even more info in the Flight GUI rather than the smaller popup messages.

Where it might not mention anything is if you're trying to do powered recovery of a probe that doesn't have SAS or a ship without a pilot. For that it will just say the terminal velocity is too high.

Does this work well with the RealChutes mod?

Edit for clarification: When it does the calculations, does it take into account the deployment altitude, when using RealChutes, FAR and stock? Or is the altitude ignored?

Thanks

Edited June 24, 2015 by linuxgurugamer

[linuxgurugamer]

If it burned up, it will say it was burned up. If you need more parachutes, you'll know because the terminal velocity is > the Max Cutoff Velocity (both of which are listed in the message). There's even more info in the Flight GUI rather than the smaller popup messages.

Where it might not mention anything is if you're trying to do powered recovery of a probe that doesn't have SAS or a ship without a pilot. For that it will just say the terminal velocity is too high.

Silly me. I didn't read the Info pane of the GUI.

LGG

[mariohm1311]

I think that it would be a good idea to implementent a random failure possibility depending on how big your rocket is, or how close you are to a TWR of 1 (in the event of an engine failure).

[magico13]

Does this work well with the RealChutes mod?

Edit for clarification: When it does the calculations, does it take into account the deployment altitude, when using RealChutes, FAR and stock? Or is the altitude ignored?

Altitude is ignored. In fact, there's not even an approximation for calculating a landing site, it just uses the latitude and longitude where the vessel is deleted at. I've wanted to try to include support for the Trajectories mod to give somewhat accurate landing site predictions, but I haven't thought of a good way of that working (the big issue is that there's a large amount of time where the stage doesn't experience atmospheric drag because it's unloaded and above 23km, so if you do the calculation when it's deleted then that's pretty inaccurate. The best time would be when it gets unloaded, but I need to see if I could even have Trajectories run a calculation on it then)

FAR and RealChutes will actually have better Vt predictions than Stock does. For those, it uses the same formula that RealChutes does to calculate the parachute size you need, but in reverse to solve for the velocity. For Stock it uses a formula fit to some data points for various parachute sizes/mass vs. terminal velocity that I went through and tested in 1.0.2. I probably need to make changes to it for 1.0.4.

Silly me. I didn't read the Info pane of the GUI.

If you do notice that a piece of information is missing, let me know and I'll mark it down to get included in future updates.

I think that it would be a good idea to implementent a random failure possibility depending on how big your rocket is, or how close you are to a TWR of 1 (in the event of an engine failure).

I'm not personally a big fan of random failures since there's not much you can do to prevent them from happening. There's a possibility I could add support for a random failure mod like Test Flight or DangIt if they include failures for chute opening or engine firing, so that there's a possibility of a random failure happening based on those mod mechanics (I know I could do this with Test Flight as I've worked with the API for it a bit).

[BlackHat]

(the big issue is that there's a large amount of time where the stage doesn't experience atmospheric drag because it's unloaded and above 23km,

Hmm I have had a few stages that stayed in suborbital orbits and never landed. (I had to switch to them and follow them down to a landing)

However they DID have high PEs. (50K+ if I recall correctly)

So do I need to get the PEs below 23Km to cause Stage Recovery to "Recover" them?

[futrtrubl]

So do I need to get the PEs below 23Km to cause Stage Recovery to "Recover" them?

Indeed. More fully SR only recovers things when they are deleted by KSP. If they aren't deleted they aren't recovered.

[Pappystein]

If it burned up, it will say it was burned up. If you need more parachutes, you'll know because the terminal velocity is > the Max Cutoff Velocity (both of which are listed in the message). There's even more info in the Flight GUI rather than the smaller popup messages.

Where it might not mention anything is if you're trying to do powered recovery of a probe that doesn't have SAS or a ship without a pilot. For that it will just say the terminal velocity is too high.

Err, How would I be getting the stage Destroyed message when the final Sink rate is less than 2m/s per the Gui feedback page? Is the Drag from Airbrakes, not applied like Parachutes? I use Airbrakes to slow the stages down to safe Parachute temperatures and velocities. I have a 2.5m Stage that has enough air brakes on it that it's terminal velocity is 16m/s The Chutes slow it to below 2 m/s yet with Staged Recovery, once I am out of range of the stage it shows as destroyed. This is in 1.0.2, not 1.0.4 (I have not tested in 1.0.4 yet)

Edited June 26, 2015 by Pappystein

[magico13]

Air brakes are not actually included in the calculation currently. I'm not even sure I'll be able to figure out a formula to use to include them, but I'll add it to my to-do list anyway. SR looks only at parachutes and engines. If the message doesn't say you're below a safe speed, then you need more parachutes. If it says you're below a safe speed but it also says that it's burned up, that's because it was going too fast when ksp deleted the craft.

You can use the tool in the editor to see what the calculated terminal velocity will be.

[Haguruma]

hows the .04 update coming?

[magico13]

hows the .04 update coming?

It should work fine with 1.0.4, but I haven't really had a chance to check. I'll take a look at it either tonight or tomorrow (maybe add support for air brakes as well if I can), but it should still be working about as well as in 1.0.2

[JeffreyCor]

I haven't seen any problems under 1.0.4 so if there are any they are small

[Pappystein]

Air brakes are not actually included in the calculation currently. I'm not even sure I'll be able to figure out a formula to use to include them, but I'll add it to my to-do list anyway. SR looks only at parachutes and engines. If the message doesn't say you're below a safe speed, then you need more parachutes. If it says you're below a safe speed but it also says that it's burned up, that's because it was going too fast when ksp deleted the craft.

You can use the tool in the editor to see what the calculated terminal velocity will be.

So to be clear, it is the DELETED T/V that Staged recovery uses (before applying Parachutes and any left over engine D/V?) Then Staged recovery calculates the T/V at Parachute deployment, figures final Velocity and checks against the set safe landing velocity value?

Thanks for your answer, just trying to get a handle on how SR works in light of my troubles.

[brygun]

Starting to see parachutes destroyed on the separation from the craft above mach 1. Compensating by not opening the chutes though that was recommended for stage recovery to work.

Also seeing some chutes lost to heat during SSTO high speed sections. Not a direct issue but no chutes makes drop tanks become bombs.

[magico13]

So to be clear, it is the DELETED T/V that Staged recovery uses (before applying Parachutes and any left over engine D/V?) Then Staged recovery calculates the T/V at Parachute deployment, figures final Velocity and checks against the set safe landing velocity value?

Thanks for your answer, just trying to get a handle on how SR works in light of my troubles.

I'll try to make things as clear as possible to prevent any further confusion.

1) KSP deletes the craft due to it being in atmosphere and unloaded. This occurs if the stage is 22.5km away from the active vessel and is at an altitude below ~23km. If altitude > 23km but distance >22.5km, the stage is unloaded and NO physics is applied to it, other than acceleration from gravity (but no atmospheric drag). This is when SR starts its calculations.

2) If the current surface velocity of the stage is > 2000 m/s AND the save game has reentry heating enabled, SR does a check to see if the stage is burned up. The process is outlined in the OP. It is possible that this is an "unrealistic" speed, since atmospheric drag may not have been applied to the stage like it should have been and so the stage is going faster than expected (due to being >22.5km away but above 23km altitude for part of the trajectory).

3) SR calculates the terminal velocity based on parachutes and vessel mass. For RealChutes it uses the exact formula. For Stock it uses an approximate formula that can be off by up to 2 m/s in testing (in either direction), since I don't know how to calculate it exactly anymore and I needed something quick for 1.0.2 (the old method worked in 1.0)

4) If the calculated terminal velocity is >6 m/s (the Low Cutoff setting) then it attempts powered landing. First it checks for a pilot or probe with SAS capability. If that's found, it calculates the total thrust to weight ratio based on active engines and the amount of delta V the ship can provide. It then consumes either enough fuel to drop the terminal velocity to 4m/s (at a rate of 1.5 times that of normal, to represent inefficiencies in piloting. AKA, it requires 1.5 times the terminal velocity in delta v, which is about 300 dV without chutes and can be as low as 50 dV or less with some chutes) or it consumes ALL of the fuel and calculates the new terminal velocity.

5) After determining the final velocity it sets the Speed Percentage based on where the velocity lies in relation to the Low/High Cutoffs. If V>High Cutoff, then 0%. If V<Low Cutoff, then 100%. If Low<V<High then it calculates it based on a quadratic.

6) The latitude and longitude at deletion is used to calculate the Great Circle Distance from the KSC, giving the Distance Percentage between 98% at KSC and 10% on the other side of Kerbin linearly (depending on Tracking Station level actually. At Level 1 it's 10% at 1/4 of the way around Kerbin, at Level 2 it's 10% at 3/8 of the way, and at level 3 it's 10% at 1/2 way around).

7) The Speed and Distance Percentages are multiplied to give the final percentage. The total part values are calculated and funds equal to Total Part Value * Final Percentage are awarded. Kerbals are "recovered" (set back to Available and un-killed in their flight log). Science is recovered at 100% rate. And the success message is created, along with firing of the Success event in the API.

There you go. That's pretty much everything SR does to recover a craft. The main steps are checking if burned up based on current surface velocity, checking parachutes, then checking powered recovery if needed, and finally calculating returns.

- - - Updated - - -

Starting to see parachutes destroyed on the separation from the craft above mach 1. Compensating by not opening the chutes though that was recommended for stage recovery to work.

Also seeing some chutes lost to heat during SSTO high speed sections. Not a direct issue but no chutes makes drop tanks become bombs.

The chutes don't have to be opened, it's just a recommendation since the physics bubble is large enough now for some things to hit the ground. Carefully setting the chute parameters so it doesn't predeploy until close to the ground (like 5km) is one workaround. Or just drop them from high enough up that they won't hit before getting out of physics range.

[Haguruma]

It should work fine with 1.0.4, but I haven't really had a chance to check. I'll take a look at it either tonight or tomorrow (maybe add support for air brakes as well if I can), but it should still be working about as well as in 1.0.2

My update checker and thing gives me a message saying it wont work...but your right it might be wrong...damn im stupid... right? ill try it to see if everything works